Doak to design new couse at Black Mesa

[Andy Troeger]

Andy and I played 36 out there over the weekend.

I thought the golf was fantastic overall, but am still processing/musing it over.

In general I liked the back 9 better than the front 9.  7 and 14 are two terrific short par 4s...my favorite going to #14, a world class short par 4 in my opinion.

#15 was a bit of a disappointment and 16 was certainly a WTF hole, especially when you get your 1st glimpse coming off the back of 15.  Still trying to decide if I like 16 or not, but that would be my only "complaints" about an otherwise terrific back 9.

I took some pics and I'll post up a few of them with more discussion in a new thread.

P.S.  Saw the land for the 2nd course that will probably never happen based on the new economy of the last 3-4 years and going into the foreseeable future.  Looks like it could be some good stuff out that way, even if the terrain isn't nearly as severe....

Kalen:

Hopefully you're wrong about that.

How busy was the first course this weekend?

When has Kalen been right about anything?

I'm still waiting for the blind squirrel bit, but no luck so far!

I was amazed at how much tougher the tee shot on #18 was from 25 yards farther back. From the 375 tee downhill with some roll out its a hybrid and maybe a 9-iron/wedge to a pretty big green. Move back 25 yards and into a bit of a breeze and I ended up in the ditch twice (and made 5 and 4 from there).

The course isn't as firm right now as it used to be, and the greens are slower than I'm used to. I really had a hard time getting used to them the first round. They are admittedly really slow right now. It looks like they are doing what they can with a pretty minimal maintenance budget--the turf itself is ok, but its a better course when it rolls out further on the fairways and greens. The dandelions are little distracting admittedly.

Its a tough walk, but the guys we played with were locals that I'm assuming walk it all the time. Yeah, its a tougher walk than Chambers, but its certainly do-able. The group behind us walked, and they all appeared to be north of 50 years old. The reason the guys with us struggled some was that they sent us off as a 5-some because they brought an extra guy not realizing how busy it would be. They sent us off anyway and so they were trying to move it so we didn't lag behind--its not a course I'd want to speed-walk! They looked tired afterward, but I think Kalen is overstating that by a lot.
 
I don't think losing the bunkers is a big deal--there are still plenty of them. They don't make or break the course truthfully. I still like the course more than Kalen does, but it took me a few plays to get there. I also think #16 is pretty dang cool.

[Kalen Braley]

And truth be told, so I don't give the wrong impression.

Black Mesa made my personal top 10 list of favorite courses..so I did really like it.  But I don't think its in that upper echelon of elite courses, (Doak 9s and 10s) that it seems some have been comparing it to.

I thought holes like 5 and 8 on the front were only somewhat interesting, and then with like em or hate em holes like 15 and 16 on the back, it didn't help its cause.  Additionally 10 and 12 looked a whole lot better in pictures than how they played...although the tee shot on 10 is pretty neat.

[Bill_McBride]

Kalen, I'm a big fan, would give Black Mesa a Doak 7 based on the 7's and 8's he listed.   

[Andy Troeger]

Its interesting, I did not care for #10 at all the first 2-3 times I played it, but I've learned to like it. It doesn't fit my eye or my shot shape at all, and I hit it right twice more Saturday, but its a pretty cool risk/reward shot and the green is fantastic. I've never felt like #12 was one of the best holes out there, but its still reasonably good.  For me, its an 8 minimum even without the roll-out. Very few places compare to Pacific Dunes, but I think Black Mesa is pretty close to Chambers Bay in terms of quality.

One other thing I tend to forget about when I don't visit often enough, is that the vistas from a number of places at Black Mesa are just tremendous. You can see for miles with some pretty cool mountain views. Even though the course isn't far from a pretty major road, most of the time you feel like you're in a pretty isolated setting. There aren't many places better for under $100 ($87 to ride on a weekend morning)with replay around $35.

[Kalen Braley]

Bill,

Its a 7.5 in my book, so certainly some great stuff out there.

And as Andy mentioned, it really is a great value for what you get when considering you can play two rounds for $120.....

P.S..  All the blind/semi-blind shots didn't bother me much, kind of added to the quirk.

[Garland Bayley]

...

P.S..  All the blind/semi-blind shots didn't bother me much, kind of added to the quirk.

You were sitting in a cart with a big screen GPS showing you everything. That is the definition of anti-quirk.

[Kalen Braley]

Garland,

The animations weren't that good.  And the only time I personally used the GPS was to determine yardage to the green when I couldn't find a sprinkler head.

