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Joe Bausch

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early fall visit to Twisted Dune (w/ pics)
« on: October 03, 2008, 03:16:21 PM »
In another thread I posted a couple of pics of centerline bunkers at Twisted Dune in Egg Harbor Township, NJ, done by fellow GCA.com'er Archie Struthers.  I've looked in the archives and did not find any thread with lots of pics of this very interesting course.  This was my first time there and from a number of golfing friends I had spoken to, I had the feeling this would be an interesting layout and one that also tends to be generate strong feelings.

Here's the routing:



The round begins with a relatively simple par 4:




Next is a much more difficult par 4 of 432 yards:




The first par 3 comes at the 3rd with an interesting set of staggered bunkers short of the green:




The fourth is the first of a very nice set of par 5's, with this one running uphill at the end:





The fifth is a shortish dogleg left par 4:





A 425 yard par 4 follows:






The 8th is a longish par 4:





The 8th is a little par 3:




The 9th comes back to the clubhouse, the first of 3 par 5's in the next four holes.  The first pic is from the tips:





The 10th is another par 5, the first pic from the elevated back tee:





The 11th is another 400+ yard par 4, moving slightly right, and if you are in the right part of the fairway you'll have at best an obstructed view of the green:





Then the 3rd of the par 5's in the last 4 holes is the 12th, perhaps my fave on the course:







The 13th is almost 200 yards from the tips and not real visible from the tee is water looming right of the green:





The No 2 handicap hole is the dogleg right par 4 14th.  The first pic is the rather intimidating view from the back tee, and the 2nd pic a view from the fairway back to the tees with the 13th green in view:






The 15th is a par 4 with some decent elevation change:





The 16th is probably my favorite par 3, over 200 yards from the tips, with a substantial carry of some junk:





The next hole, 17, is a slightly dogleg left par 4 with a green perched up a bit, looking different than most others on the course:





From the tips, the 18th is just a monster of 486 yards (how guys on tour can play par 4's this long is amazing!):





Overall, I would agree in some other threads that called nearby McCullough's 'Twisted Dune Light'.  The two courses are somewhat similar in places.  I enjoyed my first trip round TD and hope my next time will be in less soggy conditions.  The fairways are so wide there and with the wet ground last Sunday it was pretty easy to keep the ball from the dunes.  In firm conditions that would obviously change.

If you're thinking about playing TD this fall, recognize on Sundays after 1 PM they are charging only 49 bucks.  For that area you won't find anything a better value, IMO.





@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

Bruce Katona

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Re: early fall visit to Twisted Dune (w/ pics)
« Reply #1 on: October 03, 2008, 05:14:53 PM »
Joe: Great pics.....glad you had a good time....it's always nice to receive feedback (good feedback id better) on one of our assets.

Dan Herrmann

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Re: early fall visit to Twisted Dune (w/ pics)
« Reply #2 on: October 03, 2008, 07:50:06 PM »
I've always really enjoyed TD.  I think it's a club that grows on you (a good thing).

Kyle Harris

Re: early fall visit to Twisted Dune (w/ pics)
« Reply #3 on: October 03, 2008, 08:39:45 PM »
Joe,

Could you expound on your attitude regarding the 12th hole on the tee and then from walking off the green?

I think the change in perception of a hole as one plays it is important and it was very telling that your opinion changed so much as we played.

Joe Bausch

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Re: early fall visit to Twisted Dune (w/ pics)
« Reply #4 on: October 03, 2008, 08:47:59 PM »
Joe,

Could you expound on your attitude regarding the 12th hole on the tee and then from walking off the green?

I think the change in perception of a hole as one plays it is important and it was very telling that your opinion changed so much as we played.

The 12th doesn't seem anything particularly interesting, at least to my eyes, from the tee and even from the drive landing area.  This hole becomes very good at the green, which somehow is very deceptive in the slope.  It appears pretty darn flat, but in reality falls very hard to the left.
@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

mike_malone

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Re: early fall visit to Twisted Dune (w/ pics)
« Reply #5 on: October 04, 2008, 10:10:13 AM »
 Joe,

   Thanks for the pictures. It reminds me of the variety at TD. You get all types of shots, looks, stances, clubs to hit. I don't think much about what a round of golf costs before I play the course. But, afterwards , I do think about the pleasure/ cost ratio. It is very high at TD. I don't think it is much higher at any course I have ever played.
AKA Mayday

Kalen Braley

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Re: early fall visit to Twisted Dune (w/ pics)
« Reply #6 on: October 04, 2008, 10:28:49 AM »
Joe,

Thanks for posting pics of the course.  While looking thru the many pics, i kept noticing the tree line in the distance in pretty much every direction.

