Back-to-Back Par 5s

[Abe Summers]

Okay, I admit I'm playing courses nobody on this board has ever played before (today was Royalton Qingchengshan Golf Club near Chengdu, China), but the important thing is, the course had back to back par 5s.  Holes 11 and 12 were par 5s, from the blue tees 523 and 599 yards each.  I made two pars. 

I wonder, are there other courses with this feature?  Are we GCAers pro or anti back to back par 5s?

[Chip Gaskins]

Cypress Point 5 & 6

Olympic Club 16 & 17

Beechtree 7 & 8

Mid Pines 5 & 6

Royal Portrush 17 & 18

With the bonus question, back to back Par 3s: Cabo Del Sol 6 & 7

[wsmorrison]

Cascades (Hot Springs, VA) had the 16th lengthened so it is now a par 5 preceding the par 5 17th.  I think it was better as a long par 4.

Rolling Green (Springfield, PA) finishes with 2 par 5s.  The 17th is a short hole that was lengthened in a way that takes away the opportunity to reach it in 2 due to the dogleg nature of the hole.  It should be returned.  The 18th was lengthened and it too resulted in a strategic disconnect as a result of the dogleg.  It is better off as a par 4 from the former middle tee for the longer players.  Let the members tee be from the old back tee and the shorter hitters can play it as a mundane par 5.  Now the longer hitters/low handicappers play a driver down the hill but almost no one can reach the corner and have a shot at the green.  Most players hit driver, 7-iron, 7-iron to get around the corner and approach the large green.  It is far better as a par 4.  The finish leaves a bit of a let down feeling after an exhilarating round of solid to exceptional holes.

[Matthew Rose]

Don't forget Baltusrol

[Dan Kelly]

Town and Country Club (St. Paul; Minnesota's oldest golf course) has consecutive par-3s on the front side (Nos. 2 & 3) -- and closes with three consecutive par-5s (15, 16, 17) and a par-3.

I wouldn't call any of it "ideal" -- but it's quirky and memorable.

Which is more than you can say about lots of courses.

[David_Tepper]

Since the nines were reversed about 10 tears agoat the Presidio GC (San Francisco), the current #9 (used to be #18) and #10 (used to be #1) are back-to-back par-5's.

[Greg Krueger]

My home course has back to back par 5's #16 & #17. They are completely different holes, one being a 3 shotter most of the time and the other a 4.5 par with risk reward. I also like the time in the round, at the end with a great chance to finish strong.

[Ronald Montesano]

Cherry Hill in ONT has back to back fives in number 6 (midlength) and 7 (short).  I imagine that an architect could run btb 5s if she/he had fewer options with that long portion of the land tract.

[Tim Taylor]

My former club, Loudoun GCC in Purcellville, VA, had back to back par 5s at 11 and 12. In fact, it had a stretch where three of four holes were par 5s - 11, 12, and 14. Even more interesting, the back nine started and ended on par 3s!

3, 5, 5, 4, 5, 4, 4, 4, 3 - How's that for a unique routing?

Tim

[Adam Clayman]

Abe, Formulaic thinking is too constricting for understanding and appreciating quality designs. If that's what you're into?
Anything goes as far as I'm concerned. The trick, from a layman's view, is to stay fresh and not repetitive.
There are tons of examples (Listed above) of all sorts of non-standard routings and configurations. I say That's a good thing. What about you?

One of the best examples of today's non formulaic envelope pushing designs is Greywalls in Marquette Mi. The standard Mr. DeVries broke there is the obsessive adherence to crescendo-ing at the end of the round. Instead, he hits you right away on the front nine with some serious rock and roll, but concludes with a minuet by Bach. The affect is quite appropriate and mimics many of the counter intuitive aspects inherent in the features/holes constructed.

