[Deucie Bies]

Can the first at N. Berwick come anywhere close to matching the quirk factor of the first at Prestwick??

My opinion #1 N. Berwick is much more quirky than #1 at Prestwick.

Agreed.

[Kalen Braley]

Jason,

Thanks for the pic.  Doesn't look like a weak hole to me..granted its just one pic off a camera phone.  If this is the worst hole on the course, I could live with that.  But I'm a professed lover of quirk.  Nothing like hitting 4 iron off the 1st tee followed by a wedge over a duneish looking hill to a small green.  Thats a nice little handshake to start things off in my book. 

I am curious though...whats up with the Astro-turf?

Tom,

Very bummed you didn't bust out the high heels for KP...you woulda been a instant hit. 

[Tom Huckaby]

Jason,

Thanks for the pic.  Doesn't look like a weak hole to me..granted its just one pic off a camera phone.  If this is the worst hole on the course, I could live with that.  But I'm a professed lover of quirk.  Nothing like hitting 4 iron off the 1st tee followed by a wedge over a duneish looking hill to a small green.  Thats a nice little handshake to start things off in my book.

Tom,

Very bummed you didn't bust out the high heels for KP...you woulda been a instant hit. 

Kalen - who says I didn't?

[Kalen Braley]

Jason,

Thanks for the pic.  Doesn't look like a weak hole to me..granted its just one pic off a camera phone.  If this is the worst hole on the course, I could live with that.  But I'm a professed lover of quirk.  Nothing like hitting 4 iron off the 1st tee followed by a wedge over a duneish looking hill to a small green.  Thats a nice little handshake to start things off in my book.

Tom,

Very bummed you didn't bust out the high heels for KP...you woulda been a instant hit. 

Kalen - who says I didn't?

Hey C'mon now

You couldn't have slipped something like that past me...you know I was checking you out...in a purely plutonic kind of way.    

[TX Golf]

Seems that the consensus is that N. Berwick #1 is more quirky than Prestwick #1. However, judging from the picture, which only shows the first half of the whole I have to say Prestwick #1 looks like a much better hole. Is this the case? I personally LOVED the first at Prestwick.

[Voytek Wilczak]

Nothing.

A great first hole, like the first at the TOC.

[Tom_Doak]

Voytek:

I don't think the first at North Berwick is an awful hole, but there's no way it's as good as the first hole at St. Andrews.  At St. Andrews a good player might play well out to the left in order to get an angle over the burn to attack the hole.  At North Berwick, unless you are strong enough to let it rip at the green (and risk killing somebody at the sea-shore), you just bunt the tee shot down short of the rough at the base of the hill with a 5-iron and go from there.  Other than hitting the tee shot OB right, or too far, there is not much there to think about.  However, the green is underrated, and the setting is certainly sublime.

[Bill_McBride]

I disagree there's nothing to think about on that first tee ball at North Berwick.

You have to hit a solid mid or long iron on your first shot of the day.    With no driving range or warm up facility.

The closer you are to the nasty deep rough and beach down the right, the more visible and better angle for your second shot up the hill.  Therefore you either play into a narrow and tight area off the tee and set up a reasonably easy 9 iron or PW, or you bail left and then have a much more blind second from a little farther back, toward the trouble to the right of the green.  You haven't lived until you have tried to recover from the rocks and rough down there. 

I guess I am capable of overthinking any situation, but I don't think #1 at North Berwick is a throwaway starting hole at all.

While you are up on the green, you can also walk up toward the 17th green off to the left and think about the old days when those greens were connected as a double green!   

[Bryan Izatt]

I'm with you Bill.  What does that Doak guy know. 

Kalen,

Here's some more pics: looking up the 18th to the first green (first fairway to the right); the second shot; looking back from the green to the town.

[Sean_A]

The 1st is ok - especially as a 1st.  Lets face it, the Rihcmeister is wrongo.  Any hole with that greensite can't be bad no matter what game you are playing.  Though I think it would be better as a par 3 - in fact, it could be a stunning par 3 opener.

