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Tom Naccarato

From The Now It Can Be Told Department........
« on: October 17, 2008, 11:37:31 AM »
Some years ago, late one night, I was perusing the LA Times archives and came across a story that more or less blew me away. It told of the story of how W.H. Woodruff, the founder of a development called Dana Point, had been talking with one A. MacKenzie about building a golf course on his land. Further research showed that earlier, both Billy Bell and Max Behr had walked the property also.

While not only Tom Doak, but many others have doubted MacKenzie's path into Los Angeles, as brief as it was as nothing more then a trip to TJ for some booze and broads, and despite the naysayers that Redlands CC wasn't one of his, I can only say bullocks! But further, more articles stating that MacKenzie intended to make SoCal his home were actually found. Given the Good Doctors pension for exaggeration in the name of securing a job, any job--I don't doubt for a second he had the Monterey Bay as his final destination to find a suitable place called home. But if any of yo have ever been to the Land of Cougar's/the Big Orange/Orange County, more specifically Dana Point and Laguna, you have to look past the ill planning of highways and hotels and look at the real meat and potatoes, the land itself.

For the most part, and as much as I loath what has become of my home county, it was at one time a very beautiful, serene place. Even better, the weather is usually always outstanding.

There is little doubt in my mind the great effort and time line that Sean Tully, Bob Beck, Neil Crafter and many others have started will be one of the great pieces of Golf Course history which can be further added upon, hi-lighting the important moments in Golf Course history. I feel fortunate that I've been allowed to contribute some of my findings too, and here is one of them, along with the story of how it was found.

Enjoy!

So, I'm at Barnes and Noble one night, I'm perusing the aisles and acres of books and suddenly I come across a Dana Point history book, small in form but these types of books for me have never failed to entertain.

Suddenly, I call one Mr. David Stamm and I'm chatting with him while sipping on a very expensive cup of black coffee at the B&N Coffee Bar, while strumming through the pile of books I've pulled from the shelves, just killing time. It's what I did after I left this website.

HOLY SHIT! DAVID, YOUR NOT GOING TO BELIEVE THIS!!!!!

And there it was, a picture of W.H. Woodruff and his nameless, but titled, engineers, posing for a camera shot with plans in hand and the most definitive proof behind them.  And yes, that is a very dapper Robert Hunter and some obscure looking doctor from Headingly, Leeds holding the opposite side of the plan.

No, this isn't some elaborate Photoshop hoax I'm trying to pull on some of you, as I have in the past but it is for the most part proof that Dana Point for all over-zealous development, at one time had bigger and better things in mind.



Tom Huckaby

Re: From The Now It Can Be Told Department........
« Reply #1 on: October 17, 2008, 11:42:34 AM »
So there was more than dream to Geoff's book?

That is really cool.

And if it is a photoshop hoax, then fish on for me. 

 ;D

Mike Nuzzo

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: From The Now It Can Be Told Department........
« Reply #2 on: October 17, 2008, 11:46:43 AM »
We love you tommy!
Thinking of Bob, Rihc, Bill, George, Neil, Dr. Childs, & Tiger.

Kirk Gill

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: From The Now It Can Be Told Department........
« Reply #3 on: October 17, 2008, 11:52:02 AM »
Haven't you seen "Wag The Dog?"

That water tank was actually built on a vacant lot in New Jersey.
"After all, we're not communists."
                             -Don Barzini

Tom Naccarato

Re: From The Now It Can Be Told Department........
« Reply #4 on: October 17, 2008, 11:55:26 AM »
Tom,
You bring up a very interesting point that I never really ever thought about. How unbelievable that Mac did in fact at the very least drive by the site aptly named The Pendleton Links from Geoff's book, The Good Doctor Returns...

No hook to pull out here though, it is fact and the photo can be seen in Doris Walker's excellent Images of America book on Dana Point which can be found here:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0738547328/ref=sib_dp_pt#reader-link

Thanks Mike, and yes, Kirk, this is just like something from Wag The Dog!

