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Forrest Richardson

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Priceless...
« on: December 11, 2008, 09:28:31 PM »
I find this stuff fascinating...goats and carp! Wow!

Arkansas Democrat-Gazette
Northwest Edition
Benton County Daily Record
Northwest Arkansas Times

Thursday, December 11, 2008
ANDRA ATTEBERRY Staff Writer andraa@nwanews.com
Posted on Wednesday, December 10, 2008

Brittany Golf Course has been saved from the chopping block

In a consensus, non-binding vote Monday, the Property Owners Association Board of Directors chose to keep the 9-hole course open.

The course had been considered for closure, or kept open through a partnership with The First Tee of Northwest Arkansas. In the latter, First Tee would have paid one half of the costs of operating the course, but would have converted the first hole to a short-iron driving range and the last one to a some type of practice area.

The consensus of the board Monday was to hold off considering the First Tee proposal until they had something in writing.

Instead, they found $112,000 of the $120,000 needed to run the course.

The savings came from using a 4-percent instead of 6-percent inflation rate, from buying three greens rollers instead of a planned six, from not installing disk golf and a canopy at Branchwood Golf Course, and from not replacing a jungle gym at Tiree Park.

They would have found all the money, but the member-accompanied-golf proposed fees were reduced from $28 to $26 for 18 holes. The revenue decrease left the board about $8,000 short.

As for Branchwood, two board members, Andy O'Neil and Anita Werts, wanted to keep the course open and operate it the way it is until a new use plan can be created.

The other board members want to transfer the course to the Recreation Joint Advisory Committee. Chairwoman Roberta Dale said some suggestions she received from members was to make it a family course, where children as young as two and three years old could play golf, make it a feeder to a larger course, open to drivers of small all-terrain-vehicles, make it a disk-golf course and find a way to add golf carts.

Director George DeGroot, board member and liaison to the recreation committee, said the RJAC members and the Branchwood neighbors will meet and develop plans for the course.

In other business, Dale summarized member feedback and suggestions from the five-hour public hearing on Dec. 1.

Property owners representing the Metfield Neighborhood and the Brittany Town House Association turned in a 12-page petition.

Neighbors from Scotsdale also had a petition for the board, but they did not present it since the directors were already leaning toward not closing the Scotsdale Golf Course.

An earlier plan was to close at least the back nine of that course.

One person suggested the board create an independent financial advisory committee. Dale suggested that was the role of the POA Board.

Many people suggested the board reduce staff, and especially the volunteer coordinator position.

People might not have realized the budget calls for 3.9 fewer staff members from last year, Director Bill Johnson said.

The volunteer coordinator position is just not understood by members, General Manager Tommy Bailey said. They don't understand part of the job description is marketing.

One revenue proposal was to require every property owner to buy a photo ID card. Others have suggested this idea, but it is the same as instituting an assessment increase without a vote and can't be done, Bailey said. The POA cannot charge for the privilege of using an amenity, he added.

Another way to find money was to close all the club houses and restaurants. One problem with this proposal is expenses such as property taxes and insurance continue, DeGroot said.

Other members wanted to know why the POA needed a weed harvester for the lakes. The harvester will take the place of grass carp, fish that eat the weeds and also other beneficial grasses.

Bailey compared using carp to eat the weeds to keep the lakes good for fishing and boating, to using goats to mow a golf course.

Members also couldn't understand why the POA stopped using volunteer play managers instead of player assistants to manage the time golfers take to play the course.

The play managers were never really volunteers, Bailey said. They got paid in punches they could use to play golf. The new player's assistants cost $130,000 about $18,000 more than the value the managers received for their golf.

The reason the players assistants program was started was to speed up play, which seems to have worked, because they don't get as many complaints, Bailey said.

Other members suggested Bella Vista was established for retirees and for golfers.

"That's really all we came for" was a statement Johnson heard over and over.

But statistics don't prove that. According to figures obtained from the POA's card-swiping system, 8,500 members played golf from Aug. 1, 2007, through July 31, 2008, far fewer than the 25,000 residents and 36,000 non-resident property owners, Johnson said.

Bella Vistans don't just golf, he said.

"We are a really diverse community," Johnson said.

A question the board will seek to answer during the upcoming year is what do property owners really want for their golf courses and amenities, Dale said.

