What is Slow Play?

[Mike_Cirba]

Slow play is watching someone in the group ahead of you take three practice swings and then dribble one fifty yards.

Slow play is watching someone in the group ahead drop to a kneeling position to survey what is obviously a putt for no better than double-bogey.

I could probably go on all night...

[Charlie Goerges]

Slow Play? Seventh grade production of Oedipus Rex

[Lloyd_Cole]

Tim

I'm with you.
I've walked off the course a few times because I can't do it. If my playing partners can't at least make an effort to be ready to play when it's their turn, and we have a hole open in front of us, I tense up quickly and I'm better off going home. Nobody likes waiting, but I prefer it to that.

So to answer the initial question - slow play really has little to do with how long the round takes. If your group is slower than those behind and there's a hole free ahead you let them through. How often do I see this? Not often. Slow play is not about taking a lot of shots. Slow play is not being ready to play when it's your turn, or not playing ready golf when it's not a tournament. It's sometimes not even knowing who's turn it is - how often do you see the 4 way stop sign looks in a group? A lot of it is down to folk just not knowing the rules of the game... The rules are complicated but there is a cool Tom Watson book which takes two nights to read. That's not asking much.  Slow play is not thinking about your shot until you're over the ball, not getting a yardage, or an idea of it until you're at your ball. Not checking the pin position on 5 when you passed the green when playing 2. It's having a preshot routine that doesn't make you any better. It's marking the ball when it is clean and not interfering with anyone else's line. We all know what it is and I'm sure I'm guilty of a few crimes - I try to make up for my slowness getting lined up by always being ready and walking bloody fast.  I should add - I like to walk fast. I should also add that I've enjoyed many 5 hour rounds. Twenty years ago you would never have herd me say anything like that, but it is different over here.

All I know is that I prefer to be behind the slow group than to be in the slow group.  While for some being in the slow group may mean less technical waiting, since it is your group holding folks up, I get extremely frustrated when my group is holding people up and I can't control the situation.  I become rushed, which doesn't speed up the slow players, and makes me play worse and actually slow down.  It dampens my fun factor 10x.

At least being behind the slow group, I can sit back and daydream or soak in the surroundings or talk to the others in the group or do something to take my mind off of it.

Of course, best of all is to be in front of the slow group.  No pressure from behind and play at your leisure!

[Lloyd_Cole]

For a grotesque generalization,I think the biggest problem is the situation of having 4-somes of "good" players,4-somes of "bad" players,and 4-somes of some combination good/bad mixed in together on a tee sheet.

I'd like to second this and I think it should be stopped.
I play a few open singles and 2 balls each year and who I play with depends on who calls me up. But generally the scratch to 4 handicap players keep to themselves. I played a singles late summer and our group were all around 5 or 6. The group behind were all around scratch. It makes no sense. It's a friendly game and play with your pals, but don't initiate a practice which is bound to cause tension.

[Mike_Cirba]

Slow Play? Seventh grade production of Oedipus Rex

12th grade production of "Fiddler on the Roof".

[Rich Goodale]

It is like Justice Potter Stewart's definition of pornography--you can't define it , but you know it when you see it.

Goodale's corollary--if you can't see it you are it

[John Kavanaugh]

Where's JohnK (the ornery one, not the thoughtful one ) ranting about folks wanting to play too fast?

Playing too slow or too fast are both equally as rude as talking during movies.  If you have ten groups playing at a 4 hour pace and one group shows up wishing to play in 2.5 hours they will eventually cause each group to take an extra half hour letting them go through.  Sure it doesn't take a half hour to let a group go through but to allow one group to go through ten causes such a residual effect that an added half hour is not unreasonable.

This becomes a simple question...Should ten groups suffer for the pleasure of one?

[Anthony Gray]

Where's JohnK (the ornery one, not the thoughtful one ) ranting about folks wanting to play too fast?

Playing too slow or too fast are both equally as rude as talking during movies.  If you have ten groups playing at a 4 hour pace and one group shows up wishing to play in 2.5 hours they will eventually cause each group to take an extra half hour letting them go through.  Sure it doesn't take a half hour to let a group go through but to allow one group to go through ten causes such a residual effect that an added half hour is not unreasonable.

