Trip organisers to GB&I - a plea!

[Mark Chaplin]

I often see wonderful trips planned to these shores taking in 6, 8 or 10 of our majestic top line courses. Reading on I see plans to visit 2 different clubs in a day and motor around at break neck speeds.

My plea is to try and immerse yourself a little more in GB&I club culture and savour the courses rather than tick off as many as possible. Many of the classic links courses deserve a full day and two laps, time os needed to appreciate the lines, slopes and curves of the courses.

Several of our great heathlands have 27 or 36 holes such as Sunningdale, Berkshire, Walton Heath and St. Georges Hill. The "new" courses are all worthy of your time and in the case of SGC and WH the New courses are UK top 100s in their own right. Further more the full jacket and tie club lunch at most of our premiere clubs is NOT to be missed.

On my recent US trip I had the option of PV and Merion on the same day, choosing instead 4 holes on Merion East, drinks and dinner on the patio followed by a slow tour of the clubhouse then PV two days later. I know I'll have the chance to visit Merion again and rather than rushing and wasting the opportunity to get to know both clubs I feel I have a good idea of what makes Merion click as a club even if I haven't played half the course.

To sum up, slow down play fewer courses more times and enjoy the experience. From a GCA viewpoint you will understand the likes of Dornoch, North Berwich, Prestwick, etc far better after a good lunch and a second viewing!

[Rich Goodale]

Amen, Mark.

[Deucie Bies]

Mark,

As you know, I am guilty of planning a trip where we are going to play 10 courses in 7 days.  I understand your point and will look into following your advice on future trips.  The difficulty for me is that I want to see different places and I'm not sure when I will make it back so I have tried to fit in a lot of golf courses.  Thanks to your advice that you sent me, I have rearranged my trip a bit and am going to stay at Rye for a night and am going to try to enjoy as many lunches as I can.  I was also able to secure a time at Swinley Forest which I am very much looking forward to.  Thanks again for all of your help. 

[Ally Mcintosh]

Although I agree entirely with what Mark is advocating, I can see the conundrum for those travelling great distances for what may be a once-off trip...

[David_Tepper]

Mark -

I could not agree with you more.

There are so many places in GB&I that have 4 or 5 wonderful golf courses within a 30-45 mile radius (East Lothian, the Lancashire Coast, the Kentish Coast, the Dornoch area, Fife, Surrey, etc.).  Why not rent a place for a week and play the nearby courses 2 or 3 times each, rather than packing and unpacking your bags and moving from hotel to hotel every other night?

DT

[Kyle Henderson]

While I would love to savor each experience to the fullest, more time = more cost in food, accomodations and work hours.

If I am frugal enough to save up for a trip to Great Britain, I will most assuredly elect to see as many course as possible during my time there.

If my financial outlook improves, I will heed your advice.

[David_Tepper]

Kyle H. -

If it makes you feel any better, the U.S. $ (at $1.60 to the Pound) is currently stronger vs. the British Pound than it has been in the past 5 years.  That does not make a golf trip to GB&I cheap, just a little less expensive.

DT

[Mark Pearce]

While I would love to savor each experience to the fullest, more time = more cost in food, accomodations and work hours.

If I am frugal enough to save up for a trip to Great Britain, I will most assuredly elect to see as many course as possible during my time there.

If my financial outlook improves, I will heed your advice.

Kyle,

I understand your point but believe it is based on a false premise, namely that the more courses you play, the more you get out of the visit.  Like Mark and Rich I strongly believe that an intelligent golfer, interested in the course he is playing will get more out of the great courses by playing twice in the day, rather than rushing off to another course.  Add to that the fact that you can relax over lunch (and a trip to Muirfield or Prestwick or the Berkshire without lunch misses out a significant part of the experience) and almost certainly talk to some members and you have a much more fulfilling day.  Finally, David is also right, reducing your travelling reduces the stresses involved and allows you to more fully appreciate the trip.

This really is a case of less equalling more.

[Tom Huckaby]

LOL
Another topic that has been batted around COUNTLESS times in here.  Perhaps this will draw back in Dan King? 

I've done it both ways.  The more preferable is how you suggest, Mark, without a doubt.  But if one has only one trip over there.... well there is wisdom also in ticking off courses.  You won't have the savory experience, but you also won't miss any courses you would later regret.  That is, you'd surely greatly enjoy those you do see... but you'd also know NOTHING about those you don't.  So please do try to understand those who want a little knowledge of many courses as opposed to a lot of knowledge of a few.

