Which will be more painful

[David Kelly]

Brian,
I don't need to "steady on" whatever that means. I said nothing about Islam being a bad religion I said Islamists are wrong. Find out what an Islamist is before you rush to their defense and misinterpret my words. An Islamist is not just someone who believes in the Islamic religion.  There aren't a billion of them but there are millions. And now I'll drop the matter.

[Gib_Papazian]

Brian,

All these goo goo "one-worlders" have been trying to force feed soccer on this country since the 70's. Where do you think the term "Soccer Mom" came from in this nation?

Kids get run like cattle through these soccer leagues in grade-school in what has become almost a required activity.

In my generation, we did not play soccer. As a matter of fact, we did not need a bunch of adults to organize actitivies for us. We just got the neighborhood kids together, divided up teams and played . . . . baseball, basketball, football . . . . . soccer? Please.

Despite this attempt to reinvent the American culture and the traditional childhood experience in this country, kids give up soccer the moment parents quit dragging them to games.

Ever see a bunch of kids BORN IN THIS COUNTRY actually organize a sandlot game of soccer amongst themselves? I have never seen it once.

Soccer is like the metric system. They tried to convert us in grade school and 30 years later we still use feet, inches and yards.

[Brian Phillips]

David,

You said a billion islamists not me I just repeated your number.

In fact there are approximately 1.8 billion people that believe in Islam the religion of muslims.  The actual official figure is just over 1 billion.

I lived in Malaysia for five years and studied the Koran, wrote Jawi (arabic writing in Malay)  and was fluent in Malay so you don't need to tell me about Islam.

Don't write about things if you don't want to discuss them.  If you don't want to discuss it here fair enough.  E-mail me if you want to.

You brought religion onto a sports page not me, I just gave my opinion on you bad mouthing Islamists by saying they were wrong, wrong about what?  That they believe in Mohammad but you probably believe in another religion?

Definition of Islam:
religion of muslims, a monotheistic faith regarded as revealed through Muhammad as the pophet of Allah.

DERIVATIVE: Islamist noun.

I do know, I do understand and I do care but I am nice about it.

Steady on means relax don't get so hostile.

You just chose an arguement with someone that does know about it.

Brian.  

[Dave_Miller]

Gib:
Well said and completely true.  The fun of playing all sports when I was a kid was just what you said.  No adults.  There is a school with a ball field right around the corner from my house.  I never see any kids just come and play.  It's all organized.  Soccer, I shudder at the thought.  All three of my kids did play in grade school and quit when they got to high school in favor of more sensible and less inane sports.

Cheers,
Dave

[Slag_Bandoon]

 

 Is golf God's favorite game?   Golfers His/Her favoured people? This whole thread is a revelation of intolerance.  

[A_Clay_Man]

The most painful....

Reading this thread!!

It's funny that some think soccer is boring, especiallty at world cup level. The abilities and conditioning of these athletes is by far more than most any sport. Grant it, Ballet requires more.
In Basketball when a guy fakes a charge is that honorable. Do you actually think spud webb can knock over vladie divats?

I played Football (h.s. only),basketbal and Soccer in HS and college and have been defending the merits of soccer longer than I care to remember, and the truth is, that those that "don't get it" fail to appreciate the little things that make every move, poetry in motion.

BTW, the most exciting Basketball game I ever witnessed ended with a 13-9 score. It was between an over matched New Treir East team that stalled the whole game against Maine South. Every single pass and bounce of the ball was crucial and therefore most exciting.

So, I'll bet I could find a billion more people who think Golf is the most gawd awful boringest thing.

[David Kelly]

Brian,
Nowhere am I being hostile to anyone. Reread what I wrote. I said they are wrong.

Again I don't think that you understand the distinction between Islam (as a religion and culture) and the modern day fundamentalist-political movement known as Islamism.

The Taliban, Al-Queda, Hezbollah, Islamic Jihad, the people who flew those planes into the World Trade Center are Islamists, the people who crush gay people under walls and execute women for adultery and relegate women to the periphery of society, the people who executed Daniel Pearl because he was a Jew - these people and their supporters are Islamists. That is the term.

Again I'll correct myself and say that there are not a billion Islamists.

[David Wigler]

A_Clay_Man,

Come on.  Soccer players are the best-conditioned athletes.  You have to be kidding.  For the vast majority of the game they stand around.  Even when they have the ball, they walk as much as run.  Any real running is very short bursts.  

I may not like their attitudes, or actions but I think there is little question that NBA Basketball players are the best-conditioned athletes (With Hockey players not far behind).  I would put soccer players ahead of baseball players and probably ahead of football players but no further.

Gib (And to help Brian understand),

Cheerleaders went to the football games.  That is the real reason none of us played soccer as we got older.  The kids who played soccer were the ones who were not tough enough to play football, had no chance at a cheerleader anyway, or had parents who would not let them play football.  I cannot imagine America ever becoming competitive in the sport until the captain of the cheerleading squad starts dating the sweeper (See I did try to watch a little of the world cup - I have no idea what a sweeper is but I heard one of the players described as such  ).

