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Charlie Goerges

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Photo tour of the Quarry at Giants Ridge
« on: September 26, 2008, 08:01:38 PM »
Hi all,

When searching for course tours I couldn’t find one for The Quarry at Giants Ridge, so I thought I would post the photos that I have. The course is in Biwabik, MN and was designed by Jeff Brauer. They aren’t great photos as I was touring around the course when they were aerating. It was also before they opened for the season, so I didn’t get to play, so I won’t be able to post any insights RE how it plays. Therefore anyone with comments please feel free to add them. (All yardages are from the back tees. And the black stuff in the images is where they burned the native areas.)

Aerial cribbed from Google Earth (I added hole numbers).



Yardage of the course is 7201 from the tips.

Hole 2 Par 5 575 yards(forgot to take images of 1):









Looking back from the green:


Hole 3 Par 4 444 yards(only took one shot back from the green)





Hole 4 Par 3 269 yards





Hole 5 Par 5 525 yards









Hole 6 Par 4 369 yards







Hole 7 Par 3 189 yards





Looking back from green:


Hole 8 Par 4 478 yards







Looking back from green:


Hole 9 Par 4 377 yards

Way more room in the landing area than there appears from the tee…





…as this view shows.




Looking back from green:


Hole 10 Par 4 362 yards





Love the ripples:


Hole 11 Par 3 158 yards







Hole 12 Par 4 486 yards







Hole 13 Par 4 323 yards

Cool looking hole







Looking back from the green:


Hole 14 Par 5 513 yards (Sorry, just the one shot)





Hole 15 Par 4 454 yards

Someone chime in here and let us know if you can blast a driver or if you need to lay back from the precipice…



…the edge of which is shown here. Also note, that the green begins at about where the garden hose runs across the frame.




Hole 16 Par 5 558 yards

I don’t believe that the closest bunker is easily reachable, but perhaps someone who has played can chime in.





Looking back from the green:


Hole 17 Par 3 220 yards





Hole 18 Par 4 468 yards













Nice view of an old mining pit:


« Last Edit: September 27, 2008, 08:28:17 AM by Charlie Goerges »
Severally on the occasion of everything that thou doest, pause and ask thyself, if death is a dreadful thing because it deprives thee of this. - Marcus Aurelius

Jeff_Brauer

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Re: Photo tour of the Quarry at Giants Ridge
« Reply #1 on: September 26, 2008, 08:42:38 PM »
The last photo shows my proposed location for the suggestion box - out on that platform in the lake.....
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Mike_Cirba

Re: Photo tour of the Quarry at Giants Ridge
« Reply #2 on: September 26, 2008, 08:45:16 PM »
Wow...that looks pretty darn good!   Some very intriguing and bold looking holes!

Who the heck designed it??  ;)


the only downside is it looks as though they have a serious rabbit problem.  ;D

Charlie Goerges

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Re: Photo tour of the Quarry at Giants Ridge
« Reply #3 on: September 26, 2008, 08:58:30 PM »
If you think herding cats is tough, try herding rabbits

Also, I'll add yardages and a few more comments as I get a chance, I just wanted to get it posted
« Last Edit: September 26, 2008, 09:00:52 PM by Charlie Goerges »
Severally on the occasion of everything that thou doest, pause and ask thyself, if death is a dreadful thing because it deprives thee of this. - Marcus Aurelius

Shane Wright

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Re: Photo tour of the Quarry at Giants Ridge
« Reply #4 on: September 26, 2008, 10:09:35 PM »
Charlie - thanks for posting the pictures.  Playing Giant's Ridge right now in full bloom really reveals the beauty.  I might be going up there in a couple of weeks (with sleeves!) and will post pics if I can.

I wanted to comment on hole #15 where you asked someone to chime in.  Blasting a driver depends on how long your blast is, but driver is definitely too much for most and 3 wood CAN be too much for the long hitters in the middle of summer when it is running a little faster.  It is a really fun 2nd shot down to the green but my opinion is that the tee ball is one of the ONLY weak shots on the course.  I'm not a fan of not being able to let a 3 wood fly on a 450+ hole let along a driver.  But the course is loaded with great holes and IMO better than Wildnerness-Fortune Bay.  I think Wilderness is MUCH easier which is why I think many vote it higher because it doesn't beat you up quite as much.   Giant's Ridge (Quarry) is tough from the tips.

Thanks again for sharing the pics.

