[Kevin Pallier]

There are many examples out there - what are some good one's ? what are some not so good one's ? + why ?

Pictures could help ?

[Sean_A]

Two of my favourites are on #7 at Pennard.  First, they defend the ideal driving line for this drivable par 4 when the hole is front left (the tough position).  Second, they defend the green.  Third, the second bunker acts as a serious deterrent for those getting greedy trying to make a great recovery from the first bunker.  Fourth, these are very penal bunkers just as bunkers should be.  Finally, off the tee these are unobtrusive to the eye.  The are tucked away so as not to disturb the views. 

The bunkers as they appear from the tee. 
 

A closer look.  The flag is just visible over the left edge of the second bunker.


One day you lot will realize that I can use Pennard as an example of practically any great concept in golf design and this is partly why it is a great course.   


Here is a bunker which I really admire because it must be dealt with on the 2nd shot.  It comes into play in frontal wind and firm conditions.  The bunker is larger than it appears from further back - great deception.  It is also a lovely shape.


Here are two more examples.  The bunkers really create two fairways.  The safer left option which leaves a bad angle for a difficult approach.  The more daring option right with oob to flirt with as well, but the angle of approach is much preferable.


Here is a devilish centreline bunker.  In firm conditions it really is perplexing what to do - especially if you haven't hit a good drive which offers a view of the green.  On the other hand, this bunker is reachable in the right conditions off the tee and it is blind over a hill.  This bunker looks totally different than the ones at Pennard, but it functions in much the same way.


This centreline bunker is a totally different kettle of fish.  It harasses the second for those who have mis-hit the drive or if there is a strong head wind. 


I wish I had some good pix of Lederach.  This course has to be the best example of centreline bunkering I have seen (if we take away TOC of course).  KBM really put on a master class of using minimal bunkering to maximum effect.  It seems there are loads more bunkers than there really are because nearly all of them are in the direct line of play.   


Ciao

[Lyne Morrison]

Thanks Kevin - am looking forward to following the responses on this one.

I would be interested to know if anyone has specific comment -- be it positive or negative -- on centreline bunkers that are blind off the tee.

Just gathering opinion.

Nice images Sean - would it be possible to let us know where that third shot is from? - thx.   

Cheers

[Sean_A]

Thanks Kevin - am looking forward to following the responses on this one.

I would be interested to know if anyone has specific comment -- be it positive or negative -- on centreline bunkers that are blind off the tee.

Just gathering opinion.

Nice images Sean - would it be possible to let us know where that third shot is from? - thx.   

Cheers

Lyne

#2 New Zealand


http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,36467.0.html

I don't mind any sort of blind bunker off the tee so long as there is room/width to deal with it in any other way other than a layup.  Of course, if conditions are very firm and windy then theneven those which aren't normally reachable are fine as well.


Ciao

[Andrew Hastie]

During my recent trip to the U.S. I played a couple of holes with bunkers in the middle of the fairway.
Coincidently both are Crenshaw & Coore designs.

The first being the 13th at Friars Head.



East Hampton 3rd hole, I believe it's a copy of a hole at Woking. Notice the two Greens in the photo, the original on the right was causing to many problems with neighbors so they built a new green to the left away from the O.B.

[Jeff_Mingay]

Interesting piece of news, Andrew. I didn't know they were forced to build a new green there, at East Hampton's 3rd hole. Too bad, 'cause I love the original version of the hole... which, as you allude, is similar to the famous fourth at Woking.

[Scott Sander]

It seems mMost centerline bunkers tend to usher you toward a classic risk/reward decision.

Here's one I enjoy because it exists (I believe, anyway) for a slightly different purpose:  It asks the player not how much risk they are ready to take, but rather what shape of approach shot they wish to execute.



It is difficult in the inexcusably poor publicity photo to see the elevation differences between the left and right routes to the green, but they are extremely pronounced.  

The left pathway is a fairway that is largely flat and starts below the grade of the green.  It rises late, demanding a flat-lie-to-elevated-target approach.  Greenside bunkers come into play from this side.  

The right path is very different.  The fairway rises quickly and in concave fashion - as though the ground is shrugging its shoulders toward the green.   The approach will be blind to the player and depending on placement may have you tilting dramatically uphill.  
That sets up a very interesting little paradox:
The green that sets up best from this direction for a shot that runs a bit.  BUT - If you choose the ground game shot, you'll be launching it blindly toward the sky.  It's a very, very cool shot.

It's Trophy Club in Lebanon, Indiana.  Tim Liddy did it.  (I'd be interested to hear from him if he ever posts here these days,  because it's quite likely that I'm dramatically overthinking things on this hole! )

[Anthony Gray]

  12 at TOC would have to be the clasic example. Who has pics?

  Anthony

[Jeff_Mingay]

Here you go, Anthony.

[Anthony Gray]

  Thanks Jeff,

  I'm told the hole used to play in the opposite direction so the bunkers weren't blind in the past.

   Anthony

[Jeff_Mingay]

Anthony,

The Links Trust now puts the reverse loop in play during certain times of the year. And, you're right, these bunkers at 12 are much more visible coming from the opposite direction!