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: From The Now It Can Be Told Department........
« Reply #5 on: October 17, 2008, 11:55:56 AM »
Wouldn't you just love to have those drawing plans they are holding, framed!!!  ;D

No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

Tom Naccarato

Re: From The Now It Can Be Told Department........
« Reply #6 on: October 17, 2008, 12:09:32 PM »
Well Dick, I've actually been looking for them!

Tom Huckaby

Re: From The Now It Can Be Told Department........
« Reply #7 on: October 17, 2008, 12:26:14 PM »
Tom,
You bring up a very interesting point that I never really ever thought about. How unbelievable that Mac did in fact at the very least drive by the site aptly named The Pendleton Links from Geoff's book, The Good Doctor Returns...

No hook to pull out here though, it is fact and the photo can be seen in Doris Walker's excellent Images of America book on Dana Point which can be found here:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0738547328/ref=sib_dp_pt#reader-link

Thanks Mike, and yes, Kirk, this is just like something from Wag The Dog!

Now the next question is... Geoff didn't know about this, right?

Or did he, somehow, some way????

One way or the other it is very cool and very intriguing.

TH

Thomas MacWood

Re: From The Now It Can Be Told Department........
« Reply #8 on: October 17, 2008, 12:27:12 PM »

Jeff_Brauer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: From The Now It Can Be Told Department........
« Reply #9 on: October 17, 2008, 12:28:07 PM »
Tommy, er Tom,

Nice find! I have several of those Arcadia books. What a concept, local history for under $20.  I bought the one for my childhood hometown and it has some info and an aerial photo of my old subdivision under construction before the family house was built. It was worth the $20 just to have that photo and tidbit of knowledge about where I lived.

I can't help but think of the Merion threads when I see this.  We never know when history will be complete, or where new info might be found.  And it is still a giant jigsaw puzzle to put together.

Finding those plans would be great.  Of course, for all we know they are long destroyed.  for that matter, maybe its a blank sheet and the developer just knew a good publicity photo op when he saw it!
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Tom Naccarato

Re: From The Now It Can Be Told Department........
« Reply #10 on: October 17, 2008, 12:34:08 PM »
Tom MacWood, yes it does look like a famliar scene, only it was slightly predating Chinatown! (in real life!)

Tom Huckaby,
As soon as I could, I got off of the phone with David Stamm, called Geoff and shot an image with my phone camera and sent it to Geoff. We were both blown away. Doris Walker, the author of the book didn't even know the significance of the photo.

Jeff Brauer,
Sean Tully had a look inside Woodruff's papers which are housed at UCI. Unfortunately, he didn't turn anything up in those. But there does seem to be a lot of other stuff spread about the place concerning Dana Point. It just takes time and parking and then a lot of patience in digging!

Jeff_Brauer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: From The Now It Can Be Told Department........
« Reply #11 on: October 17, 2008, 12:40:46 PM »
Tom,

Good luck and have fun!  That's what historical research is all about.  That and the occaisional "ah hah!" moment.   What a rush!
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Tom Huckaby

Re: From The Now It Can Be Told Department........
« Reply #12 on: October 17, 2008, 12:45:13 PM »
Tom Huckaby,
As soon as I could, I got off of the phone with David Stamm, called Geoff and shot an image with my phone camera and sent it to Geoff. We were both blown away. Doris Walker, the author of the book didn't even know the significance of the photo.

Excellent!

Methinks we need to use Geoff as a prescient source... I shall contact him for totes for this weekend's football games.  The man has some serious mojo going on.

 ;)

Tim Leahy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: From The Now It Can Be Told Department........
« Reply #13 on: October 17, 2008, 12:51:25 PM »
Since Tiger Woods is from that area and now is a golf architect I wonder if he has any interest in this history. He might be a heck of a resource to get into some previously unopened doors. 8)
I love golf, the fightin irish, and beautiful women depending on the season and availability.