Bruce Leland

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Re: Photo tour of the Quarry at Giants Ridge
« Reply #5 on: September 26, 2008, 10:22:44 PM »
I am not a long ball hitter so on 16, the bunker is not reachable for me off the tee.  On 15 I blast a driver and it sets up a long iron into the green.  This is a very good hole but I thought the green complex was a little severe for the length of the second.  If I hit it over 300 yards, my opinion might differ
« Last Edit: September 27, 2008, 09:54:35 AM by Bruce Leland »
"The mystique of Muirfield lingers on. So does the memory of Carnoustie's foreboding. So does the scenic wonder of Turnberry and the haunting incredibility of Prestwick, and the pleasant deception of Troon. But put them altogether and St. Andrew's can play their low ball for atmosphere." Dan Jenkins

Jeff_Brauer

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Re: Photo tour of the Quarry at Giants Ridge
« Reply #6 on: September 26, 2008, 10:40:21 PM »
Shane,

Yes, 15 gets the most critiques on the course.  The grading plans proposed a speed slot left and level spot right.  My thought was you could go home and say you hit a 454 yard par 4 with driver and wedge.  But as I looked at it in the field, I was afraid of the potential erosion problems of tearing out the natural veggies on that steep slope.  I also couldn't envision grading the speed slot so that balls wouldn't end up in that little jurisdictional wetland.  So, I went with the "Flynn style interupted fw".

If you look at the aerials, you can see potential for new back tees, either on the mound left of the original tees or even back across the cart path behind 10 green (or both) which I have suggested.  For top players, I think they would also benefit from adding back tees on 2 to allow a long driver to bust it right up to the edge of the pit and 8, to keep the cart path out of play.  If the carry on 16 gets too easy in the future, there is also room behind the existing tee to expand that one back.  7200 yards, and 4 years old, and we are already thinking about expanding it!  Ouch.

Bruce,

I might agree the 15th is severe for a near 200 yard approach but 16 for a reachable par 5 is too severe?  Which are you referring to there?
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Charlie Goerges

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Re: Photo tour of the Quarry at Giants Ridge
« Reply #7 on: September 26, 2008, 11:15:14 PM »
In principle I don't have any problem with the "fairwayvus interruptum" because it's the only time that even the very long hitter is going to have 200 yards in. Even on the 478 yard 8th, I can image a big hitter having 7-8 iron in. Of course maybe I'd be bitching about it if I'd played it.

FWIW I thought the 9th would be my favorite hole and the 18th has a neat devious bunker that I was not prescient enough to snap a photo of. Does anyone have a picture of the left bunker that's about 15 yards short of the green especially if it is from immediately in front of it?

P.S. You're welcome Shane, and if you do take some pics, definitely post them to the thread.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2008, 11:17:31 PM by Charlie Goerges »
Severally on the occasion of everything that thou doest, pause and ask thyself, if death is a dreadful thing because it deprives thee of this. - Marcus Aurelius

Mike_Cirba

Re: Photo tour of the Quarry at Giants Ridge
« Reply #8 on: September 26, 2008, 11:59:21 PM »
Jeff,

Seriously, the course looks absolutely terrific!

I really hope to get up there and see it for myself.   The word that comes to mind is a really good one..."bold".

I'd also ask our GCA cognescenti to look carefully at the pics and check out how many natural features are utilized and even accentuated in some of the man-created architectural features.

I think most of the blending is very, very good, and it's clear to me that the decision-making around how to use those bumps and mounds, and drops, and hollows looks to me to be very well-conceived and executed.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2008, 12:05:36 AM by MikeCirba »

Rob Rigg

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Re: Photo tour of the Quarry at Giants Ridge
« Reply #9 on: September 27, 2008, 01:09:32 AM »
Charlie,

Thanks for posting the pictures - this is a striking layout with tremendous natural beauty that has been maintained in the design. I think the bunkering is very tasteful.

When you see pictures of a course that is so aesthetically pleasing, it really illustrates how much of an eyesore cart paths are (OT).

What is the yardage from the tips? Looks like a pretty long layout.

