Old Macdonald

[Bill_McBride]

Short and Biarritz seem as big than the largest double greens at TOC. Short may be five puttable.

Hmmm, that could be an exaggeration, Peter.  Brad Klein says the greens range in size from 8,000 to 18,000 SF; isn't #5/13 double green at TOC more than an acre (43,560 SF)? 

Would the five puttability be due to contours?  Short holes can have wonderful contours (NGLA, Mountain Lake donut).  I hope to get down there in late summer 2009 - will the course be open then? 

[Craig Van Egmond]

I think they used to call Tobacco Road .. "Pine Valley on Steriods"  ... I'd take that as a compliment.

It has became an annoying marketing phrase though.

[Mike_Cirba]

I'd like to see you putt from 150 yards, though.  Sixty yards is about the longest at which I've been able to manage the speed.

Tom,

I've gone with a longer shaft and taken a few degrees of loft off the face. 


Seriously, it's great to hear that the surrounds will be maintained tight and I'm looking forward to getting out there again once you guys are done.   

It almost sounds like some of the greens at the Sheep Ranch to me, and there isn't a more fun spot on the planet than that little grazing area. 

[Ronald Montesano]

Bill McBride...everything I've read and heard indicates 2010 as official opening.  Brad, Bahto, Doak, Urbina, others...care to dispel that rumor?

[George_Bahto]

2010 is the targeted opening date.



Neil is the most amazing putter from 150 yards out (+ & -) .....  many of have seen him do it on his home Winged Foot course and I have great memories of him doing the same at Sand Hills.

You have to see the look on players faces in your group (who have never witnessed this) when he pulls out the putter from these distances.

[Jim Nugent]

Neil is the most amazing putter from 150 yards out (+ & -) .....  many of have seen him do it on his home Winged Foot course and I have great memories of him doing the same at Sand Hills.

Does the ball stay on the ground the whole time, or does it go air bound? 

[Rob Rigg]

Neil,

What weapon allows you to be such a putter ninja from the fairways?

I am assuming the super long chin putter with an inverted double hex head is not what you use to work the magic?

So, nobody wants to touch the,

"After OMD is done, will Bandon be the number on golf destination in the world?"

question. 

[Mike Wagner]

I'll go ahead and say Bandon is the best US destination.  I'm not qualified to comment on the global scale, but the Bandon experience is the best I've ever had.  I've played Pebble/Cypress on consecutive says and would take Bandon/Pacific over it.  I've been to Bandon 11 times and it just keeps geting better...

Does it get any better for the true purist golf freak?  Not for me!

Tom, can you elaborate on the routing for us at all?  Yardage?  Any exceptionally intriguing holes - short par 4's, risk/reward par 5's.....??

I'm sure most are slivating as I am to hear as much as you are willing to offer....

Thanks!

[Ronald Montesano]

How can it not be?  Under one roof or in a general area?  Under one roof would be a gimme, a tap-in, not from Hale Irwin.  In a general area?  Does it beat Monterrey?  Are we speaking golf only or the environs and opps?  I don't know Australia well enough to comment.  Jubilee, Old Course, New Course, Kingsbarns, Castle course is a pretty tough quintet to vanquish, although I wouldn't go to St. A for the food.

[Anthony Gray]

   Bandon is No 1......Period.

[Pete_Pittock]

Bill,
   Maybe a tad. They seem big because you can see the whole green when teeing off on short and biarritz. You can't see the scope of any TOC until you get on them. The back of short is somewhat reminiscent of picture of Sitwell Park but slightly scaled back.
   I bring up the possibility of a five putt because one is fresh in my memory.

[Rob Rigg]

RM,

I was thinking "under one roof" but the question can certainly be applied to 4 courses in a fairly close area. Although, it reality, the comparison is only fair if we look at public courses.

re: the experience - I was thinking pure golf - ie) what the people on this site are seeking when they go on a golf trip.

I am sure the wine tasting and cuisine in Cali is superior in and around Monterrey but can you find 4 courses there, or in North Carolina, Long Island, Scotland, Ireland or Australia, that will be of such quality (counting one chicken before it has hatched)?

Oregon is the proud owner of the best golf destination in the world! 
Go Ducks! I mean Puffin, Seals, Butterfly and . . . Cow (for OMD?)

[Jed Peters]

RM,

I was thinking "under one roof" but the question can certainly be applied to 4 courses in a fairly close area. Although, it reality, the comparison is only fair if we look at public courses.

re: the experience - I was thinking pure golf - ie) what the people on this site are seeking when they go on a golf trip.

