Melrose CC: how much was the good doctor involved?

[Joe Bausch]

This March 28, 1928 article again gives Mac more credit than Max.  And that Mac visited three times to check how the course was coming along.

[Tom MacWood]

Joe
Another wonderful article. After reading a number of articles from Ted H. where would you place architectural acumen. The reason I ask is his comparison to PV and Philmont. Would those two courses be considered the most modern / sophisticated designs in Phila around 1928? Of course Philmont standing out more so than PV.

[Joe Bausch]

Joe
Another wonderful article. After reading a number of articles from Ted H. where would you place architectural acumen. The reason I ask is his comparison to PV and Philmont. Would those two courses be considered the most modern / sophisticated designs in Phila around 1928? Of course Philmont standing out more so than PV.

Hmm, is there some kind of equivalent to the Doak scale, perhaps the Macwood Architectural Acumen scale?!  The article above seems to indicate Ted has some knowledge, but perhaps he was just very good at taking notes while speaking to Mac and Max!  Most of his articles do not have nearly this much detail and apparent understanding of the game.  Note, Hoyt wrote about squash and some other sports too, so he wasn't just a golf writer.

I would take care into reading into his inclusion of Philmont (and PV).  Philmont North had opened not too much earlier, so it was probably fresh in all the writers heads (plus it is a very fine Park design!), and heck courses were being compared to PV since its inception.

[Tom MacWood]

Hmm, is there some kind of equivalent to the Doak scale, perhaps the Macwood Architectural Acumen scale?!  The article above seems to indicate Ted has some knowledge, but perhaps he was just very good at taking notes while speaking to Mac and Max!  Most of his articles do not have nearly this much detail and apparent understanding of the game.  Note, Hoyt wrote about squash and some other sports too, so he wasn't just a golf writer.

I would take care into reading into his inclusion of Philmont (and PV).  Philmont North had opened not too much earlier, so it was probably fresh in all the writers heads (plus it is a very fine Park design!), and heck courses were being compared to PV since its inception.

Yes there is a scale, and I give you a strong 6.

Regarding his note taking, I was thinking the opposite because he got the names of the two principles wrong - Robert 'call me Alister' Mackenzie and RC Maxwell instead of PD. All things considered Philmont was a surprise choice for me.

[Neil_Crafter]

Thanks Joe, an interesting article. Those two partners "Bob" Mackenzie and "RC Cola" Maxwell sure did some nice work!

[Joe Bausch]

Another article on Melrose CC and indicating Mac as the architect and Maxwell the builder, this from the March 13, 1930 edition of the Ambler Gazette.

[Neil_Crafter]

Thanks for the article Joe. Where was the Ambler Gazette published?

[Joe Bausch]

Thanks for the article Joe. Where was the Ambler Gazette published?

Ambler, PA.

[Neil_Crafter]

I suppose the answer should have been obvious even to someone from South Australia! Thanks Joe.

[Joe Bausch]

Ambler is a little town in the Philly suburbs.

Neil, where do you come down currently on the design attribution for Melrose?  Mostly Mac?  A solid tag-team combo?

[Chris_Clouser]

Joe,

Maxwell was the guy that did the design.  He was contracted to do the job prior to Mackenzie coming on board and did the original design before Mackenzie came on board.  ONLY after Mackenzie and Maxwell began their partnership did Mackenzie get his name added to the project and only then contributed a few items to the finish of the design.  But as part of the partnership I'm sure that his name carried much more weight than Maxwell's as Mac came from overseas and Maxwell was still fairly unknown in the area at the time.  Heck even after he did work at Pine Valley and Gulph Mills a lot of people still didn't know the guy existed.  It would only make sense for someone who had designed or was planning on designing courses in England, Australia and other parts of the country along with being the consulting architect for the R&A to be the headliner and would get all the press.  Maxwell was one of the most humble guys in the industry at the time and he would be more than willing to let Mackenzie take all the credit.  It would only generate more business for them.  They didn't even attribute Maxwell correctly in one of the articles you provided earlier, so how much are they really going to credit him anyway.  Would it be news if some guy from Oklahoma was building a course in Philly? Of course not.  But bring in an Englishman who came all the way across the ocean with all of those credentials to do this course in Philadelphia, now that is news.  You don't think the newspapers would want to spin a story back then do you?  It kind of feeds into that East Coast mentality of being the "Mecca" of all things worthwhile and having those things only done by people that were worthwhile and a former banker from Oklahoma doesn't really fit that mold...