[Garland Bayley]

Garland,

The animations weren't that good.  And the only time I personally used the GPS was to determine yardage to the green when I couldn't find a sprinkler head.

Infinitely better than standing on the ground looking at a blind shot with no such aid.

[Kalen Braley]

Garland,

The animations weren't that good.  And the only time I personally used the GPS was to determine yardage to the green when I couldn't find a sprinkler head.

Infinitely better than standing on the ground looking at a blind shot with no such aid.

But thats exactly what I did on hole #1 tee, #2 tee, 2nd shot on #6, #7 tee, #10 tee, 2nd shot on #13, 2nd shot on #16, and #17 tee.....all without aid from the GPS.  Although I did ask my playing partners a few questions...

[Garland Bayley]

Garland,

The animations weren't that good.  And the only time I personally used the GPS was to determine yardage to the green when I couldn't find a sprinkler head.

Infinitely better than standing on the ground looking at a blind shot with no such aid.

But thats exactly what I did on hole #1 tee, #2 tee, 2nd shot on #6, #7 tee, #10 tee, 2nd shot on #13, 2nd shot on #16, and #17 tee.....all without aid from the GPS.  Although I did ask my playing partners a few questions...

So you don't subscribe to Matt Ward's premise that there are no blind shots at BM?

[Kalen Braley]

Garland,

The animations weren't that good.  And the only time I personally used the GPS was to determine yardage to the green when I couldn't find a sprinkler head.

Infinitely better than standing on the ground looking at a blind shot with no such aid.

But thats exactly what I did on hole #1 tee, #2 tee, 2nd shot on #6, #7 tee, #10 tee, 2nd shot on #13, 2nd shot on #16, and #17 tee.....all without aid from the GPS.  Although I did ask my playing partners a few questions...

So you don't subscribe to Matt Ward's premise that there are no blind shots at BM?

Well now...that wouldn't be the 1st time MW had a faulty premise! 

[James Brown]

Resurrecting this thread.  Looks like Black Mesa has had a turn for the better in the last year.  Is there any further consideration of a second course?

[Tom_Doak]

Resurrecting this thread.  Looks like Black Mesa has had a turn for the better in the last year.  Is there any further consideration of a second course?

Not that I know of.  I don't know whom the client would be ... I haven't heard Eddie Peck's name in a long time.


But at least my routing for it will be chronicled in my routing books, eventually.

[Ryan Farrow]

Resurrecting this thread.  Looks like Black Mesa has had a turn for the better in the last year.  Is there any further consideration of a second course?

If a turn for the better means a new fleet of golf carts and grassing in fairway bunkers.




Have the turf conditions improved? That seemed to be the biggest issue the past few years. 

[James Brown]

Resurrecting this thread.  Looks like Black Mesa has had a turn for the better in the last year.  Is there any further consideration of a second course?

Not that I know of.  I don't know whom the client would be ... I haven't heard Eddie Peck's name in a long time.


But at least my routing for it will be chronicled in my routing books, eventually.

It’s such a great piece of property for golf[size=78%].  Did your design play out of the same clubhouse and work south and east?[/size]

[astavrides]

Resurrecting this thread.  Looks like Black Mesa has had a turn for the better in the last year.  Is there any further consideration of a second course?

If a turn for the better means a new fleet of golf carts and grassing in fairway bunkers.




Have the turf conditions improved? That seemed to be the biggest issue the past few years.

I was out there yesterday. I live about 80 minutes away, but had only been out there about once a year because of the conditions.


Indeed the turf has improved remarkably. Apparently, they have a new pump to bring in river (Rio Grande) water, and they have been using it liberally. The fairways are pretty immaculate, and the ball sits up in them. Not playing firm and fast, but the first step, I think, is to have grass. I wouldn't say they are overly soft either, but I teed off ~11am. Not sure how they would be at 8 am. Greens are good, except for a few diseased patched on about 3 of them. Rough is still spotty, with a lot of bare patches and some spots with funky (crab grass?) patches. Bunkers are still mostly dried mud. I was told all the fairway bunkers will be filled in, but not the greenside ones. Some of each kind had already been filled in. Still a very good course, and I wouldn't hesitate to go back or to recommend it to people despite the condition of the bunkers and rough. $59 Saturday green fee, included cart and range. Only 5 carts went out after me. Not sure how much play they got in the morning, but I didn't see too many people out there. It was a near record hot day though (100 degrees).


Inveterate walkers stop reading here.
 
New gravel on about half the cart paths to reduce the dust bowl effect. And I'm not sure the new carts were the best use of money, but I do like them.