Tom Naccarato

Re: From The Now It Can Be Told Department........
« Reply #14 on: October 17, 2008, 12:56:18 PM »
Tim,
Somehow I would think that Tiger would be more interesting in catching a blue fin tuna with his bare hands, during one of his diving excursions on his yacht then the existence of a course that may or may not have ever been built some 35+ miles from where he was reared.

(no offense to Tiger Woods)

Honestly, we are a few--a very few that love this stuff.

Dan Herrmann

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: From The Now It Can Be Told Department........
« Reply #15 on: October 17, 2008, 01:43:13 PM »
How dare you guys talk about golf architecture outside of NYC and Philly!  :) :)

That's one heck of a picture - great info!!

ANTHONYPIOPPI

Re: From The Now It Can Be Told Department........
« Reply #16 on: October 17, 2008, 02:05:18 PM »
"You're a very nosy fellow, kitty cat. Huh? You know what happens to nosy fellows? Huh? No? Wanna guess? Huh? No? Okay. They lose their noses."

 

Tom Naccarato

Re: From The Now It Can Be Told Department........
« Reply #17 on: October 17, 2008, 02:10:06 PM »
Thanks Dan!

Jon Spaulding

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: From The Now It Can Be Told Department........
« Reply #18 on: October 17, 2008, 03:10:08 PM »
The scariest thing is that I purchased the book at Costco a couple weeks before the discovery and never bothered to take a look. The emporer always reigns supreme.

I believe the caption reads something like "Woodruff and his water planning guys"......

I went to high school on the site where the course was to be built.....as did Nicole Brown Simpson.  :-\

It would have been one hell of a course, playing thru canyons, on a mesa with rolling topography, overlooking the Pacific from a number of locations, and surrounded by Cougars.

The Cougars are still there, but all we have today is RTJ2's Monarch Beach, which makes one want to drive off a cliff.
You'd make a fine little helper. What's your name?

Mike Golden

Re: From The Now It Can Be Told Department........
« Reply #19 on: October 17, 2008, 03:27:44 PM »
that photo is so phony the next thing you'll want us to believe is that El Cholo make good margaritas and that the late great Ted Robinson wasn't the best architect ever in California.  The nerve of some newbies, you need to edumacate yourself before posting on this site.

Tom Naccarato

Re: From The Now It Can Be Told Department........
« Reply #20 on: October 17, 2008, 03:50:21 PM »
Mike,
No! I would never insinuate any of that! ;)

(Especially the Ted Robinson part.) (God rest his soul, and I mean that!)


George Pazin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: From The Now It Can Be Told Department........
« Reply #21 on: October 17, 2008, 03:58:20 PM »
that photo is so phony the next thing you'll want us to believe is that El Cholo make good margaritas and that the late great Ted Robinson wasn't the best architect ever in California.  The nerve of some newbies, you need to edumacate yourself before posting on this site.

 :)

Welcome back, young Tom, you have been missed.
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

Mike Golden

Re: From The Now It Can Be Told Department........
« Reply #22 on: October 17, 2008, 04:09:00 PM »
Mike,
No! I would never insinuate any of that! ;)

(Especially the Ted Robinson part.) (God rest his soul, and I mean that!)



once again, it's Tommy being Tommy....



 ;D ::) ;)

Tim Leahy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: From The Now It Can Be Told Department........
« Reply #23 on: October 17, 2008, 05:18:29 PM »
"You're a very nosy fellow, kitty cat. Huh? You know what happens to nosy fellows? Huh? No? Wanna guess? Huh? No? Okay. They lose their noses."

Forget it Tommy, it's Dana Pt. 8)
I love golf, the fightin irish, and beautiful women depending on the season and availability.

David Stamm

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: From The Now It Can Be Told Department........
« Reply #24 on: October 17, 2008, 05:39:58 PM »
That was a cool moment when Tom saw this. As a huge AM fan, it was very neat to know that he did make it down this far. Incidentally, there is evidence that he came even further. San Diego's historical society states that AM bid on the Balboa Park project before losing out to Bell.
"The object of golf architecture is to give an intelligent purpose to the striking of a golf ball."- Max Behr