[Paul Turner]

David

Obviously spoken by a man who hasn't played 90 minutes of the beautiful game; it's exhausting (Rugby is even worse).

Whereas, your "football" is the one where everyone stops for a rest every 20 seconds.

[Gib_Papazian]

David,

Have you ever seen a cheerleader at a high school golf match?

There are more kids with a keen interest to play on America's high school golf teams than soccer.

Your libido is running away with your reasoning ability.

[Willie_Dow]

Dave Miller

You have our Merion Pro, and I wonder about his attachment for hockey.  Forgot to ask him about this before he went north.

I'll be up there next week, playing Kittansett, Thursday, and I'd like to know you.

Willie

[Willie_Dow]

Brian

I hope you look at our day at Merion as an answer.

Not to something that we can say will correct the world, but to say something that will quiet things for a while.

Like golf architecture, things must evolve!  Bunkers must drain, but let's not bring in new thinking without studying the past storms.

Still trying to figure out the picture at # 4.

Willie

[A_Clay_Man]

David- As I stated I played both, so I wasn't kidding. I can easily see how your opinion is formed but your belief doesn't make it so. It is my belief that you are wrong.

I don't want this to turn into a non-ending waste of cyberspace so I'll just agree to disagree.
BTW Youth soccer does not count.
And Hockey players are about as out of shape as NBA stars.

It does sound wierd to say it but there is a certain level that an NBA or NHL guy reaches as it pertains to his overall shape but  a soccer player has to have the endurance to go the whole game.

I doubt i'll convince you and know for a fact you cannot convince me but I again stand on MY experiences and they are not vicarious.

[Chris J]

Don't care that most Americans dislike soccer, I find their football tedious beyond belief.  

I mean, how can you take a sport seriously that has 50 odd players, including some serious tubs of lard; last for 3-4 hours, and when it does finally reach its climax (Superbowl) the highlight for most viewers is the commercial break at half time!

[guest]

Chris,
Nobody is asking you to take football seriously. Don't watch it. In fact as far as I'm concerned I could care less about the NFL's European league, they are wasting their time.

It is the soccer fan who for whatever reason can't stand the fact that the US doesn't embrace the sport. Every 4 years when the World Cup rolls around we here in the USA have to read endless stories about what a great sport it is, how if we understood it it wouldn't seem so boring and how it will eventually become a major sport over here.  Why is is so important to the rest of the world that the United States learns to love soccer?

I am sure that football, baseball and hockey seem very strange to most people in the rest of the world. So don't watch it.

[Gib_Papazian]

One thing that has always bothered me about this World Cup stuff is the behavior of the crowds.

I remember a few years back when (I think) Columbia and Chile played a pre-World Cup match in Oakland at the outdoor stadium.

We took BART (the "subway") that night because the Grateful Dead were playing at the indoor stadium next door. The walkway was a pool of glass, vomit, urine and trash as thousands of drunken immigrants marched around waving rags at each other that looked vaguely like national flags.

Can you imagine a soccer crowd that makes thousands of traveling Deadheads next door look like a gentile garden party in Palo Alto?

After the game - I still don't know who won - these soccer loonies were driving down the streets in Burlingame and San Mateo honking their horns, waving flags and generally making a nuisance of themselves. Not one person in 50 on the street had the foggiest idea what the fuss was about.

It is not like we have a large population of Columbians or Chileans to begin with in the first place, but this was 30 miles from the site of the game!

Irrelevant. But they don't get it.

I think that the Wolrd Cup is little more than a form of warfare for many of these nations. England play Argentina . . . . and the newspapers write stories about revenge for the Falkland war. Must be a slow news day.

I suppose it all comes down to an incident I remember on the produce market.

There was a match between Mexico and the U.S. - something everyone was barely aware of. But on the market, with a large Mexican population, every radio was blaring the play-by-play in Spanish.

At one point Mexico scored and the entire terminal erupted in cheers . . . . . the only problem was that most of these guys were born in this country.

I asked a guy named Cesar, whose parents left Mexico for a better life and who earned a substantial salary - why he was pumping his fist and jumping up and down?

"You were born here, right?" I asked.

"Yeah," he said, "so what?"

"Why are you jumping up and down for a country that your family left because they were repressed and impoverished?"

"Hey man," said Cesar, "when it comes to the World Cup, I am a Mexican first and I hope *we* kick America's ass."

Having pride in your ancestry is all well and good, but it is not like I am going to get up at 2am to watch the Armenian World Cup team play Azerbajian.

This has nothing to do with kicking a ball into a net . . . the World Cup raises deeper and far more complex issues than who has a better soccer team.

[Kevin_Reilly]

David

Obviously spoken by a man who hasn't played 90 minutes of the beautiful game; it's exhausting (Rugby is even worse).

