Is a pine straw circle under a broadleaved tree..

[paul cowley]

Martin my friend....The South East US is naturally blanketed with longleaf, slash and loblolly pines that drop volumes of good quality needles annually as a very renewable resource. In urban areas they need to be raked up and disposed of and when applied as a mulch they are excellent for weed control and help keep the moisture in the ground. Using this debris as mulch is preferable to burning them or taking to a landfill.

The SE is also one of the worlds premier timber producing regions with millions of acres of pines planted in pine plantations...... there is a whole industry that has evolved with the use of mechanical balers that harvest the newly fallen needles to recycle to home owners and businesses.
Removing this fuel load also helps prevent forest fire loss......something that is a common occurrence in these parts.

Much of the time pinestraw is applied to cover the sparse grass and exposed dirt that is common to the low light conditions found along the wooded periphery that exists on many of our golf courses in this region, and it helps improve playing conditions in the secondary rough.

Lastly, pines and hardwoods are the natural mix of the forests of the region and finding pine needles under hardwoods is a natural occurance and a normal condition found in the woods.

What do y'all use for mulch in the UK.....coal?

[JLahrman]

Kalen

An old motor-car on Grannie Clark's Wynd at TOC circa 1902. Expect that is what you meant? 

What is up with the two guys arm-in-arm on the right?  Did Oscar Wilde play golf?

[Thomas MacWood]

What does Old Tom have in his right hand? It looks like either a bottle or a revolver. He may be preparing to shoot whatever is on that woman's head.

[Melvyn Morrow]

Tom

That’s a book on all the courses he was involved with.

[Thomas MacWood]

Melvyn
Wouldn't he need a larger vehicle?

[Tom Yost]

Notice in the photo that all the fellas are leering at the fetching lass.  I assume she was the beverage cart girl.

[John Moore II]

Pat Mucci-I can agree with the maintenance practices as a reason for having the needles around the trees. But I can also agree with others in saying that pine needles around an oak tree looks odd. We actually used native grasses to provide buffers around trees and in large open areas to reduce maintenance.

[Patrick_Mucci]

JKM,

On a golf course laden with Pines and other trees, would you have pine straw for the pines and other materials for the non-pines ?

Don't you think a consistent or uniform look is preferable ?

[Steve Okula]

Notice in the photo that all the fellas are leering at the fetching lass.  I assume she was the beverage cart girl.

All the fellas except the previously mentioned two arm-in-arm.

[Marty Bonnar]

JKM,

On a golf course laden with Pines and other trees, would you have pine straw for the pines and other materials for the non-pines ?

Don't you think a consistent or uniform look is preferable ?

Patrick,
yes to your first statement. No, to your second.
Pine straw under the pines, mulched bark from the arisings of local tree surgery under the others.
From a purely arboricultural perspective, some trees don't like acidic soil conditions. I'd guess pine straw is a tad acidic.
Pity the poor trees (unless of course you're acually TRYING to kill them)
Copper nails are waaaaaay more effective on that front...

FBD.

[Melvyn Morrow]

Steve

My understanding is that the two guys are from The USA. It would seem that they wanted to learn about golf, so like most Americans decided to take a trip to the Home of Golf. Bill no reflection on you.

The knowledge that most Scotsman wear kilts may have confused these guys from across the pond. Apparently they were looking for the Gay Gordons, not realising that was a dance. Also they mistook Céilidhs for a gay pub. In short I believe they did not achieve their aims and returned to Alaska unsatisfied and disappointed. 

Although I think they took the idea back and that was how the Golf cart got started in America.

As always there is a warm welcome to all at the Home of Golf 

[Marty Bonnar]

Gents,
'pine straw' and 'broadleaved' are not and never were meant to be construed as some kind of dodgy dubious double-entendres for the act of the making of the beast with two backs or for the practices of those who bat for the other side.

Please keep it to agronomy, arboriculture, alliteration, assonance and asininity.

On the other hand, I am also very proud to present the 2008 HAY (Huckabian Audible Yuks) Award to one Melvyn Morrow for the Post which has made me laugh out loudest. Brilliant, just brilliant!

 
FBD.

[Patrick_Mucci]

JKM,

On a golf course laden with Pines and other trees, would you have pine straw for the pines and other materials for the non-pines ?

Don't you think a consistent or uniform look is preferable ?

Patrick,
yes to your first statement. No, to your second.

Pine straw under the pines, mulched bark from the arisings of local tree surgery under the others.

What tree surgery ?

Are you familiar with any courses that cut trees and then produce ENOUGH mulch to provide adequate ground cover for ALL of the non-pines on the golf course ?

Could you name the courses that do this ?

From a purely arboricultural perspective, some trees don't like acidic soil conditions. I'd guess pine straw is a tad acidic.

Many courses control or balance the soil PH through their irrigation systems.

To my knowledge Pine Straw has never caused a substantive change in the PH of the soil.
Do you know of ONE club where that has happened or were you just guessing ?

Pity the poor trees (unless of course you're acually TRYING to kill them)
Copper nails are waaaaaay more effective on that front...

