How do you prefer to tip?

[Eric Smith]

Good post Dave.

My .2,

I spent much of my young adult life working at golf clubs and learned a lot about tipping in general.  One thing's for certain, like everything else in life it's different for everybody.  How can there possibly be a standard when everyone has their own about everything in which they do? jmo

Those youngsters at the bag drop were me 15-20 years ago and I appreciate so much the fact that my best friends in life are the guys who worked at the drop and in the shop with me back then and I think we all turned out to be pretty good dudes.  So I usually enjoy the couple of minutes or whatever talking with them, asking for a good restaurant recommendation, etc...those guys have my respect so I give them a fin for the effort.  Above and beyond, (you know it when you see it) always gets a bonus.  Those guys at Forest Dunes last summer come to mind - I like that operation a lot.  There are plenty of folks who don't share my outlook, believe me, so in the end it evens itself out I guess. 

But don't be down on the guy with the wet towel, it's the club that has put him there to do the job that he's doing. 

I think they'll be better off in life having had that experience, with both the good and the bad (tippers).

[Kyle Harris]

There is no doubt that tipping well goes a LONG WAY.  As a member of the "hospitality industry" we live on tips.  It's obvious that tips do need to be earned, but i think that tipping is essential.  Now Mr. Pink may not agree, but when you take "care" of somebody they will take "care" of you.  It's rare that I do not tip, but sometimes a non-tip is warranted.  

For instance, if heading to your favorite watering hole on a busy saturday night when the place is packed and it's taking 20 minutes to get a drink, when it's you're turn, depending on the size and amount of your drink order, you should always overtip, always.  Rest assured the next time he sees you standing on the rail waiting, you're his next order.

What's wrong with giving the kid who grabbed your bag a couple dollars, or even just one dollar?  Shit, I'm the kinda guy who will take my clubs off a cart, tell the guy I'm all set and still flip a few dollars.  If I see a guy really doing work on grooves, probably warrants a $5.  If I leave the cart all dirtied up, Ill leave a few dollars in the scorecard holder.  People appreciate these things, and if you're out playing golf chances are you've got a few extra dollars to hook somebody.  

What's wrong is that it creates a demand to pay that kid a wage that I'm not willing to pay for because it's a service I do not want.

[Eric Smith]

What's wrong is that it creates a demand to pay that kid a wage that I'm not willing to pay for because it's a service I do not want.

Love.  Guys at the shed vs. guys at the clubhouse.

Seriously though, there's no right or wrong, it is what it is.  They are doing their job.  If they decided they didn't want to wipe guests clubs, guess what? - they'd be fired.

[Chris Kane]

I think its a stupid custom. 

Restaurants, hotels, hairdressers, golf clubs and bars should charge all-inclusive prices which include service.  They should then pay their employees a fair wage - like they do in most other countries in the world. 

[Matt OBrien]

What's wrong is that it creates a demand to pay that kid a wage that I'm not willing to pay for because it's a service I do not want.
[/quote]

Half the time your not paying for the golf that you pare playing anyway kyle so what is it to give the kid 5 bucks? I think thats crazy that you go to a course for free and are not willing to tip someone.

[jeffwarne]

There is no doubt that tipping well goes a LONG WAY.  As a member of the "hospitality industry" we live on tips.  It's obvious that tips do need to be earned, but i think that tipping is essential.  Now Mr. Pink may not agree, but when you take "care" of somebody they will take "care" of you.  It's rare that I do not tip, but sometimes a non-tip is warranted.  

For instance, if heading to your favorite watering hole on a busy saturday night when the place is packed and it's taking 20 minutes to get a drink, when it's you're turn, depending on the size and amount of your drink order, you should always overtip, always.  Rest assured the next time he sees you standing on the rail waiting, you're his next order.

What's wrong with giving the kid who grabbed your bag a couple dollars, or even just one dollar?  Shit, I'm the kinda guy who will take my clubs off a cart, tell the guy I'm all set and still flip a few dollars.  If I see a guy really doing work on grooves, probably warrants a $5.  If I leave the cart all dirtied up, Ill leave a few dollars in the scorecard holder.  People appreciate these things, and if you're out playing golf chances are you've got a few extra dollars to hook somebody.  

