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Thomas MacWood

Architects that are under-discussed
« on: October 20, 2008, 11:27:21 PM »
Along the lines of the question about the courses rarely discussed and analyzed, what architects have flown under the radar?

Of the very elite architects I'd say Stanley Thompson without question is the most under discussed. I put him in the same class with Mackenzie, Colt, Ross and Tillinghast, but he certainly doesn't get the same attention.

William Langford and JD Dunn are a couple of other very good architects I'd like to know more about. CH Alison is another one who deserves more interest. 
« Last Edit: October 20, 2008, 11:41:40 PM by Tom MacWood »

Sean Leary

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Re: Architects that are under-discussed
« Reply #1 on: October 20, 2008, 11:53:15 PM »
Macan

TEPaul

Re: Architects that are under-discussed
« Reply #2 on: October 21, 2008, 01:01:10 AM »
In my opinion, the most underdiscussed and perhaps underappreciated architect I'm aware of in relation to what he could see or visualize for the future of golf architecture may've been George Thomas, despite his few famous architectural successes. The only other one I'm aware of who may've topped him in raw philosophical architectural potential is Max Behr. I also get the feeling that Robert Hunter should be in that ultra-brain trust group too.

The pity with some of those people like that is that so many today say: "What did they really do that left a legacy on the ground?"

I don't think that's exactly the point. To me it's more like---what did they think, and write and what did they see for architecture and the future beyond them?

Jon Spaulding

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Re: Architects that are under-discussed
« Reply #3 on: October 21, 2008, 01:19:59 AM »
Behr, Watson, William P. Bell.
You'd make a fine little helper. What's your name?

Thomas MacWood

Re: Architects that are under-discussed
« Reply #4 on: October 21, 2008, 07:21:02 AM »
The California architects are way under discussed, especially Bell, Watson and Dunn.

Jeff_Brauer

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Re: Architects that are under-discussed
« Reply #5 on: October 21, 2008, 07:35:03 AM »
Must be a regional thing. I think the Midwestern architects are under discussed, mostly because mudane sites and low budgets affected how they brought golf to the masses - besides Maxwell, there were Diddel, Farley and others who populated the mid section of our country with golf courses.  Further south, it was Bredemus and then Plummer.

I also have always been interested in the family tree of Bell and those who trained under him.
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Eric Franzen

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Re: Architects that are under-discussed
« Reply #6 on: October 21, 2008, 08:10:03 AM »
Brian Curley and Todd Eckenrode are two modern guys that I wouldn't mind seeing a bit more discussion about. 

Jeff_Brauer

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Re: Architects that are under-discussed
« Reply #7 on: October 21, 2008, 08:25:46 AM »
Brian Curley plays guitar and sings.  Is that enough discussion? ;)
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Noel Freeman

Re: Architects that are under-discussed
« Reply #8 on: October 21, 2008, 11:22:54 AM »
I've had the pleasure of touring the UK many many times with Russell Talley.. Someone who is the most modest man I've seen.. He would never take credit or discuss things he's doing... You can take the man out of Oklahoma but not the Okie out of the man..

CJ Carder

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Re: Architects that are under-discussed
« Reply #9 on: October 21, 2008, 11:36:17 AM »
For some more recent courses and architects, what about:

Lindsay Ervin (http://www.lbegolfcoursedesign.com)
(Birdwood in Charlottesville, Woodlands in Maryland, Links at Gettysburg)

Tom Jackson (http://www.jacksongolf.com)
(Stonewall in Manassas, VA and multiple courses in the NC / SC area)

Tim Cate (http://www.timcate.com)
(Multiple Myrtle Beach / Sunset Beach area courses)

Doug Wright

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Re: Architects that are under-discussed
« Reply #10 on: October 21, 2008, 11:43:31 AM »
George Cobb has been discussed on here a bit awhile ago but not much and not recently.
Twitter: @Deneuchre

Mark_Rowlinson

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Re: Architects that are under-discussed
« Reply #11 on: October 21, 2008, 11:47:14 AM »
Harry Vardon, Cuthbert Butchart

Tim Copeland

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Re: Architects that are under-discussed
« Reply #12 on: October 21, 2008, 11:48:48 AM »


Tom Jackson (http://www.jacksongolf.com)
(Stonewall in Manassas, VA and multiple courses in the NC / SC area)

Site has not been updated since 98?!?!?!  Wonder where he went??

Had a course near Easley SC closed down..........
I need a nickname so I can tell all that I know.....

