[PThomas]

in this months GD, worst holes on the best courses:

!. B Dunes 18th

2. CPC 18

3. Flint Hills 18th

4.  Hazeltine 17th

5. Medinah's 9th

6. Oak Hills 6th

7. Olympic 's 7th

8. Pebbles 2nd

9. Sciotos 8th

10. W Straits 5th

[PCCraig]

I would agree with the 5th at WS.

I know there was an environmental issue with building the hole, but come on.

[Chip Gaskins]

Wow. I think the #7 at Olympic is the best hole on the course.  One man's trash is another man's treasure.





And what is so bad about CPC #18.... I hear it so often but it is not that bad, seriously.

[PCCraig]

Chip-

I think the easy answer to why everyone dislikes the 18th at CPC is that it is such a letdown after 15-16-17.

[Jonathan Cummings]

18th at CPC = bad hole......tiring argument.

You want to talk about absolutes?  I would like to see anybody and I mean anybody retire to lunch, to that understated veranda overlooking the 16th, and that Godly setting, and complain that number 18 is a bad hole.  I've been lucky enough to have been there many times and nobody, NOBODY would have the balls to say that in front of their host.

I frankly like the hole.  One time many years ago I drove straight into the bramble (hoping my driver would impart the cut I’ve forever lived with).  Nope, it was surprisingly laser-ed.  My caddie found my ball and told me my only shot was a 60 yard pitch directly back to the tee.  A miracle short iron and 1-putt from there and I was able to brag at lunch.

JC

[PThomas]

CPC's 18th is not that bad...tight yes but not unplayable or anything...and this from a guy who hit a perfect drive in the middle..then lost a ball up in the trees after a pushed 2nd shot!

and Ron states the "triple 'evel green doesn't match anything else on the course"

[TX Golf]

7th at Olympic as the worst?? That must be a joke..... right?

[Bob_Huntley]

18th at CPC = bad hole......tiring argument.

You want to talk about absolutes?  I would like to see anybody and I mean anybody retire to lunch, to that understated veranda overlooking the 16th, and that Godly setting, and complain that number 18 is a bad hole.  I've been lucky enough to have been there many times and nobody, NOBODY would have the balls to say that in front of their host.

I frankly like the hole.  One time many years ago I drove straight into the bramble (hoping my driver would impart the cut I’ve forever lived with).  Nope, it was surprisingly laser-ed.  My caddie found my ball and told me my only shot was a 60 yard pitch directly back to the tee.  A miracle short iron and 1-putt from there and I was able to brag at lunch.

JC

Jonathan,

" NOBODY would have the balls to say that in front of their host."


Jonathan, you are quite wrong, I have done so. Not in a confrontational manner but in mentioning the hole's deficiencies. I have returned many times in the past forty odd years.

Bob

[Tom Naccarato]

Bob,
What are the hole's deficiencies? (This is a question)

[J_ Crisham]

Wow. I think the #7 at Olympic is the best hole on the course.  One man's trash is another man's treasure.





And what is so bad about CPC #18.... I hear it so often but it is not that bad, seriously.

Chip,  I would agree with #7 at Olympic. That hole and 18 were two of the more enjoyable and memorable holes for me.
                                                                         Jack

[PThomas]

is my memory failing me or aren't there plans to make major changes to Olympics 7th??

[Allan Long]

Add me to the list of those tiring of hearing that CPC is the best 17-hole course in the country, hemisphere, Milky Way galaxy, etc.

It (#18) can't help suffer in comparison to the finishing holes that precede it, but a top-10 Worst of the Best hardly.

[Carl Nichols]

I personally don't think 7 at Olympic Lake is the best hole on the course, but it's not close to the worst hole on the course, and thus it can't be in the top 10 worst holes on great courses. 

[Andy Troeger]

I don't think CPC's 18 is that bad. Its not one of the better holes on the course, but it has a unique charm to it IMO.

I actually kind of like the 2nd at Pebble for a short par five. Its pretty easy for a low marker, but a good early hole for a regular golfer playing Pebble. I'd pick #15 if I were going to nominate a hole from Pebble.

Oddly, Jim Franklin and I both really liked the 18th at Flint Hills--Jim more than me so hopefully he will chime in. I thought the fairway landing area was too narrow, but the rest of the hole was really cool--risk/reward par five.

I'm not a huge fan of the 5th at Whistling Straits, but its SIGNIFICANTLY better than the 18th there.

[Tom Naccarato]

Once again, I would like a somewhat detailed explanation why the 18th is such a bad hole. (I'm asking)

The 18th is sans a lot of bunkers that at one time made it a much more picturesque, more dramatic looking golf hole. These bunkers were removed by a previous club president whose game didn't fit the hole. (at least legend has it. Bob might be able to explain more) Certainly a tee across the rocks would have made a difference, just on the thrill of waters of the deep blue Pacific (the most beautiful ocean in the world) splashing upon you; certainly it would have scored big Matt Ward points. But honestly, what is the gripe after those previous 17 holes?

