New Contender for TOP 10 US -- THE DORMIE CLUB

[Jed Peters]

fock.

That looks awesome!

[Mike Sweeney]

The Dormie is built on openly sandy soil...there is no/almost no rough...the edges of the fairway just blend into the sandy scrub ...I just can't tell from those pictures but it looks like there is a lot of tall grass around the holes and not a lot of open sandy areas.

It looks like a combination of Pine Valley and Bandon Trails with a touch of Friars Head in the third from the last picture of Craig's post. Those are some pretty good names!

[Matt Varney]

The 17th hole at The Dormie Club is just awesome.  If many of the holes on this course look like #17 with the width and natural areas coming right to edges this is going to be a great golf club.

[Willie_Dow]

And wake when the lakes come into play !  This will be the great awakening of Pinehurst !   

Poet, I'm not !

[M. Shea Sweeney]

i have seen pictures of the Dormie Club, and have played everything in Pinehurst, so I know the area. The golf course looks great, but after only playing 7 holes, it would seem pretty tough to say one wouldn't be surprised if the golf course was rated higher than Sand Hills or courses "better" than Sand Hills.

With that said if you enjoy the golf course, who cares.

I am sorry that this comment offended/disturbed anyone.  I liked the course...I liked it a lot.  I think that it may well be highly ranked and considered one of the best of Coore and Crenshaw.  This is just an opinion...I have been wrong many times, I may be wrong about this...

Bart

Bart-

I wasn't disturbed by your comment, it's golf course architecture. I just  think that it would be hard to have an opinion after only playing 7 holes.

-Mike

[Jim Nugent]

Bart, don't worry about only playing 7 holes.  Tom Doak didn't play plenty of courses he rated in the CG. 

[Ran Morrissett]

No investor has pulled out.

Bart’s enthusiasm for the ground game options at Dormie is well founded. Take a look at Craig's photos above and these other ones of the fourth hole below.



This dogleg left features a high right side and a lower left side to its fairway. Though tee balls can sling down the hill, the golfer can be left with an awkward stance from a hanging lie into the green. The two best players of Dormie have told me that they like the approach better from the more level area provided in the 155-170 yard range on the upper right side of the fairway (just out of view to the right of this photo).

Cleverly, though the fairway slopes right to left, the green complex slopes left to right as we see here.

 

This is what you get when you hire Coore & Crenshaw: they find ways for the land to yield unique holes. It isn’t the topo map mail-in job of going from a tee on a high point to a green on the next high point. Here, an approach played at the three tall pines behind the left edge of the green will take the slope and trickle close to this hole location.

Below is the view from the 400 yard fifteenth tee.



The golfer who flirts with the wetland is rewarded twofold: first, he is given a level stance and second he has a clear view of the flag and much of the green. As you begin to shy away from the wetland and play to the left, the hump seventy yards from the green blocks the view of the majority of the putting surface. As Craig's photo of the approach to the 15th shows above, maybe the red flag will be visible; maybe it won’t. Again, the land form left of the green can be used as the golfer’s friend to feed balls onto the putting surface. What is hidden from view from is a pair of twelve foot deep (!) bunkers around the right side and back right corner of the green.  These are most severe greenside hazards on the course so the golfer is well advised to use the land to work shots onto the green as opposed to risking a push into either of these pits.

Construction of the course will be completed over the winter and play of all eighteen holes will be early next summer. We are very fortunate to have a design of this class coming here. Since Ross’s death over fifty years ago, the Tar Heel state has not been inundated with great - or even good – architecture. This area in particular has squandered its advantage of sandy soil and Dormie will provide a timely reminder as to its playing virtues.

Cheers,

[jim_lewis]

Bart:

You were correct to challenge David's comment about the financial status of the Dormie Club. He is the one who should apologize. It is completely inappropriate to make comments about the private internal financial matters of a club on such a public forum, whether they are true or not.  Not only did he use poor judgement, I believe his statement was incorrect.


