[JSPayne]

In conjunction with Jeff's topic on the future of GCA.....some quick thoughts on where maintenance trends will go in the VERY near future (especially for lower end courses and if we don't get any rain in California this winter!):

- "Native" roughs....no more lush buffers between the real gnarly stuff and the closely mown fairways

- More rough, scraggly bunkers.....for some courses, this has already happened and hopefully it works, but for courses that were designed to have a more manicured look (like mine), changing over to a lower maintenance style of bunker could seriously change some aesthetics and playability

- Overseeding, intraseeding, or reseeding with more drought and disease tolerant grass species.....I forsee alot more fescues or genetically modified grasses coming into the market. I don't think they'll be cheap to buy or grow-in initially, but I think smart business models with look at their long term savings on water, fertilizer and chemicals and make the investment

- More triplex mowing.....except for secure private courses, it's very tough on a tight budget to walk-mow (approaches, tees, greens etc). You do tend to get a nicer, tighter cut, but triplex quality has greatly improved and with the right cultural practices you can still achieve a very impressive product with less man hours spent mowing by hand

- No overseeding in transition zones....we're already moving in the right direction, but the arguement has been made time and again that there is virtually no benefit to overseeding in the fall, with the exception of course of those courses that don't yet have a strong stand of warm-season grasses or that would sustain so much injury from high play over the winter that they need to seed just to have something besides dirt to hit off of

- Low maintenance landscaping......more use of native and low maintenance plants is a must. Many current landscapes do nothing but appeal to a certain aesthetic and cost a small fortune to maintain either buy hiring an outside contractor or taking away valuable man hours from the course. Low maintenance, native plants can look just as great when thought out properly by an insightful designer and though it may involve changing a certain "look," there's no getting around the labor savings that are possible


Any other ideas anyone has? I'm a super that likes to be proactive and many of these things are already going into implementation at my course, forcasting that our economy and the state of golf in the environment is not going to get better any time soon. I'd much prefer to phase into these practices slowly over time than wait for the moment that someone mandates me to do them or the falling economy causes me to lay off so many of my crew that we have no other choice.

I'm happy to see that many of the new courses being discussed on this site have been designed with these ideas in mind of changing maintenance in the future.

[Jeff_Brauer]

Go back to every other day bunker raking instead of doing it every day?

Less cart path edging?

Make golfers fix ball marks and divots rather than just say they do that, even if they don't?

[JSPayne]

Jeff,

We only "full rake" three times a week.

We only edge our cart path curbs, never the whole thing.

And good luck with the divot issue....it's about the only complaint I get about my greens, even though I fix half a dozen per green per day and we've got a small army of marshalls that are supposed to be doing the same.

Good ideas......but we need to take it to the next level! Don't go soft.....really dig into those maintenance cutbacks!

[JohnV]

One thing my club in Pittsburgh did a few years ago was turn the first 25-50 yards of fairway on each hole turn to rough.  The carry was still not bad for the weaker player, but cheaper to maintain as rough rather than fairway.  They didn't grow it too long (2" or so).

Much better than narrowing fairways.

[Ken Moum]

Regardless of what else happens, we need more places like Cordova Golf Course...

http://www.sacbee.com/100/story/1296996.html

$13 weekday green fees in California? Priceless.

In my universe, superintendents like Gary Williams get a standing O.

Ken

[Greg Chambers]

Raising height of cut on greens.  We raised ours this year, went to mowing every other day and rolling on the others, and our greens were great.  Reduced water usage, very little hand watering was necessary (I usually did it myself), decreased fertilizer inputs, decreased chemical applications. 

I'm with Jeff on the bunker maintenance...it's gotten over the top.  We rake twice a week. 

We adjusted our irrigation in our rough areas to the point where we barely had to mow rough once a week, if that. 

We also used far less fertilizer this year, we never got to lush unless it was raining.  It took some edumucation for the members, but they eventually came around (at least most of them).

[John Kavanaugh]

Instead of teaching over educated supers spanish teach hard working cheap labor english.

[Ian Larson]

is that jab at superintendents or "cheap labor" john?

[Jeff_Brauer]

I was reading my North Texas Superintendents montly newletter today and they had an article about how important soil testing and evaluation is.  Some supers are cutting back there, but you can save a lot of fertilizers and water by making sure the chemistry and structure (mostly compaction and ion exchange ratios) are good.  Otherwise, water runs through or off, whereas good soil structure helps turf take up the inputs used.  A good low cost way to reduce costs of three things that are getting awfully expensive - water, fertilizers, and chemicals.

[Ian Larson]

AMEN TO THAT JEFF!!!!

Excellent point.

[John Kavanaugh]

is that jab at superintendents or "cheap labor" john?