[Adam Clayman]

Examples of improper use are out there. Their size and placement appear to be the reason I consider them improper. Making the bunkers too big, without enough width on either side, mitigates their function and justification by removing viable options.

[hhuffines]

The 18th at Banff has a nasty elevated bunker which tests the second shot on the par 5.  One of the best I've played.

We put one in the center of our 18th hole layup area here in NC and our members had fits... of course, most of them don't get around much in golfing terms.

[Ally Mcintosh]

  12 at TOC would have to be the clasic example. Who has pics?

  Anthony

Surely 16 at The Old Course is THE classic example?

[Michael Rossi]

Here are a couple that make you stop and think about what club to hit. The tee shot on hole 2 is a pest, prevailing wind from left to right and slightly in the face. It will cost you a shot if you are in it, as it is intended. The tee shot on 17 a par 5 asks you to make a decision, as well as the lay up. 100 yards to the center of the green is between the twin bunkers in the fairway. the photo is taken from approx 250 yards out.

[Michael Wharton-Palmer]

Wasn't it Mackenzie who stated hazards are there to be avoided wherever they are...I can go along with that.
If the player knows the hazard is there play around it..that is strategy.
Now of course that can become abused, but in theory I have no problems with Bunkers in the middle of fairways.
That picture of the New Zealand just empahsises how much I need to play there though...what a great look.

I would much rather play a course with bunkers in the fairway than one of those "florida" course with lakes everywhere...

[Anthony Gray]

Anthony,

The Links Trust now puts the reverse loop in play during certain times of the year. And, you're right, these bunkers at 12 are much more visible coming from the opposite direction!

  Jeff,

  Have you played TOC in the other direction?

  Anthony

[Anthony Gray]

  12 at TOC would have to be the clasic example. Who has pics?

  Anthony

Surely 16 at The Old Course is THE classic example?

  Alley,

  Probably not centerline, the bunker behind the first two is the sneeky one.


    Anthony

[Jason Topp]

I can think of two holes with blind centerline bunkers and, even though the idea seems unfair, I really enjoy each hole - #12 at the Old Course and #13 at Big Fish in WI.

[Anthony_Nysse]

During my recent trip to the U.S. I played a couple of holes with bunkers in the middle of the fairway.
Coincidently both are Crenshaw & Coore designs.

The first being the 12th at Friars Head.

How about the 13th at Friars Head....?

Tony Nysse
Asst. Supt.
Colonial CC
Ft. Worth, TX

[Ally Mcintosh]

There is a blind centreline bunker on No.12 at Portmarnock Links that just confuses me no end... I don't like it at all... It is back to front (i.e. the lip is at the back and the front opening to the green is open and in no way penal) so that you can actually almost fall in to it without noticing it... Not to say it's small... It is in effect a cross bunker because the fairway pinches at that point... Which is incidentally about 330 yards off the tee so as to catch the shorter hitters second shot and not trouble the low handicapper.

I don't mind them in principle but I really don't like this one... Anyone know it?... Not even sure it wasn't an addition to the design after opening either... Maybe an over zealous greenkeeper.

[Tyler Kearns]

Wasn't it Mackenzie who stated hazards are there to be avoided wherever they are...I can go along with that.

Michael,

Is this the quote you were thinking about, “There is no such thing as a misplaced bunker.  Regardless of where a bunker may be, it is the business of the player to avoid it” (Donald Ross - Golf Has Never Failed Me, pg. 75)

TK

[john_stiles]

This is an early photo of ANGC that I have posted for many years now whenever the topic of centerline or cross bunkering comes around again.      It shows the old centerline hazards that no longer exist at ANGC.      The 11th hole (not in the picture) also had a centerline bunker.

The 14th certainly had one heck of a hazard along the fairway to avoid.

Even the 18th hole had fairway maintained on each side of the bunker.

I noticed Golfweek snagged this photo a few weeks back for their publication.

Anyway, just posting so new folks would see.

[Mark Bourgeois]

"Most of the bunkers [TOC] have been left where nature placed them and others have originated from the winds and the rains enlarging divot marks left by the players and some of them possibly by the green keepers converting those hollows where most players congregated into bunkers owing to the difficulty of keeping them free from divot marks The bunkers at St Andrews are thus placed in positions where players are most likely to go in fact in the precise positions which the ordinary Green Committee would suggest be filled up.

"This is a significant fact and tends to show that many of our existing ideas in regard to hazards have been erroneous. Mr John L Low pointed out years ago that no hazard is unfair wherever it is placed and this particularly applies if the hazard is visible as it should be obvious that if a player sees a hazard in front of him and promptly planks his ball into it he has chosen the wrong spot."

"Golf Architecture: Economy in Course Construction and Green-keeping," (1920) By A. Mackenzie, pp 20-21.

[John Moore II]

The Dye Course at PGA Golf Club has at least two centerline bunkers that I can remember, one on 5 and the other on 17. But are very deep and if you manage to go in one, its pretty much a pitch out and try to get up and down for par from 175 yards. Both work very well. I don't have pictures.

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