I share your high regard for the course, but I would like to see the finished product before I place it above Sand Hills. I'm quite confident that it will be very special.

Jim Lewis

[Anthony Gray]

  Will The Dormie Club be open to the public?

[John Kavanaugh]

  Will The Dormie Club be open to the public?

I believe it was originally intended to be very exclusive.  Obviously that is now out the window and we should soon hear reports from the same ole, same ole. 

[Mike Sweeney]

Jaka,

Perhaps you can barter a membership by paving the roads. Names are:

Dormie Club road
 
names adopted are: Cheape Place, Cobb Court, Coore Drive, Crail Lane, Crenshaw Court, Dormie Drive, Dunn Circle, Ellie Lane East, Ellie Lane West, Everard Lane, Hodge Drive, Hopkins Drive, Leeds Circle, Nicholson Lane, Perthshire Road, Raynor Way, Rosshire Lane, Strathaven Lane, T. Dunn Drive, T. Kidd Drive, T. Morris Drive, T. Patrick Drive and Tillinghast Lane.
Roads named in the Peacock Farms subdivision are Fox Trail Lane, Pelham Farms Drive, Warm Blood Trail NE and Warm Blood Trail NW.

[John Kavanaugh]

I hate roads named after people who are not dead.

[PCCraig]

Since Ross’s death over fifty years ago, the Tar Heel state has not been inundated with great - or even good – architecture. This area in particular has squandered its advantage of sandy soil and Dormie will provide a timely reminder as to its playing virtues.

Ran -

I know you are a member of the Dormie Club, but this statement doesn't sound correct to me. I would consider many of the courses built in the area since Ross was alive, trying to emulate #2, are not ideal or very noteworthy. However I would hardly pass off the Dormie Club's main competitor, Forest Creek, as anything sub-par. In fact I would preferr the look of many of FC's North Course to the pictures of the Dormie Club.

Maybe it is just me or maybe it is because it is just growing in, but the Dormie Club looks a little too rough around the edges.

That being said I think the Dormie Club looks great. Congrats on the construction.

[Rick Sides]

Ran,
Any idea if the Dormie Club will be open to public play?

[Ran Morrissett]

Rick,

Dormie is a private, invitation only club. There is no marketing team, no website and invitations are extended by one person.

Pat,

In terms of my use of the word ‘squandered’, there is but one modern course in the sand hills of North Carolina listed in Golf Week’s 2008 Modern Top 100 and that is the North Course at Forest Creek. Given the X square miles (I don’t know what X is but it is a lot) of sand hills here, even three or four courses on the modern list might represent a missed opportunity, at least to me. Right now, there is a single course on it and hence I used the word squandered.

Put another way, do you think the standard of the courses here is higher today or when Ross lived? I know my answer and it’s a shame. Thirty-two courses have been built here since Ross died and only one    makes the modern list (I suppose a few were built before the GolfWeek 1960 cut-off date but you get my point). That’s a miserable batting percentage, even if the South Course was also included.

Big name modern architects who charged big name fees worked with the sandy loam here. Unfortunately, the overall result of these courses is not of the same quality that the mind conjures when told of rolling sandy hills.  On a happier note, I do believe better days are ahead for golf architecture fans in this area.

Cheers,

[Rick Sides]

Ran,
Thanks for the info.  Dormie looks amazing!!!!!

[PCCraig]

Ran-

I see your point, I think the Dormie Club looks really cool and makes great use of the land.

I think your wording is a bit incorrect in that while only a couple courses built after 1960 have been on the top 100 modern list, I think the area courses fall into a shadow of the Pinehurst Resort. Prior to FC opening in 1996, there were no private clubs in the area. It was a resort town, and it still is in many ways. Most, if not all, of the non resort courses built in the area have been of the retirement housing development style, which doesn't lend itself to high rankings.

So I wouldn't say the land has been squandered as so much as there hasn't been a market for a club / course like the Dormie Club. Perhaps FC showed that the market could support a private membership club in a resort town.