The budget will be discussed and voted on during the regular board session 6 p.m. Dec. 11 at Riordan Hall. The format will be a little different, Dale said.

The budget will be presented first and then the board will listen to comments, but the board will not vote on the budget until after hearing from members.
— Forrest Richardson, Golf Course Architect/ASGCA
    www.golfgroupltd.com
    www.golframes.com

Bill_McBride

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Re: Priceless...
« Reply #1 on: December 11, 2008, 09:35:13 PM »
Why would a nine-hole course need 6 rollers anyway?

John Moore II

Re: Priceless...
« Reply #2 on: December 11, 2008, 09:46:26 PM »
Why would a nine-hole course need 6 rollers anyway?

I thought that myself. For a nine hole facility, I would think you could get by easily with one green mower and use an old style 7 or 9 reel gang mower for fairways. Have the tees made in such a way that the gang mower could work on those as well. Mow the rough every so often with a farmers bush hog. I could run a golf course on the cheap like that and players not really notice the difference. Same with the rangers they have. They need no more than one starter and one ranger at any given time. I think 130k seems high for that. But I understand why they did it. There really isn't any such thing as a 'volunteer employee.' And people can't be paid 'in kind.' But either way, its a good deal that they were able to keep this course open.

Kyle Harris

Re: Priceless...
« Reply #3 on: December 11, 2008, 09:49:04 PM »
Why would a nine-hole course need 6 rollers anyway?

I thought that myself. For a nine hole facility, I would think you could get by easily with one green mower and use an old style 7 or 9 reel gang mower for fairways. Have the tees made in such a way that the gang mower could work on those as well. Mow the rough every so often with a farmers bush hog. I could run a golf course on the cheap like that and players not really notice the difference. Same with the rangers they have. They need no more than one starter and one ranger at any given time. I think 130k seems high for that. But I understand why they did it. There really isn't any such thing as a 'volunteer employee.' And people can't be paid 'in kind.' But either way, its a good deal that they were able to keep this course open.

You could run it that way until you had about an inch of rain over the course of a day.

John Moore II

Re: Priceless...
« Reply #4 on: December 11, 2008, 10:14:19 PM »
Why would a nine-hole course need 6 rollers anyway?

I thought that myself. For a nine hole facility, I would think you could get by easily with one green mower and use an old style 7 or 9 reel gang mower for fairways. Have the tees made in such a way that the gang mower could work on those as well. Mow the rough every so often with a farmers bush hog. I could run a golf course on the cheap like that and players not really notice the difference. Same with the rangers they have. They need no more than one starter and one ranger at any given time. I think 130k seems high for that. But I understand why they did it. There really isn't any such thing as a 'volunteer employee.' And people can't be paid 'in kind.' But either way, its a good deal that they were able to keep this course open.

You could run it that way until you had about an inch of rain over the course of a day.

Just don't mow that day. I'm not talking about a high end club. Just something bare bones to give people affordable golf.

Kyle Harris

Re: Priceless...
« Reply #5 on: December 11, 2008, 10:17:49 PM »
Not to pick on you John,

But....

What happens when your one green mower breaks down and you need to wait a week for the part?

How much are you willing to pay a mechanic to deal with the gang mower? What about the tractor to tow the gang?

Even affordable golf requires some planning ahead.

Joe Hancock

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Re: Priceless...
« Reply #6 on: December 11, 2008, 10:28:40 PM »
Kyle,

Don't assume that those who get by with less are getting by with less brains.

Joe

" What the hell is the point of architecture and excellence in design if a "clever" set up trumps it all?" Peter Pallotta, June 21, 2016

"People aren't picking a side of the fairway off a tee because of a randomly internally contoured green ."  jeffwarne, February 24, 2017

John Moore II

Re: Priceless...
« Reply #7 on: December 11, 2008, 11:16:51 PM »
Not to pick on you John,

But....

What happens when your one green mower breaks down and you need to wait a week for the part?

How much are you willing to pay a mechanic to deal with the gang mower? What about the tractor to tow the gang?

Even affordable golf requires some planning ahead.
OK, OK, so I spoke a little too quickly. Yes, I understand that you need backups and such. I was just trying to make a point that golf courses can run pretty well with very little, if managed right.