Either way works.  Your way is more fun.  But your way also does lead to more later regret.

Or at least I think so... and I have examples, friends of mine who are still pissed at me for "making them" do a trip that way because now every time they get asked about a UK course they have to answer "I don't know, we didn't play it" with the small exceptions of the few we did savor.  They loved the trip while there, have great memories, but still hold me responsible for their lack of knowledge.

TH

[Kyle Henderson]

Kyle,
  Like Mark and Rich I strongly believe that an intelligent golfer, interested in the course he is playing will get more out of the great courses by playing twice in the day, rather than rushing off to another course. 

Can't I just play two balls in one loop?


I'm keenly interested in this thread because I'm planning to work some extra hoursa and abstain from golf through the winter (after my 1st Bandon trip in two weeks!) with the intent of saving up for a trip to Scotland next summer. Ideally, I'd like to play TOC, Castle Course (worth it?), Carnoustie-Championship, Kingsbarn, Troon, Trunberry (Ailsa), Prestwick, Machrihanish (X 2), North Berwick (West), Cruden Bay, Gleneagles and Dornoch.

That's twelve courses. I figure taking two full weeks off will give me 16 days, two of which would be for travelling. With 15 hours of daylight, will I have enough time to savor?

[Jed Peters]

Mark:

Great points. May be a bit tough, however, to manage for some (see Kyle's reasons, below).

I have a fairly good example of this to draw from on my side of things--I got to spend an ENTIRE day at Monterey Penninsula Country Club and even 5+ hours on the course with one of the legends of the Club and his kid.

Breakfast, golf on the Dunes course, lunch, the full tour, and I didn't miss a thing from rushing off to play the other course there.

Of course, it helps that I have played the other course 2x before!

[David_Tepper]

Kyle -

That is a VERY ambitious itinerary!

I would concentrate on central Scotland and save Dornoch & Cruden Bay for another trip. Save those 2 courses for a north of Scotland trip and include it with Royal Aberdeen, Nairn, Castle Stuart, Brora, Goslpie, etc.

There are PLENTY of worthwhile courses in East Lothian and Fife that you would enjoy playing.  As mentioned above, you would also enjoy playing some courses a 2nd time.

DT        

[Tom Huckaby]

As I say, in a perfect world of unlimited time, one does it as Mark says.  With limited time and even more importantly a real chance that it's one a few trips one will make there in a lifetime, it's very viable to see more courses and savor them less.

Look at it this way, Jed:  if you had one chance to go to Monterey and had a chance to play MPCC and Cypress, would you prefer to spend that full day at MPCC, as great as it was?  Perhaps yes... but you also have to understand those who would want to take their once chance to play Cypress, right?


TH

[Jed Peters]

Look at it this way, Jed:  if you had one chance to go to Monterey and had a chance to play MPCC and Cypress, would you prefer to spend that full day at MPCC, as great as it was?  Perhaps yes... but you also have to understand those who would want to take their once chance to play Cypress, right?


TH

Tom:

Playing Cypress was not an option for me, and it never has been.

Had I the opportunity, I'd give a nut to play there, let alone give up a full day at MPCC.

Jed

[Kyle Henderson]

Kyle -

That is a VERY ambitious itinerary!

I would concentrate on central Scotland and save Dornoch & Cruden Bay for another trip. Save those 2 courses for a north of Scotland trip and include it with Royal Aberdeen, Nairn, Castle Stuart, Brora, Goslpie, etc.

There are PLENTY of worthwhile courses in East Lothian and Fife that you would enjoy playing.  As mentioned above, you would also enjoy playing some courses a 2nd time.

DT        

I hear you. But another trip to Scotland will probably be a decades down the road, if I ever return. After all, there's still Ireland, England, Australia & New Zealand to cover golf-wise, and a very wide world outside of golf destinations.

At this point, the extent of my international travels (golfing or otherwise) is limited to Cabo and Ensenada (Mexico), and Banff/Jasper (Canada). I've got a lot to discover.

Will I not deeply regret missing out on Dornoch for the sake of a few "lesser known" courses in Fife?