[Sean_A]

Rick,

Dormie is a private, invitation only club. There is no marketing team, no website and invitations are extended by one person.

Pat,

In terms of my use of the word ‘squandered’, there is but one modern course in the sand hills of North Carolina listed in Golf Week’s 2008 Modern Top 100 and that is the North Course at Forest Creek. Given the X square miles (I don’t know what X is but it is a lot) of sand hills here, even three or four courses on the modern list might represent a missed opportunity, at least to me. Right now, there is a single course on it and hence I used the word squandered.

Put another way, do you think the standard of the courses here is higher today or when Ross lived? I know my answer and it’s a shame. Thirty-two courses have been built here since Ross died and only one    makes the modern list (I suppose a few were built before the GolfWeek 1960 cut-off date but you get my point). That’s a miserable batting percentage, even if the South Course was also included.

Big name modern architects who charged big name fees worked with the sandy loam here. Unfortunately, the overall result of these courses is not of the same quality that the mind conjures when told of rolling sandy hills.  On a happier note, I do believe better days are ahead for golf architecture fans in this area.

Cheers,

Jeepers Ran.  Wasn't this my question to you a few years back sitting in that bar in Southern Pines?  I was curious as to why, with such lovely sandy soil, the Sand Hills area hadn't produced the world wide recognized courses as say the heathland courses of London. 

Ciao

[hhuffines]

Sean,

I think most of the blame should go to the "powers" at Pinehurst CC.  Their plans to have Nicklaus and Rees Jones build courses 9 and 10 seem ridiculous now that we have seen the impressive work of C&C and Doak over the past few years.

Ran makes a good point when it comes to world class golf in Pinehurst but CCNC and Forest Creek represent the finest (imho) in 2 course facilities for
day to day member play.

As a member of Pinehurst I just hope the Dormie Club gets them thinking more outside their box for the future of their courses.

[John Shimp]

I didn't know that courses 9 and 10 were going to Nicklaus and Jones.  My opinion is that the Nicklaus/Lipe course could be pretty interesting given their recent work like May River.  Also, they don't have one yet. 

A second Rees course is odd given that they have #7 which is nothing special.  Besides C&C, Doak there are certainly others that could have been more novel, fresh.  Even Rees' brother would have been interesting given Chambers Bay excitement and originality.

[james soper]

taking on sand hills and friar's head is a tall order.

[james soper]

Dormie is a private, invitation only club. There is no marketing team, no website and invitations are extended by one person.

My invitation must have been lost in the mail.

[John Kirk]

Ran,

I have a couple of questions.  Hopefully you will see this here.  First of all, the Dormie Club looks great.

1.  What type of grasses are being used.  Just the basics, you know, bent, bermuda, blue...that kind of thing.  By pictures, it looks like bermuda fairways and bent greens, with a few fescue adornments.

2.  How wild are the greens?  Are they very complex, with every green sporting a great deal of internal contour, or are they a nice variety of complexity?  Bandon Trails is a good example of green variety, maybe a touch too tame for my liking.

3.  Does the Dormie Club have many false green fronts?  Bill and Ben use false fronts extensively at Friar's Head and Old Sandwich.

Thanks in advance, and congratulations.

[Kyle Henderson]

Put another way, do you think the standard of the courses here is higher today or when Ross lived? I know my answer and it’s a shame. Thirty-two courses have been built here since Ross died and only one    makes the modern list (I suppose a few were built before the GolfWeek 1960 cut-off date but you get my point). That’s a miserable batting percentage, even if the South Course was also included.

Is Tobacco Road included in the 32 courses to which you're referring? Between TR, Dormie (assuming it turns out as well as everyone would hope), Forest Creek and #2, there is a pretty decent sampling of quality golf in a relatively small area, even if the "batting average is only around 0.125.

How many places have 32 modern courses within a 30 mile radius? Of those, how many exceed that "batting average?"

[PCCraig]

Kyle-

Did you count both courses at FC?