Cheers

Paul Nash

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Re: Photo tour of the Quarry at Giants Ridge
« Reply #10 on: September 27, 2008, 05:32:05 AM »
The course looks great - where is it?

cary lichtenstein

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Re: Photo tour of the Quarry at Giants Ridge
« Reply #11 on: September 27, 2008, 07:55:00 AM »
First class exciting golf course...I recommend it to everybody
Live Jupiter, Fl, was  4 handicap, played top 100 US, top 75 World. Great memories, no longer play, 4 back surgeries. I don't miss a lot of things about golf, life is simpler with out it. I miss my 60 degree wedge shots, don't miss nasty weather, icing, back spasms. Last course I played was Augusta

Charlie Goerges

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Re: Photo tour of the Quarry at Giants Ridge
« Reply #12 on: September 27, 2008, 08:26:17 AM »
The course is in Biwabik, MN and is just over 7200 yards from the back tees. It was designed by Jeff Brauer (I neglected to mention this fact, I guess I assumed that this was common knowledge, like Donald Ross and Pinehurst #2 :D)
Severally on the occasion of everything that thou doest, pause and ask thyself, if death is a dreadful thing because it deprives thee of this. - Marcus Aurelius

Richard Boult

Re: Photo tour of the Quarry at Giants Ridge
« Reply #13 on: September 27, 2008, 08:53:12 AM »
Added to our gca photo tour directory at:

http://delicious.com/golfclubatlas/Minnesota

Bruce Leland

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Re: Photo tour of the Quarry at Giants Ridge
« Reply #14 on: September 27, 2008, 09:58:36 AM »

Bruce,

I might agree the 15th is severe for a near 200 yard approach but 16 for a reachable par 5 is too severe?  Which are you referring to there?
Jeff, sorry, I had my holes enumerated in the wrong order. It now reads as intended.  Great course, btw!  But for the distance between the two courses, one could make an exceptional combination course as was compiled here for Monterey Pen. CC.

I've only played The Wilderness once but will return next year as it is a terrific venue as well.
"The mystique of Muirfield lingers on. So does the memory of Carnoustie's foreboding. So does the scenic wonder of Turnberry and the haunting incredibility of Prestwick, and the pleasant deception of Troon. But put them altogether and St. Andrew's can play their low ball for atmosphere." Dan Jenkins

Carl Nichols

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Re: Photo tour of the Quarry at Giants Ridge
« Reply #15 on: September 27, 2008, 10:25:16 AM »
Looks really cool. 

15's interrupted fairway reminds me a lot of what's now 17 at Congressional Blue -- long hitters have to hit something less than driver in order to lay back of where the fairway ends at a steep slope that's covered with thick rough.  The 2nd shot at Congressional is probably slightly shorter but also more uphill, with more bunkers protecting the front of the green, while at the Quarry there appears to be more of a chance to run up the second shot. 

Jeff -- did you consider the 17th at Congressional when designing this hole?

Jason McNamara

Re: Photo tour of the Quarry at Giants Ridge
« Reply #16 on: September 27, 2008, 11:43:43 AM »
Thanks for the pics - great looking course.  Two questions:

1.  About how far out is that nasty little bunker on 13?  (I realize the answer is "just the right distance," but how much is that?)   :)

2.  Other than the slog from 16 to 17 (300 yds?), how walkable is it?

OK, a third...

3.  Fairways seem pretty wide.  Is that more a wind issue, a resort course issue, or both?

Jeff_Brauer

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Re: Photo tour of the Quarry at Giants Ridge
« Reply #17 on: September 27, 2008, 11:53:33 AM »
Bruce,

I recall adding that little mound on the front right at the last minute on the 15th green.  That little hump is the thing that I think might be too severe there.

Carl,

That hole at Congressional didn't enter my thinking, having never seen it.  I was aware of drop off holes like 9 at Muirfield Village but again, didn't want to take out that steep spoil bank and smooth it to fw.  As mentioned, my first thought was some kind of fw speed slot but it just didn't seem to work.

Probably the biggest overall inspirations were my then recent trip to Ireland (holes like 6 and 9) and a trip to Tobacco Road and World Woods with the Owners reprs to see just how far I could push the state of MN in that direction of a wild looking course.  Hole 2 is higly derivative of the Strantz style at TR.

Jason,

Its only about 200 out. We considered taking it out.  The end of the left fw requires no more than 220 from the back tees.  I think the course is very walkable, with the long walk to 17 being the lone exception.  Also, the climb to 5 and 14 tees is pretty stiff.  I once suggested that they upgrade their ski lifts and put some old chair lifts in those two locations.  Wind is not a huge factor out there.  I just like wide fw for options, etc.  Even with those, the course may have the highest slope rating in MN, so its not like they make the course easier as a resort.
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Mike Mosely

Re: Photo tour of the Quarry at Giants Ridge
« Reply #18 on: September 27, 2008, 01:43:04 PM »
Jeff,

Seriously, the course looks absolutely terrific!

I really hope to get up there and see it for myself.   The word that comes to mind is a really good one..."bold".

I'd also ask our GCA cognescenti to look carefully at the pics and check out how many natural features are utilized and even accentuated in some of the man-created architectural features.

I think most of the blending is very, very good, and it's clear to me that the decision-making around how to use those bumps and mounds, and drops, and hollows looks to me to be very well-conceived and executed.

Yeah, Jef, I like the look too.  Nice thread and great pix guys.

HOW ABOUT THE WILDERNESS?!  Can we get a photo tour of that next?

Jason McNamara

Re: Photo tour of the Quarry at Giants Ridge
« Reply #19 on: September 27, 2008, 05:03:57 PM »
[The bunker on 13] is only about 200 out. We considered taking it out.  The end of the left fw requires no more than 220 from the back tees. 

No, definitely leave it - that's right in the Pete Dye wheelhouse, i.e. "Once I make the golfer start to think, he's screwed."   :)  And you give the golfer 5 more holes to think about how he made a hash of a short par 4.

Thanks for the responses.

Bruce Leland

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Re: Photo tour of the Quarry at Giants Ridge
« Reply #20 on: September 27, 2008, 07:39:02 PM »
It's a very walkable golf course but other than the high school kids who play a great two day tournament there each Spring, I'm not sure how much walking the resort stay and play guests do.  I walked it in a State Am qualifier several years ago and it's a fine walk.  A great variety of holes. 
"The mystique of Muirfield lingers on. So does the memory of Carnoustie's foreboding. So does the scenic wonder of Turnberry and the haunting incredibility of Prestwick, and the pleasant deception of Troon. But put them altogether and St. Andrew's can play their low ball for atmosphere." Dan Jenkins

Jon Heise

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Re: Photo tour of the Quarry at Giants Ridge
« Reply #21 on: September 27, 2008, 08:30:49 PM »
Now that's a nice looking course!  If I ever get out to Minny, this is one I'd like to play. 
I still like Greywalls better.

Sean_A

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Re: Photo tour of the Quarry at Giants Ridge
« Reply #22 on: September 29, 2008, 03:32:13 AM »
Jeff

This course looks like it has all kinds of stuff going on!  Did you consider the site good or was it difficult to work in your concepts.  The terrain looks to be quite severe in places. 

I really like concept of this hole.  I am curious why you have two bunkers out on the right.  The idea of the little one is intriguing, but I am not sure about the big one.  Tell me what it is that you were looking for here.


I can't quite make out where the flag is and hence the green is obvious.  I assume it isn't too far behind the bunker which looks excellent.


This is awesome stuff.  It makes me wonder why you didn't incorporate more of this type of thing and less bunkering.  The site looks prime for mucking with the land to create interest & challenge.


A very cool one shotter!  Who would have thought it possible from a chap who supports the Stars?


Here is a case in point about about modern VS old time bunkering.  Looking back at the New Zealand pix Simpson didn't seem afraid to hide bunkers in a tongue of rough whereas yours is easily (presumably on purpose) spotted.


Here is an example from New Zealand's 6th.  There is a decent sized bunker hidden in the left of part of the tongu cutting in on the right.


This is the hole which made me really look.  I love how the lake shapes the hole, but in a way which seems limitless.  One question, why didn't you choose to use a bit bigger centreline bunker in what looks to be a decent size dip and just eliminate the left bunker in favour of a grass hollow.  I think the focus of attention would have been more drawn to make the carry and enjoy the scenery.  Of course, your idea may have been to get guys looking left.  Talk to me!


Overall, I think the course looks wonderful.  Why hasn't there been more talk about this place?  Is it just the MN factor?

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Jeff_Brauer

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Re: Photo tour of the Quarry at Giants Ridge
« Reply #23 on: September 29, 2008, 09:25:14 AM »
Sean,

I will try to answer your questions in order:

Photo 1 - That's the 5th hole.  The first bunkers are at what was the "normal" 265-285 range.  After seeing the distances some players were hitting test shots I added a back tee and then that pot bunker (the last two on 14fw were similar) near the end so there would be challenge for long hitters.

Photo 2 - I don't see the flag either, but it can be partially hidden behind the bunker.  The green was originally supposed to be up to the left, on top of the bank, but that turned out to be a peat deposit created from trenching to find more sand.  I fell in and got stuck several hours well before construction in this area!  The bank on the left was left from mining ops and we fit the green to the base of it.