What's wrong is that it creates a demand to pay that kid a wage that I'm not willing to pay for because it's a service I do not want.

Kyle,
What if I would prefer the bunkers not be raked?
Isn't that creating a demand for a service I don't want?
How is that any different?

[Greg Chambers]

There is no doubt that tipping well goes a LONG WAY.  As a member of the "hospitality industry" we live on tips.  It's obvious that tips do need to be earned, but i think that tipping is essential.  Now Mr. Pink may not agree, but when you take "care" of somebody they will take "care" of you.  It's rare that I do not tip, but sometimes a non-tip is warranted.  

For instance, if heading to your favorite watering hole on a busy saturday night when the place is packed and it's taking 20 minutes to get a drink, when it's you're turn, depending on the size and amount of your drink order, you should always overtip, always.  Rest assured the next time he sees you standing on the rail waiting, you're his next order.

What's wrong with giving the kid who grabbed your bag a couple dollars, or even just one dollar?  Shit, I'm the kinda guy who will take my clubs off a cart, tell the guy I'm all set and still flip a few dollars.  If I see a guy really doing work on grooves, probably warrants a $5.  If I leave the cart all dirtied up, Ill leave a few dollars in the scorecard holder.  People appreciate these things, and if you're out playing golf chances are you've got a few extra dollars to hook somebody.  

What's wrong is that it creates a demand to pay that kid a wage that I'm not willing to pay for because it's a service I do not want.

Kyle,
What if I would prefer the bunkers not be raked?
Isn't that creating a demand for a service I don't want?
How is that any different?

the guy raking the bunkers isn't standing around doing nothing and expecting to make a tip while standing around doing nothing

[Cabell Ackerly]

While I don't expect a tip, when I do receive a tip from someone I make sure to go above and beyond every time I see them in the future. This is obviously a different situation than the public/resort course where you give the bag boy money and never see them again.

Also, the people who occasionally do give me a tip are the people that I prioritize anyways because they are the ones who treat me well and actually show a genuine interest in me. Its more the fact that they are nice people than the fact that they also happened to give me a tip.

Robert - you may find that if you go above and beyond for everyone (not just those who tip you), you may get a raise or a promotion. Priortizing based on those who treat you the best may backfire at some point.

[Kalen Braley]

I didn't think this thread would last this long, but its becoming clear each side is trenching in.  So perhaps I should elaborate more on my position.

I don't have a fundamental problem with having a bag snatcher, club cleaner, bag guy, etc.  These guys are just doing thier job, I get it and I'm perfectly fine with that.

When it turns me off is when I'm expected to use thier services, and I'm not talking about privates, because thats a completely different thing.  I've been to a few CCFADs where I've had to explain and be the bad guy that I'm not interested in having them carry my clubs inside or wipe them off afterwards.  And its usually followed by an odd look, even a few dirty ones from time to time. I understand they're just trying to do thier job, but I shouldn't need to be subject to pissy behavoir from the clubhouse crew. A big part of playing golf is having a relaxing time and not being bothered with stupid stuff like this.

While most are usually good about it, its like anything else where a few bad ones can leave a bad taste in the mouth the next times around.

Furthermore with cost cutting being pretty much a necessity these days, it seems like these are indeed the 1st positions that can be elmiminated without having a noticeable drop-off in golf value as Kyle has alluded to.

[Kyle Harris]

There is no doubt that tipping well goes a LONG WAY.  As a member of the "hospitality industry" we live on tips.  It's obvious that tips do need to be earned, but i think that tipping is essential.  Now Mr. Pink may not agree, but when you take "care" of somebody they will take "care" of you.  It's rare that I do not tip, but sometimes a non-tip is warranted.  

For instance, if heading to your favorite watering hole on a busy saturday night when the place is packed and it's taking 20 minutes to get a drink, when it's you're turn, depending on the size and amount of your drink order, you should always overtip, always.  Rest assured the next time he sees you standing on the rail waiting, you're his next order.