Jay Kirkpatrick

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Re: Architects that are under-discussed
« Reply #13 on: October 21, 2008, 11:54:47 AM »
Ellis Maples

Andy Hughes

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Re: Architects that are under-discussed
« Reply #14 on: October 21, 2008, 03:44:41 PM »
Quote
George Cobb has been discussed on here a bit awhile ago but not much and not recently

Doug, you beat me to it.
"Perhaps I'm incorrect..."--P. Mucci 6/7/2007

Bob Jenkins

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Re: Architects that are under-discussed
« Reply #15 on: October 21, 2008, 03:49:27 PM »

Ed Seay. I screwed up and put my comment on the "Architect's that are not appreciated" thread.

Thomas MacWood

Re: Architects that are under-discussed
« Reply #16 on: October 21, 2008, 07:19:46 PM »
Harry Vardon, Cuthbert Butchart

Did Harry Vardon actually design anything? Hawtree gives the impression he was the Gary Player of his time.

Tim Gavrich

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Re: Architects that are under-discussed
« Reply #17 on: October 21, 2008, 07:29:40 PM »
Geoffrey Cornish.
Senior Writer, GolfPass

JMorgan

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Re: Architects that are under-discussed
« Reply #18 on: October 21, 2008, 08:05:36 PM »
A few ODG's who haven't been mentioned yet:

Fernie
Taylor
Archie Simpson
Charles Hunter

JMorgan

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Re: Architects that are under-discussed
« Reply #19 on: October 21, 2008, 08:08:14 PM »
Harry Vardon, Cuthbert Butchart

Did Harry Vardon actually design anything? Hawtree gives the impression he was the Gary Player of his time.

Tom,

A few off the cuff and probably in no way inclusive:

Abersoch
Balmore
Kingussie
Aberstwyth
Llandrindod Wells
Looe
Knighton
Little Aston

Thomas MacWood

Re: Architects that are under-discussed
« Reply #20 on: October 21, 2008, 08:14:13 PM »
Did he actually design those courses or did he just lend his name?

JMorgan

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Re: Architects that are under-discussed
« Reply #21 on: October 21, 2008, 08:31:58 PM »
Tom, I've asked the same question, and from little bits and pieces uncovered here and there, like Kingussie, for instance, I don't think he just lent his name to most of the courses.  And of course if there was a player in the history of golf that should come up with a group of brilliant courses, it should be him.  (Sort of like the expectations for Tiger today.)  In this regard, he falls short IMO, if he did design all of the courses that are attributed to him.

Thomas MacWood

Re: Architects that are under-discussed
« Reply #22 on: October 21, 2008, 09:54:39 PM »
Sandy Lodge is probably Vardon's highest profile design, but Frances Markes was actually the man behind that project, and it was very unusual project and course. I also believe Vardon's active involvement at Woodhall Spa was somewhat spotty.

Evidently Vardon had a relationship with Carters headed by Reginald Beale, this what Hawtree wrote, "Beale wrote Lawns for Sports (1924). Although, as the title suggests, its range is much wider, golf figures in the first three chapters...His experience of golf course architects has clearly made him cautious but he seems to have been delighted to take over where they left off which, in the case of Vardon, was quite early in the piece if not actually on Day 1." Its my understanding Brocton Hall was actually designed by Beale.

On the other hand Vardon wrote a hell of a lot about the golf architecture, more than many of his contemporaries, and interestingly he was one of the most active critics/analysts of American golf architecture at a very important time.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2008, 10:06:58 PM by Tom MacWood »

RJ_Daley

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Re: Architects that are under-discussed
« Reply #23 on: October 22, 2008, 01:30:16 AM »
Bill Amick
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

Mark_Rowlinson

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Re: Architects that are under-discussed
« Reply #24 on: October 22, 2008, 10:41:24 AM »
Markes was very much involved in the establishment and subsequent running of Sandy Lodge, but he brought Vardon over to the embryonic club for his golfing knowledge and expertise. As far as I have been able to establish, it's Vardon's layout (although somewhat changed in detail over time) but that Markes had a big say in such things as the nature of the bunkers. I'm told that Markes spent ages with Vardon perfecting the sleepered bunkers. He wanted the sleepers angled so that a golfer playing a shot close to the sleepers could not be decapitated if the ball bounced back of the sleeper, but that it was almost certain that the ball would not escape the bunker, particularly forwards.

As I understand it, South Herts was gradually redesigned  by Vardon during his years there although he died before all his changes were implemented.