Ravisloe status??

[PThomas]

i ran into another former member from there yesterday and he said the club is being sold tomorrow...can anyone confirm this, thanks

[Steve_ Shaffer]

http://www.chicagolandgolf.com/blog1/?p=497#more-497

Call Phil Kosin?

[Joel_Stewart]

I saw an article today saying the club was sold and will reopen as a public golf course.  Green fees $65 to $85

http://www.southtownstar.com/news/1453930,022809ravisloe.article

[PThomas]

thanks Joel

good news, i hope it makes it.....certainly one of the best public courses in Chicago

[Tim_Cronin]

Scheduled reopening is April 1. The old GM is being retained. Tennis courts will be open, pool will be closed, at least this year. The new owner says he doesn't play golf but is a fan of green space.

[PCCraig]

The best part of the article is that it can be walked for $49.

I smell a mini-GCA outing!

[Adam Clayman]

I'd agree with Paul that if it does go public, it would be one of the best in Chicago. However, that speaks more to the way the existing courses have been disfigured, or, the lack thereof.

I might just have to come to Chicago and see what Rees has done with the Joe Lee design of old @ Cog Hill. Please don't bother pointing out it has Dick Wilson's name on it. Honestly, I do wish only the best for the Jemsek's. I just doubt they know what that is.

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Good news!!

I'm planning a trip to Chicago this summer.

[PCCraig]

I'd agree with Paul that if it does go public, it would be one of the best in Chicago. However, that speaks more to the way the existing courses have been disfigured, or, the lack thereof.

I might just have to come to Chicago and see what Rees has done with the Joe Lee design of old @ Cog Hill. Please don't bother pointing out it has Dick Wilson's name on it. Honestly, I do wish only the best for the Jemsek's. I just doubt they know what that is.

That is interesting that you would think Ravisloe would be one of the best publics now in Chicago, that is up for later discussion once I get out there. I am not familiar with the south suburbs but off hand I can't think of any good publics that way other than maybe Harborside?

Can you elaborate on "Honestly, I do wish only the best for the Jemsek's. I just doubt they know what that is."

[PCCraig]

Ravisloe CC sold, will remain open as public course
Ravisloe Country Club will remain open, but not for a 108th year as a private club. It has been sold to a wealthy veterinarian and will reopen as an 18-hole public golf course on April 1.

The sale price of the financially-troubled private club was not announced, but sources are placing it in the neighborhood of $3.5 million. Ownership was previously held by the club’s equity members, .

The new owner is said to be green-minded and interested in preserving the 160 acres of grass and trees.

The course in south suburban Homewood has long been inaccurately touted as a “Donald Ross course”.

Rather, the original nine holes were designed by James Foulis. Architect Willie Watson — working with club professional Robert White and president Alek Bauer — expanded the course to 18 holes around 1910.

Donald Ross was brought in to make some ”changes” around 1920, but there is uncertainty to what extent due to a lack of records.




That is from Phil Kosin's Chicago Golf Blog...is this correct that this is actually NOT a Ross course?

[Dan Moore]

Pat,

Yes, its not a Ross course although Ross did some renovation work there.  From what I've been able to document Ross redid the 18th green and par 3 15th.

This is a coup for Chicago area public golfers.   

I explained what I know about the architectural history in some depth on this thread which also has photos of Ravisloe.

http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=904f827d4ce7aa23f55e4d404ea4d84c&topic=37692.0

[PCCraig]

How is the market in general for public golf down in the south suburbs?

How has the other private turned public (Coyote Run?) done?

Do you think the maintenance and operating budget will be slashed?

[SL_Solow]

Pat;  Coyote Run was never a private.  It was a public fees course called Cherry Hills and was pretty bad although as a kid some 45 years ago it was a fun place to spend a few hours learning to play.  The Flossmoor Park district took over, had a complete redesign and hired the great Dave Ward away from Olympia Fields to be the manager/superintendent.  From all reports it is doing fine.  As amuni, it is likely to have a different price point and cachet than Ravisloe.

[PCCraig]

Pat;  Coyote Run was never a private.  It was a public fees course called Cherry Hills and was pretty bad although as a kid some 45 years ago it was a fun place to spend a few hours learning to play.  The Flossmoor Park district took over, had a complete redesign and hired the great Dave Ward away from Olympia Fields to be the manager/superintendent.  From all reports it is doing fine.  As amuni, it is likely to have a different price point and cachet than Ravisloe.

Can the south suburbs support an upscale, non-championship (at 6400 yards), muni?

[Adam Clayman]

That is interesting that you would think Ravisloe would be one of the best publics now in Chicago, that is up for later discussion once I get out there. I am not familiar with the south suburbs but off hand I can't think of any good publics that way other than maybe Harborside?

Can you elaborate on "Honestly, I do wish only the best for the Jemsek's. I just doubt they know what that is."

Pat, If you are under the impression that Harborside is a quality design, there's probably not much to discuss. Chicagoland is a huge disappointment when it comes to quality architecture on the public side. Not that there aren't courses with some great bones, but with the proliferation of all the wrong roads taken in GCA, Chicagoland epitomizes how appeasing the lowest common denominator leads to a ruination of principles.