What's wrong with giving the kid who grabbed your bag a couple dollars, or even just one dollar?  Shit, I'm the kinda guy who will take my clubs off a cart, tell the guy I'm all set and still flip a few dollars.  If I see a guy really doing work on grooves, probably warrants a $5.  If I leave the cart all dirtied up, Ill leave a few dollars in the scorecard holder.  People appreciate these things, and if you're out playing golf chances are you've got a few extra dollars to hook somebody.  

What's wrong is that it creates a demand to pay that kid a wage that I'm not willing to pay for because it's a service I do not want.

Kyle,
What if I would prefer the bunkers not be raked?
Isn't that creating a demand for a service I don't want?
How is that any different?

Jeff,

Talk to your green committee and the superintendent will move that labor elsewhere. The bunkers are raked because that is the expectation set by the club, in other words, what the club demands. Furthermore, you can leave the bunker without raking it - if you really desire.

When an owner sets up a back drop, how often is it to match a demand? When/where do you get to actually express your opinion on the matter?

I tell you where, by not using the service, nor tipping.


Matt,

You have a pretty odd idea of how much I spend to play golf, in fact, the only times I've played for free have been at Huntingdon Valley and Five Ponds all season. Furthermore, my opinion is based on the fact that SOMEONE is paying for that kid to be there, and the only way he gets to vote with his wallet is to not tip.

[Tim Bert]

Good post Dave.

My .2,

I spent much of my young adult life working at golf clubs and learned a lot about tipping in general.  One thing's for certain, like everything else in life it's different for everybody.  How can there possibly be a standard when everyone has their own about everything in which they do? jmo

Those youngsters at the bag drop were me 15-20 years ago and I appreciate so much the fact that my best friends in life are the guys who worked at the drop and in the shop with me back then and I think we all turned out to be pretty good dudes.  So I usually enjoy the couple of minutes or whatever talking with them, asking for a good restaurant recommendation, etc...those guys have my respect so I give them a fin for the effort.  Above and beyond, (you know it when you see it) always gets a bonus.  Those guys at Forest Dunes last summer come to mind - I like that operation a lot.  There are plenty of folks who don't share my outlook, believe me, so in the end it evens itself out I guess. 

But don't be down on the guy with the wet towel, it's the club that has put him there to do the job that he's doing. 

I think they'll be better off in life having had that experience, with both the good and the bad (tippers).

I'd say that .2 is about 18 cents more than any of us asked for.  You must just be trying to show what a good tipper you are.   

[Eric Smith]

I'd say that .2 is about 18 cents more than any of us asked for.  You must just be trying to show what a good tipper you are.   

"I'd say that .2 is about 18 cents more than any of us asked for."  My apologies to the collective.  <obligatory winking emoticon>.  I shared my experience on Anthony's thread as one who once earned tips in addition to my salary at a golf course.  In that post I stated that I think it's ok to tip the cart attendant as a counter opinion (and if you read carefully, I said that imo there's no right or wrong, everyone's different).  If I want to tip someone five dollars after spending $90 to play, I am not bragging that I'm a good tipper, are you serious?  It's 5 bucks.  It is not about me, I'm advocating that those guys jobs do have value, like say a caddy or a sommelier or an assistant burger flipper.  How many guys on this forum, be it head professional, 1st assistant, GM, whatever, were a cart attendant at some time in their career?  Ask John Farrell at Harbour Town if he thinks his outside staff is inconsequential to the success of his operation.

You see Tim, plenty of folks gave me tips of $5 back then.  I liked that job and it was rewarding to me.  And when or if folks came off of 18 and just wanted to be left alone, we gladly did just that, no problem.  It wasn't an expectation (for me) to be tipped.  It happened regularly, which was nice, but the idea was to help the folks on their way and then get that cart back into the rotation.  A 6-8 hours shift, then time to play golf.  We were too young to feel or even understand the contempt that is ofttimes expressed when golfers opine on the internet.

Am I up to what, 36 cents now?  I'll stop.

[M. Shea Sweeney]

Since this thread is about tipping...

I have worked at a few different golf courses, and been to a few different courses.

The best clubs or courses were those where tips were accepted without any problem.