I am sure the wine tasting and cuisine in Cali is superior in and around Monterrey but can you find 4 courses there, or in North Carolina, Long Island, Scotland, Ireland or Australia, that will be of such quality (counting one chicken before it has hatched)?

Rob:

If you're thinking "pure golf" with no issues with access, then "town" of Pebble Beach, CA inside the gates of 17 mile drive on the Monterey Peninsula beats Bandon.

I'd take:

Cypress
Pebble
MPCC Dunes/Shore
Spyglass

Over Bandon's offerings.

And I've never played Cypress!

[Mark Smolens]

Mr. Peters, that might be true if I could go on Pebble's website and make tee times at Cypress and MPCC, but I don't think I can.  On the other hand, I can book my stay in the Lily Pond cottage and make tee times on three (soon to be four) incredible golf courses, and once I check in I won't need to drive an -- the lovely Wendy will pick me up in a shuttle and take me to my appointed rounds for the day. . .

[Ronald Montesano]

If you haven't been to Kohler, the four courses there are god-awful good.  Some of the holes (17 on Irish, for example, 4 on Straits) would be better holes on other courses, but that ain't no biggee.  You have more variety at Kohler than at Bandon, too.  Funny thing is, I liked Bandon Trails the most for its diversity, although I loved PTrails and Dunes equally well for their inspiration and playability.

[Mark Smolens]

While I love Kohler, I can play two rounds at Bandon for the price of one round on the Straits course.  Plus, all three courses at Bandon will let me play the ground game, and none at Kohler will.  On the other hand, I can get to Kohler in less than three hours.  Options are always nice. . .

[Jed Peters]

Mr. Peters, that might be true if I could go on Pebble's website and make tee times at Cypress and MPCC, but I don't think I can.  On the other hand, I can book my stay in the Lily Pond cottage and make tee times on three (soon to be four) incredible golf courses, and once I check in I won't need to drive an -- the lovely Wendy will pick me up in a shuttle and take me to my appointed rounds for the day. . .

Mark,

Mr. Rigg referred to "pure" golf in a central area, not under one resort's thumb, etc.

And I'd consider the ones in Pebble beach to be in VERY close proximity to each other. MPCC, Spanish Bay, Cypress, and Spyglass can all be seen at one time from each other. I don't know a place at Bandon where you can see all the courses--except maybe from above 1 green on Trails.

[Norbert P]

  ". . .  "green complexes" and other overused expressions . . . "

?   Why is this term inaccurate or annoying?  I use the term often and like to think that the term opens the eyes to the periphery of a green and how it ties together with the surrounds and backgrounds, etc. 

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  The concepts of Old Mac makes this course perhaps one of the most educational courses that one can play, anywhere, without being a fleeting novelty item. From what I've seen on a recent excursion, this course will stand the test of time as a great one. Being a GC hobbyist, with toes in the water of the business, I found it rather compelling to explore and examine. I've never been to most of the original models of the concepts and features beyond pictures and descriptions in books and the "interweb", but in the hands of those building this course, I feel confident that it will make a positive and elevating impression on the resorts reputation.  With the proven results of the other Bandon courses, this course, now teasingly rubbing elbows with Pacific's 14th and 15th holes, will only add to the mystique of the most exciting collection of publicly accessible  golf courses in America.   I'm not high on "Best lists", and I'm obviously biased by being an Oregonian, but spending time in Bandon has never left me less than energized. 

 

[Mark Smolens]

Mr. P, while I don't agree that one may properly "leave aside" the access issues (one of the hardest things about driving on 17 Mile Drive is the knowledge that I can't just turn in to Cypress and tee it up -- tho in my only prior visit to Monterrey I did have my boss stop the van so I could jump the fence and stand on the tee of one of the best par-3s on the planet), having been to each place only 1 time, I don't think that Monterrey will be a dead bang winner once the new course opens at Bandon.

[Jed Peters]

Mr. P, while I don't agree that one may properly "leave aside" the access issues (one of the hardest things about driving on 17 Mile Drive is the knowledge that I can't just turn in to Cypress and tee it up -- tho in my only prior visit to Monterrey I did have my boss stop the van so I could jump the fence and stand on the tee of one of the best par-3s on the planet), having been to each place only 1 time, I don't think that Monterrey will be a dead bang winner once the new course opens at Bandon.

I hear what you're saying.

And I'd like to say that I'm making my 7th pilgramage to Bandon this coming February, and I'm hoping beyond hope that I have a chance to see Old Mac....I'm a HUGE fan of Tom Doak's architecture (not kissing ass here, but it's bordering on genius--his only peer as I see it is C&C in the modern era!) and can only think that Old Mac will be among the world's greats....