[Kyle Henderson]

Look at it this way, Jed:  if you had one chance to go to Monterey and had a chance to play MPCC and Cypress, would you prefer to spend that full day at MPCC, as great as it was?  Perhaps yes... but you also have to understand those who would want to take their once chance to play Cypress, right?


TH

Tom:

Playing Cypress was not an option for me, and it never has been.

Had I the opportunity, I'd give a nut to play there, let alone give up a full day at MPCC.

Jed

I would also sacrifice one of Jed's seed pods for a chance to play Cypress. He  must has at least five of those things.

[Jed Peters]

At this point, the extent of my international travels isl imited to Cabo and Ensenada (Mexico), and Banff/Jasper (Canada). I've got a lot to discover.

Funny you mention canada. I'm headed there to play early next July.

[Jed Peters]

I would also sacrifice one of Jed's seed pods for a chance to play Cypress. He  must has at least five of those things.

Too funny.

[Will MacEwen]

At this point, the extent of my international travels isl imited to Cabo and Ensenada (Mexico), and Banff/Jasper (Canada). I've got a lot to discover.

Funny you mention canada. I'm headed there to play early next July.

Whereabouts?

[Kyle Henderson]

I would also sacrifice one of Jed's seed pods for a chance to play Cypress. He  must has at least five of those things.

Too funny.

You and Chuck norris, eh?

[Jed Peters]

At this point, the extent of my international travels isl imited to Cabo and Ensenada (Mexico), and Banff/Jasper (Canada). I've got a lot to discover.

Funny you mention canada. I'm headed there to play early next July.

Based out of Calgary.

Then going to do the Jasper/Banff thing.

Whereabouts?

[Tom Huckaby]

Good stuff.  But the issue remains, do you play two great courses if given the chance, or savor the same one twice?

That's the question here.  And again in a perfect world you don't have to make that choice.  Savoring the one remains preferable.  But it also leads to regret at missing the other.

TH

[Bill_McBride]

Our trip for 8 in June was almost perfect - 5 nights in Dornoch (after 1.5 days of travel  ) and 5 more in St Andrews.  We played Royal Dornoch x3, the Struie at Dornoch, Nairn (some x2), Brora, Golspie in a match vs members  .

I had hoped for a Saturday round at Cruden Bay, Royal Aberdeen or Murcar en route to St Andrews from Dornoch, but no luck, member play had tied up all three courses.  This is pretty typical during the summer so you need to plan for that when scheduling.

So we were in St Andrews Saturday-departure day Thursday, and played St Andrews Jubilee, New and Old, and then half of us joined the Buda Cup at Lundin and Elie while the others played Carnoustie and Troon.

It was one hell of a trip, with minimum moving and driving.

I have done something similar twice involving North Berwick/Muirfield and on to St Andrews.  To me it just makes it easier than doing the pack, drive, play, sleep, repeat thing which I have also done.

One of these days I'll try the same thing on the west coast of Scotland.

[Anthony Gray]

Good stuff.  But the issue remains, do you play two great courses if given the chance, or savor the same one twice?

That's the question here.  And again in a perfect world you don't have to make that choice.  Savoring the one remains preferable.  But it also leads to regret at missing the other.

TH

  I AS ALWAYS agree with my hero Tom. You cannot pass up oppertunities. On a recent thread about the Scotish highlands the same thing came up. I said make the 2+ hour trip to play Cruden Bay. Carpe Diem.

                                                            Anthony

[Ken Moum]

Ideally, I'd like to play TOC, Castle Course (worth it?), Carnoustie-Championship, Kingsbarn, Troon, Trunberry (Ailsa), Prestwick, Machrihanish (X 2), North Berwick (West), Cruden Bay, Gleneagles and Dornoch.

That's twelve courses. I figure taking two full weeks off will give me 16 days, two of which would be for travelling. With 15 hours of daylight, will I have enough time to savor?

In 2006, I played Cruden, Nairn Dunbar, Nairn, Dornoch, Brora, Boat of Garten, New, Jubilee, Old, Lundin and N. Berwick in two weeks.

That was WAY too much driving, and your trip is a lot worse, given that you've included the east coast. I think you'll regret not stopping to smell the roses.

One thing you can't imagine is how much different (slower)  it is to drive on Scottish roads compared to here.

We stayed in Nairn several nights and drove to Dornoch and Brora on consecutive days. I cannot recommend it.

Ken