I knew old Joe Jemsek and he is the reason why I wish the family well.

[Tim_Cronin]

As I think Dan can confirm, Ross was at Ravisloe on at least two occasions in back-to-back years, heading up a renovation that I think is more wide-ranging than Dan mentioned. I'm out of town, but I recall a diagram of a Ross Ravisloe hole running in a Chicago paper. (And Dan, I'll fax it to you if I find it, with the Exmoor stuff, soon!)

[Dan Moore]

Here is some low hanging fruit.

American Golfer April 1921

Ravisloe Much Improved

The Ravisloe officials have opened
their new 165-yard fifteenth hole
for play and this, together with the
changes in the sixteenth, has strengthened
the last nine holes greatly. The
new fifteenth hole calls for a half midiron
shot from a tee on a slight elevation
across a little valley, through
which runs a brook, to a sloping green
on the further hillside. Between the
brook and the front edge of the green
there are two hazards which must be
carried and these hazards are located
exactly right. If they were nearer
the green the hole would call for too
exacting a shot, but as it is there is a
little room for the ball to strike the
ground short of the green and run
up to the flag. There are bunkers
at the back and sides of the green and
the new hole is excellent in every
particular.

The opening of this hole for play
has enabled the officials to use the
new sixteenth tee. This lengthens the
hole some fifty yards and provides a
carry of two hundred yards over the
big hazard on your tee shot. The
drive here is now a real test of wooden
club play and, while a little severe
for the average golfer, there is room
to play around the left end of the
hazard for those who do not care to
go for the carry. Several new bunkers
have been constructed around the
green and the hole is greatly improved.
Other changes have been
made in the course and Ravisloe today
is one of the finest tests of golf
to be found in the west.

And a photo of the 15th Hole post Dave Esler's bunker work. 

[PCCraig]

That is interesting that you would think Ravisloe would be one of the best publics now in Chicago, that is up for later discussion once I get out there. I am not familiar with the south suburbs but off hand I can't think of any good publics that way other than maybe Harborside?

Can you elaborate on "Honestly, I do wish only the best for the Jemsek's. I just doubt they know what that is."

Pat, If you are under the impression that Harborside is a quality design, there's probably not much to discuss. Chicagoland is a huge disappointment when it comes to quality architecture on the public side. Not that there aren't courses with some great bones, but with the proliferation of all the wrong roads taken in GCA, Chicagoland epitomizes how appeasing the lowest common denominator leads to a ruination of principles.

I knew old Joe Jemsek and he is the reason why I wish the family well.

Adam-

I didn't say it was quality. I was trying to say that, at first thought, Harborside is really the only halfway decent public course south worth driving from the city or northside to play. Of course there are good and great privates down there...but I couldn't think of any good publics.

[Adam Clayman]

Pat, I suppose it is no longer fair for me to comment. My local knowledge of Chicagoland Public golf is now almost decades old.

Before I became a golf course snob, I would travel to all areas of the metropolis to golf. Back then,  ignorant of what was going on with the architecture, only upon reflection do I realize how those courses made me feel.

When was the last time you played Jackson Park?
Bon Vivant?
Balmoral Woods?
Forest Preserve nat'l?
Those were my old southside haunts along with a few others like Evergreen and a few I just can't remember.

[PThomas]

Evergreen is in sorry shape Adam...went out their with my daughter for the first time in 15 years and maintenance was quite poor

Forest Preserve Nat had also been going to pot...but i think Billy Casper golf is now managing and i think its better..i will have to out there this year

one of the better publics i think is in Channahan near Joliet is Heritage Bluffs..actually has some elevation and is definitely in my top 10/top 5?! chicago publics

and Coyote Run is also pretty nice too/worth playing

Ravisloe will easily make the top 10 public list

if you get back to town let me know and hopefulyy we could have a game and/or dinner

[tlavin]

The state of public golf in Chicagoland is somewhat lacking, IMHO.  I would think that Ravisloe would immediately take a place in the Top Ten, based on the current competition, but it remains to be seen how the course is maintained.  If they maintain it at the same level as the private club did, I think it has a chance to occupy a unique spot; namely that of a classic course with great maintenance that everybody can play.  I can't think of another course in the area that could make that claim.  Glenwoodie and Balmoral are fine public courses that have neither the architectural street cred of Ravisloe nor the maintenance standards.  Pine Meadow and Dubsdread are very good golf courses, but they are decidedly more modern and brawny.  A lot of people like Cantigny and Thunderhawk, but I've only played Cantigny and was underwhelmed.  The Harborside courses are a nice option in terms of location and views, but they courses themselves are incredibly mundane and that project remains an unrealized vision.  I'm a big fan of Big Run, but they really need to work on the course.  It probably has more potential than any public course out there, but they need new turf and they need to correct some of the elevation and slope issues that make the course occasionally unfair to play. 