This becomes a simple question...Should ten groups suffer for the pleasure of one?

          I never thought that playing too fast was a negative. But if you are pushing the group infront of you and making them unconfortable this makes since. Great insight gentleman golfer.


     Anthony

[Rob Rigg]

Slow play is a golfing reality at every course for all the reasons discussed unless groups are sufficiently spaced so a faster group, or groups over the course of a round, can play through a slower group without causing the ripple effect that JK alluded to.

Of course, the slow group(s) need to do the right thing and let people play through which is often a major issue.

[Tim Bert]

John K

It clearly works both ways so I agree with you. At a home course it comes down to knowing the course and expectations for a certain time.

It would be absurd for me to show up at my course and expect to play in less than 3 hours as a single or a twosome in the middle of the late morning / early afternoon weekend crowd. I should either pair up as a foursome, reset my expectations for pace, or go home and do something else.

It would be equally rude for some guy that never plays weekend mornings to show up with slow guests and drain the life out of the course without letting others play through. The morning crows at our course is fairly consistent and generally expects to play in 3.5.

Finally if I do show up as a twosome in the late afternoon, I don't think it is overly rude to play through one or two groups over the course of 18 if traffic isn't all that busy. As long as it is done in a mutually agreeable manner. I for one hate playing through and look for opportunities to avoid it or join up with a reasonably paced twosome or threesome the rare rounds I head out alone.

When not at your home course I say go with the flow. Don't play too quickly or slowly. Just keep up.

The most important thing to understand, home or away, is that it shouldn't always be about "me."

[John Kavanaugh]

I am glad that we can agree that playing through or getting played through is a distraction to a nice day.  I will never play though someone when the choice of skipping the hole and going around is available which is the case 90% of the time.  If there is not space in front of the group slowing you down it is fair to assume that they are keeping pace and should not be disturbed by your impatience.

What concerns me more than anything is if we are discussing playing golf by the rules where you putt out until each bet is completed be it match or medal play.  People who are on a golf course not competing have no more rights than the kid out at a park heaving threes on a public basketball court.  When competitors show up either get in the game or go home because someone took the time to finance, design and build a field of play and that goal your daddy put up in the backyard is rusting away.  One of the great things about the game of golf is that it takes away the chicken or the egg argument of having friends or playing with friends.  Join up, putt out or shut up should be tattooed across the forehead of every single who complains about slow play at public courses.

[David Stamm]

Slow play is JB Holmes.

[Tom Huckaby]

I think Goodale's corollary is genius.

Goodale's corollary--if you can't see it you are it

(so you don't have to go back to find it, if you are interested)

[Charlie Goerges]

Slow Play? Seventh grade production of Oedipus Rex

12th grade production of "Fiddler on the Roof".

Good one. The hard part is coming up with a suitably unlikely play for the given group.

Mine is still slower  .

[JMEvensky]

I think the problem is unsolvable because the people who've recently come to the game,while thinking that they're playing golf,aren't golfers.I think the problem will only get worse as the "orthodox" become fewer.

All too frequently,their reason for playing is solely for social/business networking.The golf course is just another type of "experience".Things that I was taught as a junior golfer,the etiquette of the game,are neither known nor of any interest to these people.

[Matt_Ward]

Check out Joe P's discussion on PB inside the curren tissue of Golf Mag -- you pay nearly $500 to play 18 holes and after you get stuck for six hours and change -- there is not

ONE MARSHALL !!!

To help speed things along.

The problem with PB and other such places -- in fact, throw in Whistling Straits also in that hopper -- is that THEY RUSH -- REPEAT AFTER ME ...

R-U-S-H

for you to pull your credit card out of your pocket to pay the fee then do their Rip van Wrinkle impersonation when it comes time to make sure your actual round is enjoyed with a steady pace of play.

Always love that routine -- when will people demand otherwise ?

[Tom Huckaby]

Matt:

I do not have Golf Magazine handy, but I tend to take Joe Passov with an ocean of salt.  He's more the Howard Stern of golf than he is an astute observer.

And regarding Pebble Beach, well... in the thread on Slowest Courses, I gave a real-world example from less than two months ago.  Perhaps I got exceedingly lucky, maybe so.  But I played in an absolute prime-time tee time, in the absolute prime time of the Pebble Beach year, and it was neither overly crowded nor rushed nor slow in any way.  It was a darn fine golf experience. We played in about 4.5 hours and felt neither slowed nor rushed nor anything but overjoyed.

TH

[Anthony Gray]

  Matt, Tom and others,

  I have golfed PB over 10 times and I never remember it to be slow.
My home course can be a crawl at times.

  Anthony

[Tom Huckaby]

There is no doubt that Pebble Beach can produce some painfully slow rounds.  I have played some there myself.  But I've also played fast.. and my comment was more a question as to how it is NOW.  I am not kidding - the day I played had the potential for 6 hrs plus given when it was - but it did not work out that way.  So either I got lucky or they fixed the pace somehow.  I really don't know for sure.  I just do know it's not quite fair to cite Pebble Beach as a poster-course for slow play, as most do.

And my home course also tends to take WAY longer than rounds at Pebble Beach... the main reason being the idiocy of 7 minute tee times.

TH

[Tom Yost]

I have to agree with Tim Bert, it is really uncomfortable to be in the group that is out of place.

Clint Squire hit on something about the beer cart.  Man, is it frustrating to be in a slow group or behind a slow group when the beverage cart arrives and everything stops.  This made me think of a brilliant idea.  - No beverage service stop for the group that is out of place!  When the beer cart drives past and the attendant waves and says "I'll catch you guys on the next pass when you've caught up with the group ahead..."  Now THAT will make people pay attention!!

[John Kavanaugh]

I do not have Golf Magazine handy, but I tend to take Joe Passov with an ocean of salt.  He's more the Howard Stern of golf than he is an astute observer.

My brother is married to Joe's sister. (To explain why I would ever defend a golf writer)  Please explain your derogatory comment.  Despite the fact that he left the Boise State/Oklahoma game at halftime I find his opinions concerning golf to be as valid as any other paid golf writer.  On what do you base your opinion?  What is not astute about him when compared to Dr. Klein or your boss Ron Whitten?

If you choose to ignore me than at least do the right thing and take down your slanderous post.

[Tom Huckaby]

This deserves a response, John.

In my opinion, Joe Passov writes more to get a response than to give any valuable information, in too many cases - thus the comparison to Howard Stern.   I have no specific examples to give you.  This is just my impression reading him for the time that he has been writing for Golf Mag.  That being said, his "ask Joe" travel stuff is pretty good.

But I shall indeed let you be the judge, John.  These are my opinions. If you believe them to be slanderous I will delete that post, and this one.

TH

[Matt_Ward]

Huck:

Please -- nuff of the one-time exceptions -- whether at PB or I can cite even BB -- where play on a GIVEN day was better than the other times.

The simple fact is that in the roughly ten times I've played PB -- no less than nine of those visits was the CREEP AND CRAWL show.

The issue is that too many facilities RUSH to get payment and then say GOOD LUCK for the rest of the day.

High end places don't want to handle the issues of slow play because they are AFRAID it might offend the sensibilities of the culprit who's cited -- in return they allow the sensibilities of the other PAYING CUSTOMERS to be tossed aside.

[Tom Yost]

I do not have Golf Magazine handy, but I tend to take Joe Passov with an ocean of salt.  He's more the Howard Stern of golf than he is an astute observer.

My brother is married to Joe's sister. (To explain why I would ever defend a golf writer)  Please explain your derogatory comment.  Despite the fact that he left the Boise State/Oklahoma game at halftime I find his opinions concerning golf to be as valid as any other paid golf writer.  On what do you base your opinion?  What is not astute about him when compared to Dr. Klein or your boss Ron Whitten?

If you choose to ignore me than at least do the right thing and take down your slanderous post.

Derogatory? Slanderous?  I read it as a compliment!  

[Anthony Gray]

  John and Tom,

  Can we all golf together sometime? I plan on going to Chambers Bay when it warms up.

   Anthony