Ciao

[Tom Huckaby]

The 1st is ok - especially as a 1st.  Though I think it would be better as a par 3 - in fact, it could be a stunning par 3 opener.

Ciao

Wow... that is one hell of a thought.  Push the tees up to 200 at most - we don't want it TOO crazy hard given it's the first hole, do we?  Also we'd have to leave bailout room.. is their fairway up over the hill, short left?

Man this is one intriguing idea.  Well done Sean.

TH

[Melvyn Morrow]

What's wrong with the 1st hole at North Berwick

Before anyone answers this question I would suggest we remember it’s a Scottish course and it should be viewed with that in mind. Many of our older courses tend to introduce the golfer to a steady start and being a Links course is not really setup for aerial combat.

Once we have examined the period of the course and its location we should then select the type of game we play i.e. we must play the course and not our usual game, that’s reserved for the sheltered inland courses kept in well manicured and pristine conditions. I love the links courses, the weather and wind makes the game, test the resolve and challenges the skill (not mine as I have none). It is surely the only real enjoyable way to play.

So come on guys view each course on its own merits, don’t judge by your normal standards, but by addressing the challenge in front of you – it makes for more enjoyable Golf and that must be the aim for most golfers.  

[Bill_McBride]

Jason,

Thanks for the pic.  Doesn't look like a weak hole to me..granted its just one pic off a camera phone.  If this is the worst hole on the course, I could live with that.  But I'm a professed lover of quirk.  Nothing like hitting 4 iron off the 1st tee followed by a wedge over a duneish looking hill to a small green.  Thats a nice little handshake to start things off in my book. 

I am curious though...whats up with the Astro-turf?

Kalen, lots of rain in the winter in Scotland but the Scots still want to play, so you find odd bits of Astroturf in high traffic areas. 

[Sean_A]

The 1st is ok - especially as a 1st.  Though I think it would be better as a par 3 - in fact, it could be a stunning par 3 opener.

Ciao

Wow... that is one hell of a thought.  Push the tees up to 200 at most - we don't want it TOO crazy hard given it's the first hole, do we?  Also we'd have to leave bailout room.. is their fairway up over the hill, short left?

Man this is one intriguing idea.  Well done Sean.

TH

AwsHuckster

I think how far the tee can be pushed forward is dependent on the where it gets in the way of the 18th fairway.  How far that is, I don't know.

Ciao

[Tom Huckaby]

Another great point Sean.  I don't know either.

I was just thinking we don't want more than 200 for the shot.

But man it would be one hell of a stunning par three.

TH

[Kalen Braley]

Bryan,

Thanks for posting those.  I understand I've never been there and never played it, but those pics don't look too offensive to me.  They look darn good, but once again, have fessed up to being a quirk junkie.  And IMO, once again just based on pictures, this hole appears to be much more interesting than #9 at TOC.

[Dan Kelly]

It's goofy.

Regardless of what you hit off the tee and how well you hit it you are completely guessing on the second shot in terms of both line and length, even if you decide to hold up the rest of the course by walking up the hill to see where the pin is.  It's great fun if you are just playing a bounce game, but if you are playing any sort of serious golf it is not a serious golf hole, just goofy.

Rich

Rihc --

What does "goofy" mean -- generically speaking?

No offense, my good man -- but your disdain for the 1st at North Berwick makes you sound more than a little like a PGA TOUR (tm) professional!

Is that completely blind par-3 at NB (can't remember the number) a goofy hole?

Dan

[Bob_Huntley]

It's goofy.

Regardless of what you hit off the tee and how well you hit it you are completely guessing on the second shot in terms of both line and length, even if you decide to hold up the rest of the course by walking up the hill to see where the pin is.  It's great fun if you are just playing a bounce game, but if you are playing any sort of serious golf it is not a serious golf hole, just goofy.

Rich

Farnsworth old chap, you are absolutely right.

Melvyn, rightly so, makes mention of tradition and playing what you see, but the hole is goofy.

Before anyone calls me a Philistine, I would point out I love links courses with a passion and have spent more time than I should have in playing them. It doesn't however prevent me from criticising the first at NB.