It is not a jab at anyone.  It is a practical solution to a budget problem.  In an almost Planet of the Apes scenario I have a feeling that most ground crews contain at least one worker who is perfectly capable of running the show if given communication tools and a chance.  Golf course supers have spent far too many years taking credit off the sweat and knowledge of a suppressed work force that is ready to rise up and take control.  This budget crunch may be the catalyst of which Dr. Zaius refused to speak.

[Ian Larson]

is that jab at superintendents or "cheap labor" john?

It is not a jab at anyone.  It is a practical solution to a budget problem.  In an almost Planet of the Apes scenario I have a feeling that most ground crews contain at least one worker who is perfectly capable of running the show if given communication tools and a chance.  Golf course supers have spent far too many years taking credit off the sweat and knowledge of a suppressed work force that is ready to rise up and take control.  This budget crunch may be the catalyst of which Dr. Zaius refused to speak.

That is one of the most ridiculous things Ive heard. Youre obviously not in the business and a member at a club. Thats the kind of misinformed bullshit you hear from cranky members.

[Mike_Young]

is that jab at superintendents or "cheap labor" john?

It is not a jab at anyone.  It is a practical solution to a budget problem.  In an almost Planet of the Apes scenario I have a feeling that most ground crews contain at least one worker who is perfectly capable of running the show if given communication tools and a chance.  Golf course supers have spent far too many years taking credit off the sweat and knowledge of a suppressed work force that is ready to rise up and take control.  This budget crunch may be the catalyst of which Dr. Zaius refused to speak.

That is one of the most ridiculous things Ive heard. Youre obviously not in the business and a member at a club. Thats the kind of misinformed bullshit you hear from cranky members.

Ian,
I am assuming you are in the supt business.  Don't disregard all that JK is saying.  A frw years back n a little downturn the same type of thing swept thru FL supts.  There are so many supt staff overstaffed today that it is ridiculous.  I can name plenty of courses with 3 and 4 asst supts or 36 hole projects with a supt for each 18 under the director.  IT WILL HAPPEN...as he says and some of the lower budget courses it will happen just as he described....I have seen it in Atlanta in the last year.....and the guy is very good....

[Ian Larson]

Mike,
 
Im not disregarding the point I thought he was trying to make and am aware of the points you presented in a much less insulting way than he did.

Yeah some operations are overstaffed I completely agree with that. But thats not what he was inferring. And Im not going to even begin to break down what he was inferring. He could've taken the higher road on that comment and presented it more eloquently and mature


"Golf course supers have spent far too many years taking credit off the sweat and knowledge of a suppressed work force that is ready to rise up and take control."

....are you serious? Im sure the same could be said for his profession unless he's already retired and playing the Nancy Lopez Course at The Villages.

[Ian Larson]

And this is a good thread so lets please not dwell on this and continue with what matters.

[John Kavanaugh]

Ian,

As a union contractor I am fully aware of what lies waiting for the first sign of weakness.  I can assure you that a train and starve strategy is a disaster in the modern workplace.  How much more does a modern college educated super make than a hispanic worker with the same or more experience. 4x, 5x?  How many hispanic greens keepers are members of the GCSAA?  I don't recall seeing any minorities at the Orlando convention I attended a few years back.  If I were you I would be as scared as I.

I just saw your latest post and am not screwing with you when saying that this cheap labor force that has been used for the last few years by the golf industry is a force to be reckoned with.  The same thing happened in the construction industry at the turn of the last century.  Immigrants who at one time seemed like cheap ignorant labor became the eventual owners of the companies because they were underestimated or undervalued by the original ownership.  It is probably too late now anyway but every golf course owner should soon see that the guys doing all the work can get along just fine without someone telling them when to go home.  Dark ain't hard to figure out as farmers have been working at its mercy for generations.

[Ian Larson]

JK,

Im offended by this and any minority superintendent out there should be as well. And by the way John, they are out there. This isnt the right forum for your ignorance.

[Mike_Young]

....are you serious? Im sure the same could be said for his profession unless he's already retired and playing the Nancy Lopez Course at The Villages.

WOW....I just can't imagine JK at the Villages in those shorts with the high black socks......

[JSPayne]

Wow John.....

You are certainly entitled to your opnion and perspective on things, but let me pass a little factual info your way from someone ACTUALLY IN THE FIELD.

1) A course I know, in a "brilliant" move by upper managment, decided to let go of their "over-salaried" super and hire a mechanic to take his place. The mechanic had been working in the field for years, had plenty of hands-on experience and was an excellent worker under the previous superintendent. Why not? Well.....needless to say he was fired within two years, only after driving the condition of the course into the ground, causing thousands of dollars worth of neglected, "deferred" maintenance issues, not to mention TENS of thousands in lost revenue do to the bad press and PR the course got for sliding so far down hill. This was over 5 years ago and they're still feeling it financially.

2) My current assistant is a VERY adept, intelligent Mexican young man who has alot of potential to be a superintendent someday.........should he want it. But he doesn't. Can you even think of why? One......upper management might want to know a LITTLE more about his legality before they put him in charge of an over-half-a-million budget. Do you think "cheap labor" is cheap just because they're Mexican? My assistant informs me that there's almost no way a Mexican "with papers" would work on a golf course, because they could make twice as much in a number of other industries. Right now, my assistant gets paid well, to be second in command, to do as he pleases more or less, to go home after 8 hours and not feel any responsibility with his job on the line should the slightest thing go wrong. If a disease ravages the greens to the point of no return, I go......not him. He likes that security. He's got a plush job by many people's standards and he likes it here, and I like him there with me as well. I couldn't do it without him. Plus.....why become a superintendent when he can make twice as much running a landscaping company? Which is precisely what he's working toward......between his pay at the course and his side jobs, he makes more than me. Almost makes me want to think about landscaping..........

In conclusion, your "idea" has no real basis in this discussion as a cost savings plan. Feel free to try it out......but please put only your own club at risk, not mine.

[John Gosselin]

Ian, don't get worked up about what a blacktop contractor and a jealous gca think about our profession. These type of people will be on your green committee someday.

[Mike_Young]

Ian, don't get worked up about what a blacktop contractor and a jealous gca think about our profession. These type of people will be on your green committee someday.

John,
I am jealous......I really enjoy your golf course.....  

Ian,
Probably more dangerous than unskilled labor affecting job status would be getting involved in National GCSAA politics....I know a few guys that get so bogged down with the GCSAA politics and then the grenn chair sees the next in command doing the work and the head guy has a problem....

[Ian Larson]

John,

Congrats on the ATT      aaaaannnnndddddd        LETS GO PHILLIES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[John Kavanaugh]

Ian, don't get worked up about what a blacktop contractor and a jealous gca think about our profession. These type of people will be on your green committee someday.

Green Committee?!?!?, I won't even be a member if I can not curtail the loss of margins to non-union hispanic based paving crews.  It is not difficult for me to see a time line where these great, hard working, God fearing, family first people will take the logical step from the oppressed to ownership.  Why is it so difficult to believe that it is also on track in the golf maintenance industry?

A couple of questions:  How long have hispanics been the primary backbone of the gcm workforce?  How long does it take for an intelligent motivated individual from an agronomic background to learn how to take care of a golf course and motivate crews?  Is there precedent for immigrants in the past history of golf taking over maintenance through hard work instead of education?  What tools are the guys we all see working on our courses missing that our current supers possess and can theses skills be taught inexpensively during the off season?  Last question...Are you awake yet?

[TEPaul]

Here's an idea for the future of golf course maintenance.

Find a good super, make him a member of the club, consider making him the only member of the green committee or even the president of the club, give him what he considers to be a fairly minimal operating and capital budget, then leave him alone and watch what he can do.

I know that's sort of tongue in check but someone ought to try it to see what happens. I know this will make the businessmen who run clubs nervous but going in they might ask the super to turn his wife and children over as collateral if he doesn't produce. Well his wife and children may not be motivation enough. Ask him if he's willing to use his personal car, motorcycle or truck as collateral too.

If he succeeded the first year you should consider giving him a bonus of at least 200 cases of his choice of liquor and cigarettes.

[John Kavanaugh]

Here's an idea for the future of golf course maintenance.

Find a good super, make him a member of the club, consider making him the president of the club, give him what he considers to be a fairly minimal operating and capital budget, then leave him alone and watch what he can do. I know that's sort of tongue in check but someone ought to try it to see what happens.

We do that at Lawrence County CC and have a perfectly playable 9 hole course with a total budget under $100,000 including salaries and capital expenditures.  How could we not given dues are $480 per year.  The supers have always been members and played in all the club events including calcuttas and club championships.  In an obvious and understandable double standard, the pro who is also a member does play in calcuttas but him or his son would not play in club championships.  Our last super who retired was also give a lifetime membership.

One thing I like about our super is that him and the crew will order in pizzas for lunch and eat them in the clubhouse.  I have been known to scarf a leftover piece or two.  note: Supers are also notoriously poor poker players, a good thing during the winter months.

One other trick that has worked in the past is to put slot machines in the back room.  The super and his crew not only donate their salaries back to the club, they also bring in what ever money they can get out of either their wifes or mothers purse, depending on their living situation that week.

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