[TEPaul]

Chris:

Excellent post---very rational and logical. I expect Colt (and Alison) was treated the same way and with the same respect around here back then as Mackenzie was with Melrose, and as you pointed out and for the reasons you pointed out why wouldn't he (they) be?

[Joe Bausch]

Joe,

Maxwell was the guy that did the design.  He was contracted to do the job prior to Mackenzie coming on board and did the original design before Mackenzie came on board.  ONLY after Mackenzie and Maxwell began their partnership did Mackenzie get his name added to the project and only then contributed a few items to the finish of the design.  But as part of the partnership I'm sure that his name carried much more weight than Maxwell's as Mac came from overseas and Maxwell was still fairly unknown in the area at the time.  Heck even after he did work at Pine Valley and Gulph Mills a lot of people still didn't know the guy existed.  It would only make sense for someone who had designed or was planning on designing courses in England, Australia and other parts of the country along with being the consulting architect for the R&A to be the headliner and would get all the press.  Maxwell was one of the most humble guys in the industry at the time and he would be more than willing to let Mackenzie take all the credit.  It would only generate more business for them.  They didn't even attribute Maxwell correctly in one of the articles you provided earlier, so how much are they really going to credit him anyway.  Would it be news if some guy from Oklahoma was building a course in Philly? Of course not.  But bring in an Englishman who came all the way across the ocean with all of those credentials to do this course in Philadelphia, now that is news.  You don't think the newspapers would want to spin a story back then do you?  It kind of feeds into that East Coast mentality of being the "Mecca" of all things worthwhile and having those things only done by people that were worthwhile and a former banker from Oklahoma doesn't really fit that mold...

Wow, Chris.  I thought, being a fellow Hoosier, I had built up some currency with you.  Apparently not.   

[Neil_Crafter]

Joe - and Chris
Thanks for the question and to Chris for his answer.

I'm not really sure what to say other than it certainly appears Mac was brought in after Maxwell had got the project and he certainly was brought in for the cachet his Scottish/English pedigree gave to the project. The question is how much weight you give to the press articles that you have found Joe, most of which suggest that Mackenzie did change things after his appointment and that Mac was more the architect and Maxwell more the assistant and the man in charge of constructing the course. The Hoyt article of March 22 1927 says that Dean Woods would be building the course. However, a number of these articles even fail to get Mackenzie and Maxwell's names right so how much weight do you give them on design accreditation matters?

I would think that Mackenzie did change some things around when he got involved - if only to show his 'value' to the client - and that like the majority of Mackenzie's projects outside the UK the detailed design decisions were given over to the local 'junior' partner, in this case Maxwell. So in many respects it seems like a typical Mac partnership project.

[TEPaul]

Neil:

To me this Melrose project seems completely typical of the way those well known English architects who were over here at that time, particularly Alison and Mackenzie tried to team up or partner up (with a corporate structure dedicated to individual courses) with an American or local architect. Part of the reason seems fairly obvious to me----eg they needed and could take advantage of the local or American architect's crew or support staff. In this case it was Dean Woods who apparently went everywhere with Maxwell. I believe he was Maxwell's brother-in-law and he often brought his brother along. I think it's interesting that that article above mentioned Dean Woods because his reputation certainly did become pretty well known eventually around here. Dean Woods and the Woods Brothers were apparently really incredible green builders.

Maxwell did two greens at Pine Valley that are just so wonderful and there has always been that story around Pine Valley that when they were doing those greens that Maxwell could rarely be found. Apparently he would set things up early in the morning with the Woods brothers and then take off for the rest of the day to Philadelphia to take advantage of the opera and such!

I recall spending about 15 to 20 minutes on the left green on #9 PV with the Doak Co's Jim Urbina, in his own right an excellent green designer/builder, and how blown away he was with the remarkable surface contours on that green and how they appeared to work together to drain off that green. I remember that he allowed as he felt Maxwell's Woods brothers may've just free-floated that thing BY EYE!