Photo 3 - The small pond to the left had a trestle. It was apparently the clean out pond for the rail cars.  There were also fuel tanks.  The bank behind the green was an entry road for trucks, which were used after rail service stopped.  Other rail remnants (which I wanted to keep more of) were old tracks leading to that trestle across 1 fw.  Also, the grass bunker behind 18 green was a rail siding for equipment loading.

The fw contouring was covering, while it doesn't show as well in every photo, most fw have more contouring than average.

Photo 4 - We called this the "site that kept on giving."  Those rocks in the waste areas weren't visible at first, having been covered by blowing sand.  It was  simple matter to uncover them and place the green on top of an old mining ledge.  It was inspired somewhat by a Palmer green at Decon's Lodge. At least, I went over there to play once, and recognized that their long reverse r shaped green was similar to what I was noodling on for this site.  This actually was one of the last holes in the routing.

Photo 5 - Yeah, I like my bunkers easily spotted.  The first grass bunker was an existing bank from sand quarrying.  the first sand bunker sits atop what was a sunken road into the middle of the site.  Since the valley was blind, I put the bunker on top to kind of mark it, and provide an aiming point for those who play right of the carry grass bunker.

Photo 7 - The small pot was another last minute add, this time for the shorter hitter.  Not sure how the exact size came about, but it just seemed right to keep it smaller since it can affect average play.  The club pro can easily carry the second one, so it needs to stay to stop most of us from the short cut, or provide challenge.  Some people question it naturally, since a decent, but thin tee shot can get bunkered.  I predict it will probably be removed someday by someone without asking me......

The lake does provide a nice back drop, doesn't it?  I was looking for a way to get it more into play, and at one time, this was routed as a finishing par 3.   The owner wasn't buying that idea!  Also, that far bank had my original proposed no. 1 and 2 holes.  We were originally going to have nine holes each side of the road.  However, that area was a locomotive facitlity, with lots of oil cleanup - and under federal law, no limit to potential costs to the Owner, so we abandoned that edge of the property.  It worked out well - by making it more compact it turned into a better walking course.

So many questions for a Detroit Red Wings Fan!

Hope the answers aren't too boring.  I figure someone might like to hear some thoughts going through a gca mind.  (yes, we do have some....)

As to talk, it gets a lot regionally, and some nationally.  GD and Golf both have it in their Top 100 public lists.  Brad Klien is not a fan, but may be one moreso now that he sees they are burning down the tall fescues around the bunkers!

Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Shane Wright

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Re: Photo tour of the Quarry at Giants Ridge
« Reply #24 on: September 29, 2008, 10:07:11 AM »
Shane,

Yes, 15 gets the most critiques on the course.  The grading plans proposed a speed slot left and level spot right.  My thought was you could go home and say you hit a 454 yard par 4 with driver and wedge.  But as I looked at it in the field, I was afraid of the potential erosion problems of tearing out the natural veggies on that steep slope.  I also couldn't envision grading the speed slot so that balls wouldn't end up in that little jurisdictional wetland.  So, I went with the "Flynn style interupted fw".

If you look at the aerials, you can see potential for new back tees, either on the mound left of the original tees or even back across the cart path behind 10 green (or both) which I have suggested.  For top players, I think they would also benefit from adding back tees on 2 to allow a long driver to bust it right up to the edge of the pit and 8, to keep the cart path out of play.  If the carry on 16 gets too easy in the future, there is also room behind the existing tee to expand that one back.  7200 yards, and 4 years old, and we are already thinking about expanding it!  Ouch.

Bruce,

I might agree the 15th is severe for a near 200 yard approach but 16 for a reachable par 5 is too severe?  Which are you referring to there?

Jeff,

I totally understand the potential erosion problems you are referring to.  It is a part of the natural landscape of the hole.  I think 15 is more of a hole you have to play a few times to know exactly what and where to hit off the tee...but like I said, I think it is the only semi-weak shot on the course.  The rest is fabulous.  And I don't really think you need to extend the tees on 2.  Maybe for Bubba Watson, but nothing wrong with making him use a little finesse off the tee.  I think a drive of 280-310 down the right sets up quite possibly my favorite shot on the course.  It looks very intimidating, but the price you pay for getting greedy for a potential eagle or easiER birdie assuming you hit the shot you want.  2 is probably my favorite hole on the course.