Was this course built from nothing in Whistling Straights fashion, where the forest was leveled and sand brought in? Or were the dunes already there in a pocket of forest and just pushed around a bit to accomdate a course?.  If I had to take a guess, I'm thinking its the 1st case as it seems the fairways and green play thru all the flat bits instead of incroprating the undulations a little more. However this could be as simple as the 2 dimemsional pictures making the place look flat.

Kalen

Sean_A

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Re: early fall visit to Twisted Dune (w/ pics)
« Reply #7 on: October 05, 2008, 05:56:06 PM »
The course looks interesting.  A few questions

Does the course seem a bit back and forthy?

Are the dunes natural?

Do any holes play over the dunes rather than between them? 

How much of a nuisance is it to have two holes cut off by the road?

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Dan Herrmann

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Re: early fall visit to Twisted Dune (w/ pics)
« Reply #8 on: October 05, 2008, 07:42:52 PM »
Sean,
From what I recall, the course was built on an old sand quarry, not unlike Tobacco Road.  The dunes are man-made.  By and large, the dunes aren't played over, they're played through.

There's a little back and forth, but it's certainly not a big deal where it happens.  The routing is fine to me.

I've never noticed any problem with holes by the road at TD.

Mike_Cirba

Re: early fall visit to Twisted Dune (w/ pics)
« Reply #9 on: October 05, 2008, 08:36:45 PM »
Twisted Dune is a terrific course, which falls into the architectural category of almost completely manufactured.   

To answer a few questions, as Dan mentioned, their was an old sand quarry on the property but most of the land was dead flat.   The road crossing that Sean mentions is something I've never noted previously...I believe it's a sandy dirt road.

I do wish that some of the holes challenged the dunes a bit more obliquely, and I've mentioned to Archie a couple of things that I think would be slight improvements, but overall, it's certainly one of the top 2-3 public courses in the state of NJ and tremendous fun, especially in a good breeze.

mike_malone

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Re: early fall visit to Twisted Dune (w/ pics)
« Reply #10 on: October 05, 2008, 09:41:25 PM »
Sean,

     There are high tension wires running through the course that cuts off the two holes from the rest of the course.
AKA Mayday

Jon Heise

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Re: early fall visit to Twisted Dune (w/ pics)
« Reply #11 on: October 05, 2008, 10:58:25 PM »
Course looks awesome!  I like those flat fairway bunkers, on 12 a whole lot. 
I still like Greywalls better.

Kyle Harris

Re: early fall visit to Twisted Dune (w/ pics)
« Reply #12 on: October 06, 2008, 05:33:48 AM »
Course looks awesome!  I like those flat fairway bunkers, on 12 a whole lot. 

They're definitely not flat.

archie_struthers

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Re: early fall visit to Twisted Dune (w/ pics)
« Reply #13 on: October 06, 2008, 10:28:16 AM »
 8) ;D ;)


Hey guys ...just a few notes regarding "Twisted"  ...the land was stone flat when we started ...no sand quarry till we started excavation, it was flat with small trees and scrub ..typical NJ land ...my friend Gary Sawhill .. an environmental engineer from  Smithville. NJ ...called me about a bib parcel owned by the Nugent family on Ocean Hieghts Avenue in EHT < NJ......he asked me if you could build a golf course by digging down....and after about ten seconds I answered "probably" , but the costs to export the extraneous materail would be enormous  ...he then asked how about if you can sell the fill ?

Interesting question?

about twenty minutes later I showed up at his door...and we started talking about the land  ...265 acres just ten minutes from the beach .... he told me that there had been some tests done on site that showed first water at more than fifty feet..which is very unusual for land in our area..

Gary then told me that the Borgata needed at least 5 million tons of fill to stabilize the H-Tract where two or three casinos were envisioned...at $4 million dollars for the land ....if we could sell the waste product of the design (clean fill) perhaps there was a good business deal to be done.....it took me a little more than ten seconds to see the whole picture but about two minutes later I was thinking of Shadow Creek East ..for about thirty five million less  !  LOL

Rather than bring in fill to make dunes we could basically rip up the site to create elevations...and by digging  down it's much easier to make the appearance natural....the biggest problem  was exporting the material out...but we had an end buyer ...,maybe !!!