Bob

[Mike_Cirba]

Bob.

You, Sir, are a Philistine!

[Kalen Braley]

Bob,

Being the ignoramus I am...I googled the term "Philistine" and it came up with this.  I guess I can see a little bit of a resemblance.    

Edit:  Oh wait, this is a picture from one of the guys in the band called "Philistine". 

[Bob_Huntley]

Kalen,

Now that is a riot.

As a younger man, I saw Ubangi women whose lips were deformed by incisions and huge plates inserted in the orifice. Other times I saw men and women with cicatrix covering the body, some in the most astonishing places. I put it down to ill informed and and primitive customs.

Imagine my chagrin when I see tattoos and body piercing on so-called sophisticates in the Western world. The nose and ear punctures might not be too painful to bear but when I hear of nipple rings and, God forbid, other naughty bits, I shudder.


Now, back to architecture and the first hole at North Berwick.

[Kalen Braley]

Kalen,

Now that is a riot.

As a younger man, I saw Ubangi women whose lips were deformed by incisions and huge plates inserted in the orifice. Other times I saw men and women with cicatrix covering the body, some in the most astonishing places. I put it down to ill informed and and primitive customs.

Imagine my chagrin when I see tattoos and body piercing on so-called sophisticates in the Western world. The nose and ear punctures might not be too painful to bear but when I hear of nipple rings and, God forbid, other naughty bits, I shudder.


Now, back to architecture and the first hole at North Berwick.

Ahh Bob,

Thats why we love you.....cause you bring so much insightful perspective to the board!!   


Agreed back to #1, a few questions for the anti crowd.

Which parts of # 1 are most offensive to you?
The layup tee shot?
OB right?
The blind approach?
Or the Astroturf just off the tee box? 

P.S.  A girl with pierced tongue....all I can say is oh man!!   

[Anthony Gray]

What's wrong with the 1st hole at North Berwick

Before anyone answers this question I would suggest we remember it’s a Scottish course and it should be viewed with that in mind. Many of our older courses tend to introduce the golfer to a steady start and being a Links course is not really setup for aerial combat.

Once we have examined the period of the course and its location we should then select the type of game we play i.e. we must play the course and not our usual game, that’s reserved for the sheltered inland courses kept in well manicured and pristine conditions. I love the links courses, the weather and wind makes the game, test the resolve and challenges the skill (not mine as I have none). It is surely the only real enjoyable way to play.

So come on guys view each course on its own merits, don’t judge by your normal standards, but by addressing the challenge in front of you – it makes for more enjoyable Golf and that must be the aim for most golfers.  

  That response I give a perfect 10. IN THE BEGINING were not golf courses quirky?

[Melvyn Morrow]

Anthony

Quirky – No golf courses are just Golf courses – quirky is a modern term being used to describe a natural golf course. I expect the word has become acceptable in areas that do not have a balanced PH with its surroundings or a modicum of normal natural nature to relax the golfer. So anything non man made is now to be described as quirky.

So, quirky is alien to me as I see no quirks, I just see a beautiful course in total harmony with its surroundings, rough at the edges, smooth and perhaps undulating to its centre leading to the ultimate pleasure of life, the struggle to return from whence we came. But certainly not quirky, just unbelievably natural and enjoyable.   

Quirky indeed

[Anthony Gray]

Anthony

Quirky – No golf courses are just Golf courses – quirky is a modern term being used to describe a natural golf course. I expect the word has become acceptable in areas that do not have a balanced PH with its surroundings or a modicum of normal natural nature to relax the golfer. So anything non man made is now to be described as quirky.

So, quirky is alien to me as I see no quirks, I just see a beautiful course in total harmony with its surroundings, rough at the edges, smooth and perhaps undulating to its centre leading to the ultimate pleasure of life, the struggle to return from whence we came. But certainly not quirky, just unbelievably natural and enjoyable.   

Quirky indeed

  Excellent!!!!!!! What a true RENAISSANCE golfer. I wish there were more.

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