[Phil McDade]

The back-to-back par 5s at Highland Links (Cape Breton) are detailed here as part of a GCA profile:

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/capebreton000114.html

[Shane Wright]

Cypress Point 5 & 6

Olympic Club 16 & 17

Beechtree 7 & 8

Mid Pines 5 & 6

Royal Portrush 17 & 18

With the bonus question, back to back Par 3s: Cabo Del Sol 6 & 7

Don't forget Pacific Dunes #10 and #11

[Jim Nugent]

For members' play, the 1st at Baltusrol is a par 5, I believe.  For 36 hole matches, that means golfers play 3 par 5's in a row there. 

[Tom Birkert]

Wentworth (not my favourite course by any means) finishes with two par 5s.

[Greg Holland]

North Berwick West Links -- the 3 shotters are holes 8, 9 and 11 (and 10 is a par 3).

[Greg Stebbins]

The 7th and 8th holes at Essex County in NJ are both par 5's. 

[Mark Pearce]

The 3rd and 4th at The Northumberland are par 5s.  The second is a longish par 4 and I reckon I get more 4s at the 3rd than I do there.

[Sean_A]

Pennard has the most varied and interesting back to back par 5 in #s 16 & 17 that I am aware of. 

Woking has its pair near the clubhouse, #s 14 & 15.  Though I would prefer these are broken up and #15 be made #1 with #14 as the home hole.

Worplesdon as back to backers at #s 11 & 12.  The 11th gets the fame, but I prefer the 12th.

Ciao

[Will MacEwen]

My club has 5s at #9 and 10, but it doesn't feel like back to backs as there is about a three minute walk between tehm, and the nines are very much divided.  It lacks a continuous feel.

[mike_malone]

 What are the characteristics of these back to back holes. For example, is one short and the other long or one turning right and the other left?

[Doug Wright]

Two ends of the Denver golfing spectrum:

Cherry Hills 17 and 18 (for members)
City Park GC 10-11

In Minneapolis:

Minikahda 13-14
Interlachen 11 (for members) and 12

[Sean_A]

What are the characteristics of these back to back holes. For example, is one short and the other long or one turning right and the other left?

Mayday

The 16th is a wide open tee shot which eventually swings right.  Depending on the wind, many players can have a go at the green in 2.  For the layup (which is often a 3 wood!), it is best to keep left so you can work the green a bit better for the approach.  If you are right it can be a devil to keep the ball on the green.

The 17th is the exact opposite.  The tee shot is blind to what is effectively a narrow landing zone becaus eof the left to right slope of the hill.  Many can have a go at the green in 2 even after a layup.  However, this shot is blind, uphill, over some rough country and at angle which means it is easy to lose the ball right.  If you layup, the shot to this practically 90 degree dogleg left is sort of a mini version of the "go for it shot".  Of course, one can always layup to the part of the fairway which can be seen before the hole turns.  If its sounds complicated its because it is complicated!

So far as going for these holes in 2, for the vast majority of players, only one of these is par 5s can be reachable because they run in different directions to the wind.  If there is a pair of more varied and challenging back to back par 5s out there, I want to hear about it!

Of course, we forgot about wee Painswick and its back to back 8th & 9th.  These are a bit funky as well.  They both have some excellent elements about them and some poor elements, but that is a description which can sum up Painswick!

Ciao

[Andrew Mitchell]

Ballybunion 4th & 5th - two rather nondescript holes from my recollection.

Wentworth West course 17th & 18th - the famous finish to the Burma Road.

[Dan Boerger]

Also don't forget #14 and #15 at Seminole.

[Sean Leary]

Cypress Point 5 & 6

Olympic Club 16 & 17

Beechtree 7 & 8

Mid Pines 5 & 6

Royal Portrush 17 & 18

With the bonus question, back to back Par 3s: Cabo Del Sol 6 & 7

18 at Portrush is a par 4.

At Aldarra, we have back to back par 5's (11 and 12) that have always been considered the weakest part of the routing. I have changed my tune on that a bit as it is part of a breather stretch of holes on a VERY difficult course, that is well placed...