We bought the land , and I have to give my partners at the time some credit for trusting me on this one , but we had experienced nice success at Greate Bay with our golf operation and had some cash flow from operations to help us...note this was before the golf "recession" if we had gotten fair market value for the "dirt" we sold , I'd be able to invite you all down to play for free all the time...but that's another twisted story!

We had some nasty fights getting permitted , standard procedure in NJ, but the state needed to fill the H-Tract , and eventually saw us as an answer to cheap dirt for the casino site... my original proposal to Egg Harbor Township for Senior Citizen housing and a really nice , smaller golf course that would take up about 150 acres didn't get any traction..to this day I can't fathom why, so Twisted got bigger...and took up more of the already large site...

Perhaps the difficulty in permitting  had something to do with the Municipal Golf Course that the mayor and Township were working on  ( McCullagh's Emerald Links has been talked about  on site )  The senior housing gofl course project would have been great for the township ...but who can ever explain politics!!!  This being said , I never thought we would be competing for the same dollar , as we were working with a casino for exclusive rights to use the new golf course...note Park Place Entertainment had already bought Atlantic City CC  , and Caesars and the Borgata were in full scale competition for the customer...this pushed me to envision  Twisted Dune as unique to the area...rather than just a nice golf course with ancillary housing...when Harrah's bought Park Place amd then Caesars competition for players got a little muddied...

So there is most of it, hope it wasn't too boring.,

  Twisted Dune was built on dead flat...but high and dry land, we cut down 40-70 feet over the majority of the acreage and sold  a lot of the fill generated to the H- Tract.... from an architectural perspective Twisted Dune accomplished my original goal...to build something "different" that would be fun to play and able to host a tough day tournament at the same time ... maybe we can have a "shoot out"  there before winter sets in!



« Last Edit: October 06, 2008, 11:20:14 AM by archie_struthers »

Joe Bausch

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Re: early fall visit to Twisted Dune (w/ pics)
« Reply #14 on: October 06, 2008, 10:32:39 AM »
Now that's good info Archie!  Many thanks.
@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

Richard Boult


Joe Bausch

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Re: early fall visit to Twisted Dune (w/ pics)
« Reply #16 on: October 07, 2008, 10:48:05 AM »
Archie, were the ponds there or were they the result of digging in the dirt?
@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

archie_struthers

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Re: early fall visit to Twisted Dune (w/ pics)
« Reply #17 on: October 07, 2008, 11:18:14 AM »
 ;) ;) ;)


everything is new , including ponds..

mike_malone

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Re: early fall visit to Twisted Dune (w/ pics)
« Reply #18 on: October 07, 2008, 11:33:04 AM »
 What the hell does this Struthers guy know about TD ? Who the hell does he think he is ?
AKA Mayday

Jay Flemma

Re: early fall visit to Twisted Dune (w/ pics)
« Reply #19 on: October 07, 2008, 04:40:22 PM »
Hey Joe, glad you liked TD and it was great seeing you at Beechtree.  As the song goes, "So glad you made it, so glad you made it..."

Don't sing the rest of the song... ;D

Anyway, glad you liked TD too. Archie, glad to have you here and thanks for the insights.  I've always thought the course had a strong and long finish (from 13 on!).

What do y'all think of the greens?  What are the best on the course?  Pix please...I'll post some soon...

Joe Bausch

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: early fall visit to Twisted Dune (w/ pics)
« Reply #20 on: October 07, 2008, 06:36:13 PM »
Hey Joe, glad you liked TD and it was great seeing you at Beechtree.  As the song goes, "So glad you made it, so glad you made it..."

Don't sing the rest of the song... ;D

Anyway, glad you liked TD too. Archie, glad to have you here and thanks for the insights.  I've always thought the course had a strong and long finish (from 13 on!).

What do y'all think of the greens?  What are the best on the course?  Pix please...I'll post some soon...

Jay, perhaps the fumes from the chemical spill on I-95 last week obscured your ability to see the pics this thread started with!  ;)

I took about 130 total, and they are in sequence here:

http://darwin.chem.villanova.edu/~bausch/images/Twisted_Dune/index.html

If there are any there of a green you want to see posted, just yell with the picture number and I'll make a link to it so you can comment on it.  I might have to give it some thought, or play there again, but I really liked the 12th.  It is kind of hard to explain why.... but it just seemed rather flat but wasn't.  I was nearly pin high right in two, but my 3rd was a little pitch and run that I thought would be real good, and it just kept going and going like the Energizer bunny and ran off the green!

And, yes, I'd still like to chat with you about Cobb's Creek.  :)
@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection