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Tom E.

Re: Will There Ever Be Another Like Marion Hollins
« Reply #25 on: June 10, 2002, 06:49:20 PM »
Marion Hollins, in my opinion, is probably one of a kind.  Her range of accomplishments is amazing.  

I'm not so sure about the first-ever women's club, though.  I've heard many times that Morris County GC (NJ) was founded as a women's only club and changed after a few years to a regular, male-dominated format.  MCGC was founded over 100 years ago.  

Perhaps Pat Mucci or someone else from New Jersey knows more about this.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Lisa Luigs Morrissett

Re: Will There Ever Be Another Like Marion Hollins
« Reply #26 on: June 16, 2002, 08:29:33 PM »
Guys -

Let's drop the battle of the sexes re: frugality. That is another discussion entirely. I am sure my husband worships the ground I walk on when it comes to our money and the way in which it is spent (or more correctly, saved).

I have no doubt that I could (and do) have the same type of vision (and potential membership list) that Mr. Keiser does when it comes to a golf development. I just don't have his type of money.

And these days, it is not just a matter of vision, but one purely of economics as so carefully explained and explored in the Friar's Head discussion a few months back. Trust me, I have done the math.

There is nothing I would love more than to develop a Women's National Club. However, my current location (central Indiana) is probably less than a desirable (sp?) destination for most women who would be interested in a national club. If I lived in the Met area, I am quite sure there would be tremendous interest. But again, since I was not born into or married into the Forbes family, it will continue to be a pipe dream. Maybe they will adopt me or I will finally win the lottery.

But until then, I can only dream of the ultimate club for we lowly, overspending women. . .
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Ed_Baker

Re: Will There Ever Be Another Like Marion Hollins
« Reply #27 on: June 17, 2002, 08:04:59 AM »
Lisa,

If the thread came across as demeaning to woman, I for one apologize.

Marion Hollins was an extraordinary woman who had a profound effect on golf course architecture in an era that was dominated by males, a remarkable achievment.

I was actually trying to make the point that regardless of sex there are damn few Mike Keisers in the world that have the financial capability and vision to bring their golf course dreams to fruition and are willing to take the gamble with their own money.

That said, given the male ego,I still say it is far more likely for a man to spend his money on anything to do with golf,travel,memberships, or course construction and development, than a woman with the same financial capability.The financially independent woman who also happens to be an accomplished golfer is far more likely to join a club that meets her expectations and fulfills her golfing needs than she is to build her own, it is a far more sensible investment with virtually no downside that she can terminate at any time. This opportunity did not exist in Marion Hollins era.

My grandmother grew up learning the game on her own six hole course in Pennsylvannia with sand greens on the family farm! She won the Penn. womans state championship, the Mass. championship 5 times, and various club championships 32 times, being a plus 2 handicap in her prime in the 1920's. She won four club championships after a radical mastectomy in 1949 and lived to be 94 years old! She was one of the founders of the Womans Golf Association of Massachusetts and the WGAM still holds a 36 hole stroke play tournament that bears her name to this day. She had no effect on golf architecture because she spent her time playing and getting womans golf recognized and in her words "legitimized."
She was relentless in getting woman ACCESS to golf courses. I consider her to be a contemporary of Marion Hollins, she certainly had the social and financial contacts to build a golf course if she was so inclined, or certainly to influence the construction of one. The closest she came was being one of the founders of Scituate Golf Club a nine hole semi-private club that still exists today, it was the first semi-private club in the area to have equal access to tee times for woman without restriction and allowing Scituate residents to play for greens fees. She maintained memberships at Marshfield and Oakley as well.
After it was built she entered the club championship and caused quite a furor because she was the only female entrant.The club championship was just assumed to be an all male tournament. She prevailed and said that the tournament was genderless, she played and she won which caused my grandfather to quit golf because she beat him by 16 strokes in 36 holes!

I state all this to accentuate just how remarkable Marion Hollins was. A large part of my grandmothers life was golf and as stated she was no shrinking violet, yet she never had any influence on golf course architecture, I don't think it ever occured to her. She was raised a Quaker and she would squeeze the ears off a buffalo nickel, yet gave feely to charity, but would she ever consider spending any of her own money to build a golf course? Nope. She paid to play that's all, I don't think that dynamic has changed today.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Will There Ever Be Another Like Marion Hollins
« Reply #28 on: June 17, 2002, 10:46:48 AM »
Maybe the first part of this question of 'whether there will ever be another Marion Hollins' ought to be to identify any hot-bed pockets of the country where such a woman might come to the forefront.   I certainly am not connected enough in the golf world to actually know if the question is valid or if such a hotbed of women's golf actually exists.  I can only guess that the Carolina's may be such a locale due to the statement I made above about Peggy Kirk Bell at PineNeedles and Mid...  I heard that Carolyn Cudone was a moving force behind the Dunes in Myrtle Beach as well.  Cudone shares the distinction of being a previous Curtis Cup capt., with Hollins.

Lisa, perhaps if you get your B-in-law to donate the Carthage Club land, you should have a go at it and become another force to be reckoned with in the pine-sand hills and forests of N.C.  ;)  Shoot, he doesn't seem to be using the land for any durn thing! :-/

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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TEPaul

Re: Will There Ever Be Another Like Marion Hollins
« Reply #29 on: June 17, 2002, 11:02:38 AM »
Most people have very little idea of the significant contributions women made to early golf in this country and elsewhere--you can see it all over the place in doing research on early American golf.

But in a compleat sense I don't know that there was anyone quite like Marion Hollins--she didn't make significant contributions just in women's golf she made significant contributions in both men's golf and women's golf--in all of golf and architecture.

It also appears that in early handicapping and handicapping concepts women made a far larger initial contribution in Europe than men did!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »