Mackenzie's 7th green at Shipley GC

[Neil_Crafter]

I came across this photo of Mackenzie's 7th green at Shipley GC in West Yorkshire on the Frith photo website after a keyword search for golf. Around 130 old photos of British courses on there, well worth a look.
www.francisfrith.com

Mackenzie designed a new course for Shipley that opened in 1921, so this photo from 1923 is only a couple of years after that. I thought the photo quite remarkable due to the location of the green, right hard up against a stream, and the sheer size of the green, coupled with its curving shape. Quite one of the more stunning greens that I have seen from this period. It looks to be at least 60 yards or more in length.

Checking out the current green on Google Earth, it appears to have shrunk over the years to a fraction of its original site - on the club's website they say the hole is quite difficult due to the small green - how quickly they forget!



A couple of other shots of Shipley from the Frith website:





And a couple of Mackenzie's course at Grange-over-Sands, looking towards the Grand Hotel, taken in 1927. Quite flat ground but Mackenzie's mounds and built up greens can be clearly seen poking up out of the plain.

[Andrew Mitchell]

Neil

That's an excellent find.  I have a number of friends who are members at Shipley and I play there on a regular basis.  I would never have recognised that as Shipley had you put the picture up with the caption "which course is this?"

The only photograph I could find on the web of the current 7th green is this one, taken from the club's website


This is taken from in front of the green whereas Frith's is from the hillside behind the green.  The current green is considerably smaller, with what we in Yorkshire refer to as a "reverse MacKenzie step" with the top tier of the green being higher than the lower tier.  There is also a fronting bunker, intended to catch any attempt to land short of the green and bump the ball onto the green, which does not appear to be part of MacKenzie's orginal design.  There are also considerably more trees on the course, you cannot now see the 6th green (shown in the top of Frith's photograph) from the 7th green.

I would guess that where the couple are standing in Frith's photograph is near where the current photograph is taken from.

It is an intimidating par 3 but I have always thought that it is unfair to class the beck which runs down the side of the hole and then behind the green as out of bounds rather than as a water hazard.

The first of the other two Shipley photographs is taken from the hillside above the course, looking over the course to the clubsite.  The second photograph is (I think) of the 14th green although again the addition of trees makes it difficult to recognise.

I was in Grange over Sands recently and drove past the golf course.  I did not know it was attributed to MacKenzie.  As you state it is laid out on very flat land, close to the Morecambe Bay estuary.

[Neil_Crafter]

Andrew
Excellent information thanks. I didn't want to play any games by putting it up as "guess what course this is", but I suspect those that know Shipley like yourself, would have found it hard. The amount of putting green surface lost is quite staggering and today the hole would not play much like it did when Mackenzie built it. Any chance the club would try and restore this green do you think?
Yes it does seem somewhat unfair that the 'beck' as you call it is OB rather than a water hazard.

Grange=over-Sands is well recognised as a Mackenzie course and he featured a couple of photographs of the course in his 1920 book 'Golf Architecture' - might be worth a round and a report?

cheers Neil

[Bill_McBride]

Neil, is that the clubhouse at Grange-over-Sands, or a nearby hotel? 

[Neil_Crafter]

Bill
No, that's the Grand Hotel, not the clubhouse (I actually said this in the caption to the pictures). Would be quite a clubhouse - one room per member!
Neil

[Andrew Mitchell]

Neil

I would agree the amount of green surface lost is amazing, I would have thought that the original 7th green as shown in your picture extended to where the fairway commences in the modern photo.  I would estimate that at 20 to 25 yards in length.  The current 14th green is also much reduced.  Where the player on the left is putting from is now the 15th tee!

I would imagine that due to maintenance costs the greens will never be extended back to their original size.

I've never played Grange Over Sands but will think to do so when next in the area.  From a quick google search the Grand is still a hotel but its website suggests that it is not quite as grand as it once would have been.

Based on my recent visit Grange is a typical faded Victorian resort, now popular with retired couples.

[Neil_Crafter]

Andrew
Would be quite a talking point if the club restored just that one green to its original size - might double their overall greens maintenance budget though given its area!

Yes, I checked out the Grand Hotel and some of the comments from guests give it an air of Fawlty Towers. Would love to hear if you get a chance to play the course.
Neil

[Andrew Mitchell]

Neil
I emailed the photos to a pal of mine who is the Greens Chairman at Shipley, asking if he would consider restoring the greens to their original size.  I'll let you know his response, assuming its printable!!

[Neil_Crafter]

Andrew
the response should be interesting!
It would be great if you could ask him what old photos the club may have of the course from this period.
Thanks
Neil

[Mark_Rowlinson]

If you play Grange over Sands try also to play the 9-hole Grange Fell. It's not great architecture but its situation is wonderful and the views stunning.