[Sean Leary]

I play occasionally with a Nationwide Tour guy who says that in general,  the mini-tours guys hit it the farthest, followed by the nationwise, followed by the PGA tour guys. The higher you go, the more they care about control.

He hits it as far as he wants to, but mainly swings about 80% and carries it 275-285.

[John Moore II]

Tom,

I was just thinking the same thing.  Anyone who isn't a beleiver, just invite Mr. Moore to your neck of the woods.  He's got his little handy dandy sign that he carries around in his bag at all time.

"Will play golf and hit prodigious drives for food"   

I am actually rethinking the 'for food' part. I'm getting fatter as we speak. I think I'm going to have to change it so that I only get fed if I hit a drive longer than 350 yards. Otherwise, I'll be as big as my wife's Sumo Wrestler cousin in a few years.

[Charlie Goerges]

At least once a day I seem to be forced to the back of my chair wondering how much worse can the state of the game get.  What amazes me it that the people on this site so often claim to "get it" when the average Joe does not.  63 posts in a little under 2 hours about how far they hit it...What a bunch of uninformed douche bags driving this game right into the ground.

Yesterday I had to read about people who think it is great to go to a resort and practice.  How warming up, getting in your car and driving to the first tee is not a problem and should be encouraged if it benefits the view at the range.

Just imagine for yourself if some wealthy developer who had never seen a golf course came on this site and built based on what he reads here.  It would be the exact same crap that is killing the game today.  Even the architects who build crap themselves will often say that they only give what they and the owners perceive the public wants.  Hey pubs, why not smart up and drop the pretense of having your own opinion.  I wish Ran would grow a set and eliminate your jelloish opinions before one more piece of crap is built under the guise that it is what you want.

Bad kitty, no!

Good one John Kir.

John Kav, seriously dude, you can't always expect us to toe the Gandhi-esque line and only worry about what's good for the game and eat our vegetables. Sometimes we just need to misbehave. We can't all be as far-sighted and measured in our responses as you  .

[Mike_Cirba]

When I hit it well, depending on conditions, I'm usually somewhere in the 230 (wet) -280 (rock hard) range with  a Titleist 975D that I need to upgrade at some point.

The longest guy I've played with on this board is Greg Stebbins (sorry Matt), who consistently carried it 50-70 yards further than me on a rainy day.   He's scary long.

The longest driver I've ever seen is trick shot artist Ben Witter from central PA.

He took bets driving from his knees against 100 golfers of all stripes and only lost to two of them, mostly because he duck-hooked a few.

He carries the ball around 350 on his feet.

[Bob_Huntley]

Roughly 180-200 yards, but I haven't played much this year.

That makes me either the only honest guy on this board, or the worst golfer. Maybe it's both.

Eventually, everyone of you will consider Phil's mark a badge of honor. I know how far I don't hit it and it is embarassing. Twenty five years ago at age fifty-two, I aced the 241 yard par four 4th hole on the Dunes Course at MPCC with a persimmon three wood and an orange colored Wilson Staff ball, (I lost it later on in the ditch to the left of No. 9.) Yesterday, I couldn't hit the same hole from the forward tee of 204 yards with a modern day driver and Pro VI.

Sic transit gloria.

Bob

[Craig Disher]

Not far. Maybe I should start a thread asking "how STRAIGHT do you hit it?"

[Tom Huckaby]

Bob:

I didn't know Gloria was sic(k).

Sorry, stupid line from a Mel Brooks movie.

 

But fine wisdom for sure.  And of course one not only drives for show and putts for dough, but it's also not how you drive but how you arrive.

I'll take you against Spaulding on an age-adjusted basis anyway.

TH

[Kalen Braley]

In all fairness I should add.

I rouinely blast my driver 360+.....in my online golf game!! 

[Matt Kardash]

I carry it about 300 with a pretty high ball flight. If the fairways allow for some roll I get to about 310 to 320.

[George Pazin]

We always talk about the top drives on tour.  The average drive is still about 290. I know some Tour players who hit it about 280. I know some guys who tried Q school who say pros don't hit it as far as we think, save the days when they are really on.