Maybe because the people I play with and work with only give and except tips, or I play some pretty good places.

Mike

[Sean_A]

I find this thread fascinating

Here in New Zealand, we dont tip.

-We store our own clubs at home
-We get our own clubs out of our cars
-We then take our own clubs onto the course or practice area
-We carry/pull our own clubs around the course
-We clean our own clubs when finished with them
-We have a beer after our game and simply pay the cost of it and not launch into trying to calculate a further 15-18% fee on top of it

Maybe we are just simple people over here or are we just multi talented enough to handle the jobs it appears it requires 5 separate people to undertake.

Could there possibly be a direct correlation between this attitude of doing things for yourself and the fact that our average yearly subscription is NZ$400 (US$250)?

This thread highlights for me what is wrong with the game of golf in the US. It worries me that many other countries take their lead from you as to what standards should be set /desired.

If possible, can someone please crunch the numbers on what it costs to play a round of golf at a course if you combine the green fee, caddie fee, caddie tip, bag drop guy tip, shoe shine guy tip, club cleaner dude tip and all other hidden costs.

Amen.

And with such a structure maybe golf pros could get back to growing and teaching the game instead of babysitting staffs of 10-15
 who provide the services which have little or nothing to do with the actual game-and have the added benfit of not having to track down Mrs. Befuvnick's head cover(s) which she's so sure the bagroom staff covets enough to "steal".

This too is my problem with the system.  It just adds layers and layers of cost which are of no benefit and I think it helps encourage an attitude of excess spending elsewhere in the club and on the course.  But I spose folks know what they are walking into when they join a club. 

As an aside, I think of the restaurant staff as very different because they do provide a service I want/need.  Food is more important to me than kids wanting a tip for handling my bag - and I don't want them handling my bag anyway (but if they want to clean & polish my shoes I will tip them handsomely - this is a service I do like because I am a lazy bastard).  That said, tipping waiters has gotten out of control.  I mean to give a guy 15-20% for bring food to the table and opening a few bottles is a bit loopy - especially when you are in a pricey joint.  As a sort of compromise while in the States I tend to work on 20% of the food bill.  I don't tip the tax and I usually give $1 per bottle rather than 20% of the cost of the wine.  I just can't see giving a guy a fiver for opening a $25 dollar bottle of wine. For crying out loud, a $25 bottle of wine likely costs $8 plus a few for storage time/space so I ain't giving a guy 50% of the value of that wine as a tip.  If we are a large party and the waiter has been exceptional, I often go to 25%.

Ciao

[JLahrman]

IWhen it turns me off is when I'm expected to use thier services, and I'm not talking about privates, because thats a completely different thing.  I've been to a few CCFADs where I've had to explain and be the bad guy that I'm not interested in having them carry my clubs inside or wipe them off afterwards.  And its usually followed by an odd look, even a few dirty ones from time to time. I understand they're just trying to do thier job, but I shouldn't need to be subject to pissy behavoir from the clubhouse crew. A big part of playing golf is having a relaxing time and not being bothered with stupid stuff like this.

I agree, but the problem is not that it's being implied that you should tip, but that you're having a service that you don't want all but mandated to you.

There is a case for flat fees as well, but one thing about a tip system is that it gives an employee a reason to hustle and do his/her best.  I realize that should happen with a flat fee but then again...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20081210/od_nm/us_incentive

[Kalen Braley]

JAL,

You make an excellent point there, it does feel at times like its mandated and it shouldn't be such.

As for the point about "hustle".   Well maybe I'm just old school, but I always thought that one hustled so they could keep thier job, not to get extra tips.  And most places that are good to work for will reward hustle in the form of pay raises and bonuses anyways.

[Will MacEwen]

When it turns me off is when I'm expected to use thier services, and I'm not talking about privates, because thats a completely different thing.  I've been to a few CCFADs where I've had to explain and be the bad guy that I'm not interested in having them carry my clubs inside or wipe them off afterwards.  And its usually followed by an odd look, even a few dirty ones from time to time. I understand they're just trying to do thier job, but I shouldn't need to be subject to pissy behavoir from the clubhouse crew. A big part of playing golf is having a relaxing time and not being bothered with stupid stuff like this.