[Jon Wiggett]

Nevr played CPC unfortunately    but what I have seen of it leads me to believe it is a good hole. Maybe it is just the clubhouse that is bbehind the wrong green

[Bob_Huntley]

Tommy,

This has been debated ad nauseaum. Just go back into the archives and look it up. Whatever I have said in the past is there for your recall.

Happy hunting.

Bob

[Jason Topp]

17 at Hazeltine is one of the best on the course.  My guess is that Ron was there before they took a tree or two out recently.

I like 18 at Bandon Dunes also and have never understood why it is considered a disappointing finish.

[Joel_Stewart]

It doesn't really matter on Olympics 7th hole, it's gone, bulldozed last week at the hands of architect Bill Love.   It was named one of the top 500 holes in the world but they decided the green needed to be moved back a whopping 13 yards and be reshaped.

The best explanation on the 18th at CPC is Sandy Tatums on the feature interview.

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/interviewtatum1.html

[Jeff_Brauer]

I agree with most of the list.  I agreed the 7th at Oly isn't the worst.  How about 17 there? 

The other one is Pebble 2.  While I know its too short to be a great par 5 it still has charm - moreso than, say the 15th and perhaps a few other inland holes there.  But, I know why he put it on the list.

Someone here is not going to be happy about Flint Hills 18, naming it a great hole on a recent thread!  However, I agree on this one, too.  It feels forced in.

[Tom Naccarato]

Tommy,

This has been debated ad nauseaum. Just go back into the archives and look it up. Whatever I have said in the past is there for your recall.

Happy hunting.

Bob

Bob, I've looked, searched and Googled and still not found anything. The last time I remember even discussing it was years ago, before GCA. the reason why I ask is more to learn--to see if we have learned and changed opinions, which is o.k. by me. I just think its a hole that no one seems to have a problem complaining about, yet never really says why its bad, just that its a let down.

[JWinick]

Why is this a bad hole?  I like it.   18 is the bad hole at WS.   Sure, 5 is a little out of character with the rest of the course, but it's a challenging Par 5 that requires the player to both draw and cut the ball to obtain the best results.   

I would agree with the 5th at WS.

I know there was an environmental issue with building the hole, but come on.

[Steve Lapper]

Tommy,

This has been debated ad nauseaum. Just go back into the archives and look it up. Whatever I have said in the past is there for your recall.

Happy hunting.

Bob

Tommy:

   While I've never labeled it a bad or even unpleasant hole, the primary reasoning (I believe) most don't like it is the imposition of strands of large trees that obscure the preferred line of play. As a shortish dogleg, those towering trees appear to block the landing zone and calls for the tee shot to be a low-slung considerable draw(re:hook) to safely escape them.

   After the visual glories of the previous 17 (and especially the past three), many callow course critics find it convenient to snarl at this request for navigation through a bramble of majestic weeds. I say too bad and tough luck, play it as it lies and summon one more well played and precisely planned shot to get a crack at a mostly receptive green. Of course, should anyone really find themselves dismayed, they can, of course, proceed right to their car and depart,,,tsk...tsk..



Bob, I've looked, searched and Googled and still not found anything. The last time I remember even discussing it was years ago, before GCA. the reason why I ask is more to learn--to see if we have learned and changed opinions, which is o.k. by me. I just think its a hole that no one seems to have a problem complaining about, yet never really says why its bad, just that its a let down.

[rjsimper]

I can't see how the 7th at Olympic belongs on this list - I can see how it would not be everyone's cup of tea, but it's by no means objectively bad (which many would make the argument that 18 at CPC is)

Does the Whitten article have explanations for each, or is it just an unsubstantiated list?

I assume his problem with 7 is the green and the severity/lack of playability if it's lightning fast?  Or just that the green is out of character with the rest of the course? For a hole of that length, I think that it's more than appropriate.

[PCCraig]

Why is this a bad hole?  I like it.   18 is the bad hole at WS.   Sure, 5 is a little out of character with the rest of the course, but it's a challenging Par 5 that requires the player to both draw and cut the ball to obtain the best results.   

I would agree with the 5th at WS.

I know there was an environmental issue with building the hole, but come on.

Jon-

I would call the 5th at WS challenging...as well as a goofy filler for the rest of the course. I feel as though this fits the bill of the subject article. It is hands down the worst hole on the course, with little or no strategy. The only thing you can do is hit something into a narrow passage off the tee, then hit something into a more narrow passage on your second shot, the up to a plain green. Its a forced three shot hole not because of length, but by being awkward. Its essentially target golf on a non-target golf kind of course.

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