I also know from studying scale maps and aerial photos, and research by Frank Thomas that most of us overestimate how far we hit the ball by a lot.

It leaves the question of how far do most courses put bunkers (save some give and take, and adjusted for wind, etc.) for good, but just under Tour Pro level.

Speaking of being really on, my drives have lately varied all over the place.

When my swing is grooved I can still get 260. On another day I probably hit the weak fan out about 230 all day.  Every once in a while, I get that miraculous long drive. The other day, on a downwind 379 yard hole, I was 52 from the middle.  Even counting the slight dogleg that I cut over, that's well over 300 yards.

What is your realistic expectation for carry and roll on a typical tee shot,  no wind, not in Colorado, etc.

My numbers are similar to yours, Jeff, except my average is lower because I like to throw an occasional blistering topspin forehand into the mix every now and then. Amazing how a 75 yard drive will cut into one's average.

I still remember the first teeing it up with JohnV and hitting the best drive I've ever had on the 15th hole of my home course and he was still 20 yards ahead of me....

I'm not consistent enough to say for sure, but it does seem like the occasional really long drives I've had in the last couple years have almost all been with the Bridgestone B330S. It you hit one on the screws, that thing really goes.

[R_Paulis]

Over the last 8 years or so I have been recording data on my golf rounds. Not every round do I collect data for if I am playing competitively, or having fun with buddies I don't bother.

Of course, driving distance is one data point captured. It was quite precise for a few years for GPS was used. It has become less accurate as my home courses has changed with limited yardage markers. The long, or better yet short of it, is I average about 223 yards driving. The distance has increased slightly over the last 4 years - better equipment is my guess.

And yes, I rode a cart for a few of years when I needed to squeeze in a round with limited time.

[Dan Kelly]

I hit a very low drive, so my "average" (if I have one) depends a lot on ground conditions. Usually, in this part of the country, on the courses I play, the roll is disappointing.

I'm shorter than I used to be -- by 15 or 20 yards on that rare perfect strike, I'd guess. I'm older, and I'm stiffer.

If I hit one 250 now, I'm surprised. If I hit one well and it goes 230-235, I'm not surprised. If I hit one well and it goes 220, I'm distressed but not amazed.

Sic transit gloria, indeed -- though I never had all that much gloria to start with.

(Plenty of [sic]s, though!)

[rjsimper]

Carry-wise 255-260 comfortably, 270 if I step on it.  This assumes solid contact.  If you actually average how far I really hit it, counting the semi-whiffs and neck-balls, probably more along the lines of a 250 carry.

Of course, the annoying thing is that I carry my 3w about 250 if I flush it, which tells me maybe I need a new driver.
 

[George Pazin]

Brian,
I believe that you may hit the ball that far, but I bet you that if you surveyed 10 golfers, 8 of the 10 will almost always overestimate their driving distance.  I can't begin to tell you the number of times people will say to me, "I hit the ball 270 or so only to see them on the course hit barely hit it 240 at best.  That's not to say that under perfect conditions, with a great swing, downhill that the average guy can bust one out 270, but lets be real.

I think mostly what you're noticing is the conflict between memory and reality - but that works both ways. You might not be noticing when someone busts one, you might only be noticing the short ones.

Interesting stuff....

[George Pazin]

These things I know:


-  In the air, I hit it farther then Huckaby ...

-  Huckaby has a lower ball flight, he gets more roll ...

-  In the air, I don't hit it farther then Noser ...

-  In the air and with roll, I don't hit it farther then Noser ... (except for a couple, ok, maybe one at Rustic Canyon).


-  I did out drive Jordan Wall with the first swing of the day on the first hole at Bayonet at the Kings Putter.

- I have come close to being even with Jon Spaulding, whether he hit his on the screws or not is irrelevant.

- Last month, on my home course, I hit driver, pitching wedge on a 433 yard par 4 and made birdie.  Two holes later, I hit a solid driver and then 4 wood on a 440 yard par 4.

- At my home course, at two famous dogleg par-4s, both holes measuring over 440 yards, I use 3 wood because driver is too much club.


So how far do I drive it?

276.485 yards. Brent Hutto can figure out the standard deviation.

* Mike's post illustrates why average drive is meaningless for most, and by extension the folly of the multiple tee theory.

[Ed Homsey]

as a course rater, i've read this thread with some interest.

usga course rating guidelines consider a 'scratch' golfer to, on average, carry the ball 230 yards on the tee ball, with a 20 yard roll.  the 'bogey' golfer will, on average, carry the ball 180 yards with a 20 yard roll.  those are averages, with several factors influencing the actual distances, e.g. topography, firmness of fairways, etc.

judging from the distances mentioned throughout this thread, i'm wondering if the usga guidelines need to be changed, or is this further evidence that we tend to overestimate how far we hit the ball?

ed

[Mike Benham]

These things I know:


-  In the air, I hit it farther then Huckaby ...

-  Huckaby has a lower ball flight, he gets more roll ...

-  In the air, I don't hit it farther then Noser ...

-  In the air and with roll, I don't hit it farther then Noser ... (except for a couple, ok, maybe one at Rustic Canyon).


-  I did out drive Jordan Wall with the first swing of the day on the first hole at Bayonet at the Kings Putter.

- I have come close to being even with Jon Spaulding, whether he hit his on the screws or not is irrelevant.

- Last month, on my home course, I hit driver, pitching wedge on a 433 yard par 4 and made birdie.  Two holes later, I hit a solid driver and then 4 wood on a 440 yard par 4.

- At my home course, at two famous dogleg par-4s, both holes measuring over 440 yards, I use 3 wood because driver is too much club.


So how far do I drive it?

276.485 yards. Brent Hutto can figure out the standard deviation.

* Mike's post illustrates why average drive is meaningless for most, and by extension the folly of the multiple tee theory.

And I have one more qualifier:

- I thought I could outdrive Simper but now I am not sure ...

[Sean Leary]

Carry-wise 255-260 comfortably, 270 if I step on it.  This assumes solid contact.  If you actually average how far I really hit it, counting the semi-whiffs and neck-balls, probably more along the lines of a 250 carry.

Of course, the annoying thing is that I carry my 3w about 250 if I flush it, which tells me maybe I need a new driver.
 

I just think you need to aim way left so Simperville becomes the fairway instead of 150 yards OB right..

[JESII]

as a course rater, i've read this thread with some interest.

usga course rating guidelines consider a 'scratch' golfer to, on average, carry the ball 230 yards on the tee ball, with a 20 yard roll.  the 'bogey' golfer will, on average, carry the ball 180 yards with a 20 yard roll.  those are averages, with several factors influencing the actual distances, e.g. topography, firmness of fairways, etc.

judging from the distances mentioned throughout this thread, i'm wondering if the usga guidelines need to be changed, or is this further evidence that we tend to overestimate how far we hit the ball?

ed

Ed,

I would tend to think those yardage numbers are a little too "one size fits all"...I know you said "average", but how relevant is an average when the deviation could be as much as 30 or 40%?

[JSPayne]

I will say three things:

1) I'm an 8 handicapper and on average carry the ball around 230ish. However, most my drives end up around 270 because I tend to play a lower running draw ALL THE TIME. I have a hard time on some long forced carries, but with no hazards, I can roll it out there with almost anyone.

2) On that last note, I regularly play with two guys from my pro shop. Our head pro is probably 5'8" and 180 lbs and consistantly CARRIES 270+. Another good friend working behind the desk is maybe 5'6" and 140 lbs and can hit it the same as our head pro. I'll never reach either of them and I truly believe size doesn't matter.

3) And on that last note, I vividly remember a scrawny 6'0" 150 lb college player at an event at Meadow Club, after just missing a 5 foot eagle putt on #15, stand up on the tee on the 333 yd 16th, make an effortless swing, and DROP the ball on the pin sitting 5 yards behind a front greens bunker. Virtually no elevation change as both the tee and green were elevated. The ball stuck to within 10 ft......left a ball mark......and he missed another eagle putt. 

Conclusion: While there are many that probably don't hit it as far as they think they do, there are those that most definetely hit it consistantly longer than any of us can imagine. Even if it's only once or twice a round, the fact that some of the pros can launch one 375 to within a 20 yard square area they are aiming for blows my mind.