I don't like someone cleaning my clubs without asking.  Let me kindly decline a polite offer.  I will be much happier and more inclined to tip someone.

Don't squeegee my windshield, wipe my child's face, give my dog a treat or touch my clubs without asking.  They are not part of the public domain.

[Jeff Fortson]

I work one day a week at a course here in the Coachella Valley in outside services so that I have a place I can play and practice for free and also make a little extra cash for things like x-mas and therapies for my son.  We get paid $8/hour and we make about an extra $5-$10 a day in tournament gratuity bonuses.

We have many jokes and sayings in our cart barn lexicon.  Here are some of our favorites...

We call people that don't tip one of two things a) a "Peeler", someone peeling out when they bring their cart in to try and get away from the staff so they don't have to tip.  They generally use lines like "Oh no, I'm good", or "My clubs don't deserve to be cleaned", or "I'm in a rush, i'll get you next time".  b) We also call some of them "Heismann Trophy Winners" because when you approach their cart they jump off, unlatch their bag by themselves and make a dash by you in the Heismann pose except instead of carrying a ball they are carrying their bag.

We have a tree we call the "Change Tree" where all the coins go flying into when someone tips in metal.  Sometimes we "accidentally" drop the coins so they make a loud cling-clang noise and act like beggars picking up the change as if it were our lifeblood.

We have a nickname for our course...  we call it "Help yourself Hills" and our slogan is "If it aint for free, it aint for me". 

Please understand that most of this is just to have fun with our co-workers.  Almost no one actually hears any of this.  Only the brazen few get our full treatment.  Over 80% of all the players tip and they are very generous and friendly and I can tell you that most of the kids working outside services greatly appreciate anything thrown their way.  Typically, we consider a $5 tip for cleaning 2 bags, picking up the mess left in the cart and getting the valeted car up and loaded with their equipment to be a fair tip.  If it's just a single bag that will be carried away by the customer then a $2 tip is considered to be our industry minimum. 

So if you are in the Palm Desert area and playing at one of the local resort type courses make sure to tip or I might just give you the "Heismann" on GCA.   


Jeff F.


P.S.  We average @ $100 in tips per day (averaged through summer and winter)

[Matt_Ward]

Gents:

I used to work in the service industry a long time ago and frankly when I hear this inane and ignorant speech about if people hustle they will be rewarded with more cash and less on tips as nothing more than a dodge ball rationale because whether certain guys want to admit or not but there's a fair percentage of people who are

C-H-E-A-P

As in big time !

If any of these big tippers ever did peel off a Lincoln or Hamilton the sunlight would blind good ole Abe and Al.

The only worse thing to these folks beside being called cheap would be to say their johnson is the size of their pinkie.

One other thing for those "big time spenders" to consider -- if you have a caddie and they provide exceptional services -- the tip should be at least half what the actual carry fee is. So if it's $50 then the tip would be $25 and so forth.

The problem I have people lecturing about don't do this to my bag or other such drivel is that very few of them have ever been in the service industry themselves.

One other note for all your big time spenders - the people at a club who are religiously cheap -- especially the private ones -- are well known to all club personnel. I laugh when I see such short arms / long pants folks think that the personnel are in the dark on such matters.

David N:

Just a quick word on what you offered -- well said indeed !

[John_Cullum]

I can tell you that most of the kids working outside services greatly appreciate anything thrown their way. 

Except for the coinage they throw at the tree

[Kyle Harris]

What's wrong with giving the kid who grabbed your bag a couple dollars, or even just one dollar?  Shit, I'm the kinda guy who will take my clubs off a cart, tell the guy I'm all set and still flip a few dollars.  If I see a guy really doing work on grooves, probably warrants a $5.  If I leave the cart all dirtied up, Ill leave a few dollars in the scorecard holder.  People appreciate these things, and if you're out playing golf chances are you've got a few extra dollars to hook somebody.  

It is this attitude that allows course developers to:

A: Build golf courses which do not fit the site, are routed through houses and have miles between the green and the next tee.