Jon Wiggett

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Re: Priceless...
« Reply #8 on: December 12, 2008, 02:29:04 AM »
Not to pick on you John,

But....

What happens when your one green mower breaks down and you need to wait a week for the part?

How much are you willing to pay a mechanic to deal with the gang mower? What about the tractor to tow the gang?

Even affordable golf requires some planning ahead.

Kyle,

hand mowers are very, very reliable they hardly ever break down. If they do you can always borrow one from the club down the road till it is fixed. Pull along, non motorised gang mowers are even less trouble (if that is possible) than hand mowers. You got me on the tractor though ;)

paul cowley

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Re: Priceless...
« Reply #9 on: December 12, 2008, 05:02:11 AM »
Kyle,

Don't assume that those who get by with less are getting by with less brains.

Joe



Speak for yourself Joe.....you have no idea the IQ fluctuations I have to endure. :(

I also keep a spare house to use when we have power outages so I don't see why its any different with broken greensmowers.

But put me down as one of the Jon/John Gang.
paul cowley...golf course architect/asgca

Mike_Young

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Re: Priceless...
« Reply #10 on: December 12, 2008, 06:39:02 AM »
Not to pick on you John,

But....

What happens when your one green mower breaks down and you need to wait a week for the part?

How much are you willing to pay a mechanic to deal with the gang mower? What about the tractor to tow the gang?

Even affordable golf requires some planning ahead.

Kyle,
I find the unaffordable golf requires much less planning than the affordable....... :)  I think we are seeing that layout before us daily right now.....
"just standing on a corner in Winslow Arizona"

Mike Hendren

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Re: Priceless...
« Reply #11 on: December 12, 2008, 10:27:12 AM »
I grew up playing a nine holes "country club" where monthly dues were $15 in the 1970's.   Our super was a local farmer and he had one hourly employee.  We had a consultant from an established club 45 miles away visit monthly.  We covered the greens with straw each winter and burned down the entire golf course each spring.

Equipment consisted of a tractor, a pull-behind gang mower for the fairways, a Lawn-Boy push mower that we also used around the pool where I life-guarded ($40/week!) and one greens mower.  If something broke down and couldn't be fixed, we'd borrow a replacement from the nearest course 15 miles away.

Bermuda fairways were mowed once or twice a week and the greens two or three times a week.  Bunkers raked once a month whether they needed it or not. 

My dad would pull the gang mowers before a tournament and he and I went out late in the evenings during the event to rake the bunkers.  I also remember pulling plugs and transferring them to the approaches to the tiny greens every other year.

I don't ever remembering being happier.

Mike
Two Corinthians walk into a bar ....

Greg Chambers

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Re: Priceless...
« Reply #12 on: December 12, 2008, 11:34:38 AM »
The first course I ever worked at had one triplex greens mower which would become the tee mower/approach mower every afternoon, one fairway mower, one gang mower for the rough (1942 Parkmaster, I believe), a couple of recycled golf carts, and not much else.  If something broke, we would just borrow something from one of the neighboring courses, or demo something from the distributor, although he know we would never buy anything.  You do what you have to do to get by.  We regularly hosted CGA events, and always had great compliments about course conditioning.  Needless to say, with today's economic pressures of running a golf course, I'm finding that experience to be more and more valuable all the time.
"It's good sportsmanship to not pick up lost golf balls while they are still rolling.”

John Moore II

Re: Priceless...
« Reply #13 on: December 12, 2008, 12:15:49 PM »
You know, I think with the economic situation the way it is, many higher end course Supers and GM's could learn a lot by going to one of the older, family run courses and looking at how they manage the maintenence of the course. Find out how to work on a far lower budget and get nearly the same results. You don't need an army of 25 guys, 10 greens mowers, 5 fairway units, 5 triplex mowers for tees and approaches, and 2 large deck rough mowers to function as a golf course. You could easily get by for far less. (BTW, I am not pulling those numbers out of the air, we had nearly that amount of people and equipment at Mid South, though we may have only had one rough mower)

Jon Wiggett

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Re: Priceless...
« Reply #14 on: December 12, 2008, 12:25:38 PM »
The thing about having no money is there is no chance of buying the wrong stuff to really ruin the course ;)

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