[Doug Sobieski]

Would anyone agree that the amount by which a person may overestimate their distances is directly related to how high their handicap is? Is it a straight line correlation? The better a player is, the more likely they know how far they will carry it.

I play almost exclusively with guys that are pros or low single digits. I don't see a lot of overestimation among us because all of us spend time on launch monitors at least once a year. As handicaps go up, I'd guess players will be less likely to know what they are capable of with much exactness.

Personally, I CARRY my driver (4 year old technology, 12* effective loft) on average 247 (that's based on many sessions on the TrackMan over the years with the same club, and it's always about the same). Overall is right around 270. 5-iron carry distance is right on 190. At 5'8", 132 pounds, I get everything I can out of my scrawny frame!!! I am maxed out. And the guy I play with more than anyone will hit it 80 yards by me at least once a round.

[Brad Swanson]

I have no clue of the actual number, but I know relatively speaking its not as far as it was just a few years ago by 10-15 yards.  It might be time to get a technological boost this next season.

[Tom Huckaby]

Hi and welcome, Ed:

I too am a course rater, and we have some others in here as well, including one EXPERT former manager of such - John Vanderborght.  Course rating issues do come up from time to time.

And your questions are good ones, and have been asked from time to time in here.  The USGA distances do seem short.  But as you likely know, they continue to assure us they are at least in the ballpark of the average distances for both scratch and bogey.  Nevertheless, they did change a few years ago as you know... and they may well change again.  Of course any change like this has impacts on standard PAR distances also, which gets problematic... So we'll see what happens.

In any case, I'd say these distances are short, but it doesn't matter that much that they are - they are used to produce a rating, not predict a score.  It surprises me not at all that most report distances longer than these.  Because of course we factor in the overestimation reason also.  

[Mike_Young]

For the sake of discussion on this site I probably ideally carry the ball around 325yds .....BUT realistically my overall average drive is about 265 with a carry of around 250.  But most of the guys I play with think we are hitting it around 285...but that aint the case.....what intrigues me today is that I have two ping rapture v2 drivers w diamana blue shafts.....I feel like I crush the 9 degree and have a good trajectory only to hit the 10.5 and not feel the same "crush" but it will end up with another 10-15 yards of distance.....I don't know.....

[John Moore II]

as a course rater, i've read this thread with some interest.

usga course rating guidelines consider a 'scratch' golfer to, on average, carry the ball 230 yards on the tee ball, with a 20 yard roll.  the 'bogey' golfer will, on average, carry the ball 180 yards with a 20 yard roll.  those are averages, with several factors influencing the actual distances, e.g. topography, firmness of fairways, etc.

judging from the distances mentioned throughout this thread, i'm wondering if the usga guidelines need to be changed, or is this further evidence that we tend to overestimate how far we hit the ball?

ed

I have said for a good bit of time now that those numbers are too low. The numbers have been the same for at least 10 years and likely much longer. Right now, for the average scratch player, they are saying that driver-3 wood should be able to reach the longest par 4's. But at 470, how many scratch players really hit D-3 anymore? Very few that I know of. (I have played 600 yard par 5's with D-3) I would say that a decent average anymore would be at least 265 with a driver and 235 with the 3. That would make the max distance for a par 4 500 yards, which is all ready where we are stretching the 'long' par 4's to. But we've had this distance-par discussion several times.

For the sake of discussion on this site I probably ideally carry the ball around 325yds .....BUT realistically my overall average drive is about 265 with a carry of around 250.  But most of the guys I play with think we are hitting it around 285...but that aint the case.....what intrigues me today is that I have two ping rapture v2 drivers w diamana blue shafts.....I feel like I crush the 9 degree and have a good trajectory only to hit the 10.5 and not feel the same "crush" but it will end up with another 10-15 yards of distance.....I don't know.....

Funny thing about the driver, the higher you can launch it with lower spin, the farther it will go. So, if you maintain the same spin rate with both, the 10.5 will go farther because you launch the ball at a higher angle.

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