As a private course, Ravisloe was surely on the lower tier of interest.  It is relatively flat, not that difficult and it was very much a poor sister when compared to the other privates of the same vintage.  That being said, David Esler's work was a very welcome perking up of a layout that had really gotten tired.  It could be a nice breath of fresh air for the public golf market, but the demand for any kind of golf is going to be low for quite some time.  We'll have to wait and see if the new owner spends enough cash to maintain the course well and we'll have to see if the "public" is willing to pay the freight to play the course.  There are a lot of options out there.  I'm relatively pessimistic about the club's prospects.

[PCCraig]

The state of public golf in Chicagoland is somewhat lacking, IMHO.  I would think that Ravisloe would immediately take a place in the Top Ten, based on the current competition, but it remains to be seen how the course is maintained.  If they maintain it at the same level as the private club did, I think it has a chance to occupy a unique spot; namely that of a classic course with great maintenance that everybody can play.  I can't think of another course in the area that could make that claim.  Glenwoodie and Balmoral are fine public courses that have neither the architectural street cred of Ravisloe nor the maintenance standards.  Pine Meadow and Dubsdread are very good golf courses, but they are decidedly more modern and brawny.  A lot of people like Cantigny and Thunderhawk, but I've only played Cantigny and was underwhelmed.  The Harborside courses are a nice option in terms of location and views, but they courses themselves are incredibly mundane and that project remains an unrealized vision.  I'm a big fan of Big Run, but they really need to work on the course.  It probably has more potential than any public course out there, but they need new turf and they need to correct some of the elevation and slope issues that make the course occasionally unfair to play. 

As a private course, Ravisloe was surely on the lower tier of interest.  It is relatively flat, not that difficult and it was very much a poor sister when compared to the other privates of the same vintage.  That being said, David Esler's work was a very welcome perking up of a layout that had really gotten tired.  It could be a nice breath of fresh air for the public golf market, but the demand for any kind of golf is going to be low for quite some time.  We'll have to wait and see if the new owner spends enough cash to maintain the course well and we'll have to see if the "public" is willing to pay the freight to play the course.  There are a lot of options out there.  I'm relatively pessimistic about the club's prospects.

At $50 walking it is a far better deal than $100+ at many other of the golf courses you mentioned above.

I find it funny that people on here knock the public golf in Chicago...clearly you haven't lived in Boston or New York!!! Boston was horrible, $60-70 greens fees for crap munis, 1-2 hour drives to decent (and I mean only hardly decent) publics, and no courses available through decent public transport. Ravisloe, if public in Boston, would be a $150 greens fee.

Chicago has public courses actually in the city itself, public courses everywhere, and semi-cheap, decent options. They may not be GCA-quality, but they aren't too bad.

[Jeff Goldman]

It might be tough to sell a 6300 yard course to the public, though I agree it is above most of what is out there on the public side from a GCA standpoint.  One interesting issue is the drive into the club across the 10th(?) fairway.  When it was private, everyone knew to watch out, but it could be a big headache as a public course.

[Mark Smolens]

Bon Vivant is closed.  George Dunne nee Forest Preserve National is still a work in progress with Billy Casper Golf attempting to return it to the halcyon days when people had to park on Central at 3 a.m. in order to get a tee time (unless you were a deputy sheriff with an insider's clout to avoid the line!).  In our Weekly Challenge tournament there last season you were allowed to remove stones larger than a quarter from the bunkers.  Many of the bunkers were gur due to work being done.

Balmoral Woods remains an excellent value for a fun round of golf.  Several very interesting holes, but too many mediocre ones for the course to be top notch.  When the greens are cut to be quick, however, a real test. . .

Heritage Bluffs is another "southern" course offering great value, but a long hike from the Loop.  Cinder Ridge is even further south on I-55, but worth one trip per season.

I've never been impressed by Coyote Crossing.  Feels claustrophobic to me, but not due to impingement by housing.  I'd go Balmoral or even Jackson Park (fun old fashioned golf on one of the oldest courses in the District -- gotta love it when some guy walks off the street to join your group on the 4th tee!).

As Mr. Lavin notes, Rav was great when its greens were maintained at private club conditions.  One wonders if that will change under new ownership advertising "affordable" public golf.  Only time will tell. . .

Harborside is overpriced due to its proximity to and ease of access the from downtown market.  If they would turn off the damn sprinklers in the fairways and allow the course to play f and f, it would be better than just about any public option in Chicago imo -- but they seem unwilling to do that.  Acc. to a discussion I had with Tim Nugent, there are no environmental reasons for the sopping wet conditions with which their fairways are maintained, but it can be a real slog going around those golf courses.

Not sure which of the nines Mr. Lavin played, but I would rate Cantigny much higher than he does.  Very often maintained to permit the ball to run in the fairways, allows even us bunters to play with the big hitters from way back.  Thunderhawk is okay, but I would frankly rather spend much less $$ and play Shepard's Crook in Zion.

We do have a ton of options here in the Windy City for public access golf.  Problem is, the season's too damn short.  Oh well, off to visit Mom tomorrow like the good son I am (Papago at noon!).

[PThomas]

boy i wish someone would build a Wild Horse quality course on some farmland around Chicago.....but i guess the price of the land would cause super high green fees