B: Charge triple digit green fees for a double digit golf experience - since the "apparent need" for all this outside service BS exists.

And this is where golf suffers in the eyes of those outside the game. Nobody needs to worry about tipping the guys down at the Y to play a pick up game of basketball or to work out. You don't have urchins hanging around beer league softball games carrying equipment for a few extra bucks.

I'm tired of having to run the gauntlet of service between my car and the first tee - just let me take the bag myself, walk into the pro shop and pay my green fee, and walk to the first tee and play the game without feeling guilty for not hiring someone to do something I don't want done.

What's even better is a place like Lederach where the bag boys are positioned in such a way that you risk running them over on the way to the parking lot. All this at a MUNI, too.

[Scott Stearns]

agree with the guy who said dont touch my clubs...

1-my clubs are clean at the end of the round, because a clean clubface creates more spin.  you want to clean my clubs, do it at the range where i need it.

the club wipedown is a service created by clueless, non golf management and enjoyed by clueless, often high handicap golfers, many of whom use cart bags, carry 100+ golf balls, and often my favorite accessory--the cooler/6 pack

2-i HATE the "you never touch your clubs" service offering--i carry enough balls to get around the course one time, and only the stuff i'll need that day (sunsreen, umbrella, winter gloves) because i grew up carrying my own bag, do it 5-6 times/year, and dont want caddies carrying any more of my junk than they absolutely have to.  i need to reload before my bag is snatched away and buried under Al Czervik's travel cover.

i also hate looking around for my bag while some schmo has lost it/sent it to the Fazio course instead of the Hills course/stopped to chat with the cart girl.  I usually have 20 min to warm up ('cause i planned to have 45 min and was late leaving the office), and i like hitting balls before i play.

having said that, the guy doing the job didnt make these stupid service decisions, the management did.  so i always offer a few dollars and hand the guy my trash or say thanks, but the clubs stay with me.

[Matt OBrien]

I think what Matt ward said was 100% correct. The people who complain most about tipping people have never worked in the service industry. This is for the cheap people who dont tip When you go to a resteraunt to eat,do you serve yourself so that you dont have to tip a waitress or waiter? Do you walk in to the kitchen and pick up your meal? Well thats the same idea when you walk past that bagboy and ignore him. Hes your waiter who will clean your clubs and your cart and it wont kill you to give him 5 bucks.

Jeff mentioned excuses that members use to get out of tipping and it just cracks me up that no matter where you go people use the same excuses. Ill get you next time im in a rush, thier clean dont worry about them(meanwhile they have 5 lbd of mud on them),Let me go get change.  Its all BS. If any of you have used that line then you have no balls. If you feel that you shouldnt tip the kid then tell him to his face. Next time hopefully he ignores you and you get your clubs yourself.

[Kyle Harris]

I think what Matt ward said was 100% correct. The people who complain most about tipping people have never worked in the service industry. This is for the cheap people who dont tip When you go to a resteraunt to eat,do you serve yourself so that you dont have to tip a waitress or waiter? Do you walk in to the kitchen and pick up your meal? Well thats the same idea when you walk past that bagboy and ignore him. Hes your waiter who will clean your clubs and your cart and it wont kill you to give him 5 bucks.

Jeff mentioned excuses that members use to get out of tipping and it just cracks me up that no matter where you go people use the same excuses. Ill get you next time im in a rush, thier clean dont worry about them(meanwhile they have 5 lbd of mud on them),Let me go get change.  Its all BS. If any of you have used that line then you have no balls. If you feel that you shouldnt tip the kid then tell him to his face. Next time hopefully he ignores you and you get your clubs yourself.

Matt,

Restaurants and Golf Courses are MUCH different beasts. The bag boy is NOT my waiter, as I am capable of taking my bag to the first tee without his direction. In a restaurant, wait staff are there to organize several orders for the kitchen staff. Furthermore, table service and kitchen service are actual skills. Removing clubs from my trunk, is not.

If you didn't want to be served, you'd stay at home to eat. Last time I tried to play golf in my house... well, I'll show you the hole in the rug next time you're over.

[M. Shea Sweeney]

why is it that all the "good guys" tip?