Creating a visual buffer to avoid damage to the trees isn't trying to kill them, as you incorrectly imply.

[Marty Bonnar]

Patrick,
why aren't you a golf course architect?
best,
MB.

[paul cowley]

Hardwood trees tolerate pine straw because that is the normal forest litter mix of South East forests as opposed to the needle only forest floors found in the mature groves of Northern hemlocks or redwoods on the West Coast.....both of which grow in a relative monoculture....and are referred to as groves as a consequence.

One thing that will kill hardwoods and any other plants is improperly aged hardwood bark that leaches high levels of tannic acid....that will tan your hide too if your're not carefull. Hardwoods are acidic too, not just pines.

I'm not really sure whats got your kilt in such a wad Martin, but there is no horticultural impropriety with using pine straw as a mulch in the SE.....did you see a picture of a oak mulched with pinestraw in a circle in an individual landscaped situation that pisses you?

ANGC uses pinestraw in large areas under its pines quite effectively....and around its hardwoods and other plants that exist in these areas as well.

It would look rather silly switching mulch types around different plants according to what type of mulch each plant produces.....and I think you know that.

[John Moore II]

JKM,

On a golf course laden with Pines and other trees, would you have pine straw for the pines and other materials for the non-pines ?

Don't you think a consistent or uniform look is preferable ?

No, I wouldn't use other materials for non-pine trees. That would be silly. But it still looks odd to see pine straw under an oak tree.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Patrick,
why aren't you a golf course architect?
best,
MB.

I don't know, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last week.

[Patrick_Mucci]

JKM,

On a golf course laden with Pines and other trees, would you have pine straw for the pines and other materials for the non-pines ?

Don't you think a consistent or uniform look is preferable ?

No, I wouldn't use other materials for non-pine trees. That would be silly. But it still looks odd to see pine straw under an oak tree.

I think you have to weigh "form" versus "function".

I believe that function serves a club better in this area than form.

[John Moore II]

JKM,

On a golf course laden with Pines and other trees, would you have pine straw for the pines and other materials for the non-pines ?

Don't you think a consistent or uniform look is preferable ?

No, I wouldn't use other materials for non-pine trees. That would be silly. But it still looks odd to see pine straw under an oak tree.

I think you have to weigh "form" versus "function".

I believe that function serves a club better in this area than form.

Agreed. Function is more important than form. It still looks wierd. Wouldn't it look wierd to you if you saw pine straw under a random oak tree?

[paul cowley]

....in the woods or in a parking lot landscape?

[Marty Bonnar]

see, all I'm saying is:

"In discussing the need for simplicity of design, the chief object of every golf course architect worth his salt is to imitate the beauties of nature so closely as to make his work indistinguishable from nature itself."

Pine needles don't fall from broadleaves. It's only a thought.

FBD.

[Mike_Young]

Whle you guys are bitching about this pinestraw circle stuff....the main problem I see here in the south is where the pinestraw or mulch touches the cut sod line that was necessary inorder to create the pinestraw/mulch area.  If you ball lands next to this sod line it is often unplayable.....or you can break a wrist trying

[Patrick_Mucci]

JKM,

On a golf course laden with Pines and other trees, would you have pine straw for the pines and other materials for the non-pines ?

Don't you think a consistent or uniform look is preferable ?

No, I wouldn't use other materials for non-pine trees. That would be silly. But it still looks odd to see pine straw under an oak tree.

I think you have to weigh "form" versus "function".

I believe that function serves a club better in this area than form.

Agreed. Function is more important than form. It still looks wierd. Wouldn't it look wierd to you if you saw pine straw under a random oak tree?

Better pine straw than my golf ball.

[John Moore II]

JKM,

On a golf course laden with Pines and other trees, would you have pine straw for the pines and other materials for the non-pines ?

Don't you think a consistent or uniform look is preferable ?

No, I wouldn't use other materials for non-pine trees. That would be silly. But it still looks odd to see pine straw under an oak tree.

I think you have to weigh "form" versus "function".

I believe that function serves a club better in this area than form.

Agreed. Function is more important than form. It still looks wierd. Wouldn't it look wierd to you if you saw pine straw under a random oak tree?

Better pine straw than my golf ball.

But what if your golf ball ends up still under the oak tree, onto of the pine straw?

[Patrick_Mucci]

JKM,

On a golf course laden with Pines and other trees, would you have pine straw for the pines and other materials for the non-pines ?

Don't you think a consistent or uniform look is preferable ?

No, I wouldn't use other materials for non-pine trees. That would be silly. But it still looks odd to see pine straw under an oak tree.

I think you have to weigh "form" versus "function".

I believe that function serves a club better in this area than form.

Agreed. Function is more important than form. It still looks wierd. Wouldn't it look wierd to you if you saw pine straw under a random oak tree?

Better pine straw than my golf ball.

But what if your golf ball ends up still under the oak tree, onto of the pine straw?

I happen to like that lie.

I find that you can either sweep or hit down on the ball with a good deal of success.

While I'd rather be in the fairway, I'd rather be on pine straw than in the rough.