Paul,

Yes!  Rugby Union is the most physically demanding game I ever played.  Particularly for (ironically) the biggest players on the field, the guys in the pack.  I think soccer's reputation as being the most physically demanding sport is one of those sacred cows that really isn't true.  An argument can be made for the guys at a midfield position, but anyone who's played rugby would shoot that down in a minute.

[David Kelly]

About 6 years ago I was walking my dog past Brookside GC in Pasadena which is in the shadow of the Rose Bowl. I didn't realize that the US soccer team was playing Mexico that day and the game was getting ready to start. The Mexican national anthem played and when it was over the crowd went nuts.  Then the USA national anthem was played and it was almost drowned out in jeers and boos. It was a disgrace and yes I know you can't blame an entire group just because of the actions of 70,000 people.

BTW, the rest of the world better hope we never get serious about soccer. As it is we have the best women's soccer team in the world and at least one of the 16 best men's teams.  Imagine if most of this country actually cared about the sport.

[TEPaul]

David:

You've got to cut those dog walks short--it sounds to me like your dog lead you down to Tiaquana not Pasadena!

[Mike_Cirba]

Soccer (football) seems to me to be one of those sports that's a heckuva lot of fun to play, and perhaps even fun to spectate at, given enough beer and regional/national crowd camaraderie of rooting for one's home team.

Perhaps on some level it's like the USA victory over the USSR in 1980, when many Americans like myself who frankly find the sport dreadfully boring to watch suddenly sat fixated and excited beyond belief.

However, soccer seems to operate at about 30% of the pace of hockey, so other than the joy of singing nationalistic songs with ones copatriots, I just have to admit that I can't understand the thrill.  The fact that so many mob scenes and violence seem to be the result has me wondering if it's not just used as an avenue to express separatist, divisional sentiments that have no other outlet.

[Tiny Tim]

Hardest sport? basketball, football (real, as in with the foot), field hockey,etc..

Professional cycling, full stop. Absolute monsters and underpaid for the difficulty, lifespan, and potential danger this beautiful sport is.  Now, hit me with the doping issue.

Lance Armstrong has his work cut out this year.

[David Wigler]

"The U.S. is in the quarterfinals of the biggest sporting event on the planet, and all the soccer nay-sayers out there can't do anything about it. Bash the sport ... oh wait, the team made it to the final eight of the World Cup. At least 4,000 fans watched the game at Columbus Crew stadium. More at the home of the Kansas City Wizards."  Quote from Rob Stone - ESPN's Soccer geek.  

What a joke!  4,000 fans - OOOh!.  18,000 fans show up to watch Lebron James play high school basketball.

Will Germany please kick our butt and put us out of our misery.

Tiny Tim - I would not disagree with you for one second about cycling.  I also would not argue with Marathon Running or Triathlon's.  I was talking about team sports when I said basketball.  I would venture to guess that Triathletes probably win if we consider all sports.

[SPDB]

Will Germany please kick our butt and put us out of our misery.

I can't believe you would wish the US would lose, irrespective of how you feel about the sport.

On this issue, I wish someone would kick your butt put me (and probably others) out of the misery of listening to your self-interested ramblings.  

[SPDB]

that may have been a little too harsh, i apologize, David.

But rather than wishing the US would lose, why not hope they win?

Let's give the simplest analogy that I know of, and one to which you can probably relate given your professed love of hockey.

This is really not too dissimilar from the 1980 Olympics at Lake Placid. In that hockey tournament, the world gave us no more than a passing chance of even competing. The same is true of our World Cup team. In fact the odds are probably longer.

Leaving aside all of the Cold War drama surrounding the semifinal game, the country rallied around the US hockey team, regardless of their views of the sport. Why did they root for them? Most likely it was because the rest of the hockey world had written us off as potential challengers. By the same logic, then, why shouldn't you, and others, root for the US as they try to win in a game that is, decidedly, the property of the rest of the world?

for shame.

[David Wigler]

SPDB,

Your are not the first person to wish someone would kick my butt and probably won't be the last.  

The analogy to the US team in 1980 does not work.  No one was shoving that team down our throats.  In fact, the game was shown on tape delay.  I remember not watching TV or listening to the radio the entire day so my father and I could enjoy the game.  With five minutes left to go in the game, ABC in Detroit broke for a commercial promo of their upcoming newscast and Bill Bonds said "... and the reaction from fans after the shocking US victory over the Russians."  I wanted to kick Bill Bonds butt.  It is the same reason I hate the WNBA.  It is bad basketball played poorly but is shoved down our throats and put on national TV as though it matters.  Read ESPN's talking heads quote.  My G-D, 4,000 people validate soccer.  In that case, monster truck rallies are bigger than the World Cup.  I want the US to lose, so Soccer can stop being forced down our throats.  If Soccer ever does catch on in the US, then give it the lead on Sportscenter, covers of ESPN The Magazine, etc.  Right now, Bass Fishing outdraws it.  To suddenly care would be disingenuous on my part.