[Jeff_Brauer]

If short game includes putting, then short game.  There are literally a thousand guys out there who could match most of the tour pros tee to green.  Very few can putt like the pros.

My son, who got a golf scholarship is a good example.  He can hit 16 greens per round, be within 15 feet on a half of those, and maybe shoot a 67-9 everyonce in a while, while averaging 71.  With those 8 birdie chances, the pros would have at least 4 birdies and maybe 6.  He gets 2-3 which just barely offsets his bogeys.  Lots of guys have the talent to get to that level, but not those last few strokes off the score.

[Pat Burke]

Keeping in mind that I was not a top tier player, I survived in professional golf for about 15 years due to the fact that I controlled the ball very well.  Grew up "old school" on an old course in NJ, and was equally comfortable shaping shots both directions at almost any time of a tournament.  Typically, if it got windy, I would have a pretty good week (which partially explains my higher level of success in Australia...wind and great golf course to play in the wind).
Every guy that played for any amount of time, did seem to have some type of extra "gift".  Loren Roberts..putter and course management patience to wait for the putter.   Daly  enormous length and a under rated short game.  Faxon...mental toughness and putting.   
Perhaps the one common "gift" that I saw, was a drive to improve.  Everybody was working at some part of their game or another.
In regards to Charles III , He is definitely beyond a good young man.  I would hesitate to call him avg as one the best in the world, but have only heard from second hand conversations that his distance with irons is pretty enormous (2-3 clubs longer than the current, fat me) and he sometimes struggles to dial a distance in.  Distance control is pretty phenomenal with the top tier.

[Jeff Fortson]

Belief and a creative mind.


Jeff F.

[Kenny Baer]

The difference between a 0-2 index and a pro is talent; the difference between the 0-+1.5 and the pro is practice and mental toughness. 

I think there are multiple questions being asked but the main one being what makes them so good, anybody making money by playing golf is SOoooo good, what makes them that way is talent.  On a driving range you probably could not tell the difference between Tiger and a mini tour player or even a top notch college player.

I remember hitting balls next to Larry Nelson and he hit 8 irons to a green 150 yds away for 30-45 minutes; he was alternating 1 shot 3 yd fade and next shot 3 yd draw, he didn't miss one shot the entire time.  It was like it was a video game and he had mastered it.  I also hit balls next to a UGA player and it was basically the same thing. The difference between Larry Nelson, 3 time Major winner, and the UGA player had to be mental because on the range they were both PERFECT.

[Mike_Cirba]

Also, Ray Floyd was grinding and concentrating and not peering over into the next fairway wondering "I wonder how that tall chap is doing."

I'm also pretty sure he's not looking over and thinking to himself, "Is that hole the tall guy is playing the Eden or the Biarritz?"   

[Jeff_Brauer]

Yeah, but Ray might have been distracted by thoughts of whether his beloved Cubbies will finally win a WS in the 100th anniversary of their last win.

[JR Potts]

The difference between a 0-2 index and a pro is talent; the difference between the 0-+1.5 and the pro is practice and mental toughness. 

I totally disagree.  Think about what you are saying!  I would suggest altering your numbers a bit - seeing as, a zero falls into both categories.

On a driving range you probably could not tell the difference between Tiger and a mini tour player or even a top notch college player.

I really really really disagree.  Obviously you've never seen Tiger hit balls.

In my opinion, it is opportunity, luck, practice, experience and confidence....with the latter two being the most important.

[mike_beene]

What is so interesting is that it really is not clear.

[JohnV]

At the US Mid-Am Sean Knapp, who made the semi-finals, had the Milwaukee CC club champion as his caddie.  The Club champ was a 0 handicap, but knew he wasn't as good as the guys he was watching.  Knapp is a +4.6 right now.  The Club Champ asked Sean, what was the difference between a 0 and +4.6.  Sean said he practices his short game about 25 hours a week during the golf season.  The other guy said he couldn't commit to that.

Raw talent is required, but work ethic, proper practice and mental toughness are the most important things that separate the best from the rest.  Knowing how to save strokes is another thing that separates some of the top players.  Tiger makes pars when other pros make bogies and bogies when others make doubles.

I'm surprised none of you have mentioned technology yet.  Haven't you been drinking Geoff's Kool-Aid lately?

[John_Conley]

What is so interesting is that it really is not clear.

Gee Mike, do you suppose that's because the initial post isn't clear either?

Is the question why can some people get real good at golf or is it why are there professionals and does that alone make them better than players who haven't turned pro?  At some point he wonders why Charlie Howell hits it a long way.  Duh, clubhead speed.  Is that question how does Charles Howell develop the speed?  Seriously, there's no mystery here.

Some people are better than others at certain things.  To be good at something you need access/opportunity, talent, and a willingness to work very hard.  All Tour players have all three.

[Michael Whitaker]

The reason we can't play like the pros is because we have a LOFT problem...

                           Lack   Of   F***ing   Talent

[Jon Wiggett]

I agree with Jordan's list but I would put it in a different order:

Talent
Short Game
Mental Game
Practice
Course Management

Agree that talent is hard to pick up through practice ... but so is the short game!

I agree with Tom's opinion that 'Talent' is the most important but define 'Talent' and what is 'Talent' in golf?

I would also add that starting at the right age and having the time to practice is also a must.

[jeffwarne]

I agree with Jordan's list but I would put it in a different order:

Talent
Short Game
Mental Game
Practice
Course Management

Agree that talent is hard to pick up through practice ... but so is the short game!

I agree with Tom's opinion that 'Talent' is the most important but define 'Talent' and what is 'Talent' in golf?

I would also add that starting at the right age and having the time to practice is also a must.

All very relevant comments, but assuming one has reasonable athleticism or talent, I'd say the #1 element is desire and discipline.
Starting at the right age is very helpful as the younger one is the more time they may have at their disposal.
All people have the time to practice (we all get 24 hours a day) it's a question of what we're willing to give up to create the time.
I've seen kids working full time jobs and going to school make the time for practice and others with nothing but time say they don't have time to practice.

At all but the highest levels, practice, dedication and attitude  are at least as important as talent.
At the highest level you need all four.

and if you can't putt, don't bother

[Michael]

Half a million golf balls hit

[Mark Smolens]

On a driving range you probably could not tell the difference between Tiger and a mini tour player or even a top notch college player.

I really really really disagree.  Obviously you've never seen Tiger hit balls.

Ryan could not be more correct.  Two years ago I caddied for a friend, a local club pro, in the practice rounds of the last Western Open (I didn't work the actual tournament for fear of screwing something up and having Billy criticized for the goof he had on the bag).  On Saturday afternoon I stopped at Cog on the way home from golf, drove in and used my caddy credential to go to the range.  I walked down toward the far end where Tiger was hitting balls, 250 yards away from everyone.  I sat on a bucket about 50' away from Tiger, Hank and Stevie (who glared at me every time he walked by to get another little bucket of balls).  I couldn't hear what they were saying, but things were clearly going well.  He hit balls that make a sound which was different from the other pros (like Kenny Perry and Davis Love, who we were hitting balls between on the range on Tuesday afternoon).  When he finally pulled out the driver, toward the end of the session, he was flying it past the barn on top of the hill, almost every time. . .  When he's closer to the other guys on the range, they stop and watch.  They don't do that for very many, and they certainly wouldn't do it for some kid on the UGA team.

[jeffwarne]

Half a million golf balls hit

If that were true several of my members would be on tour

[Ted Kramer]

While I don't think that there is one right answer . . .
I'd be shocked if talent wasn't the #1 factor.


-Ted

[Michael]

Half a million golf balls hit

If that were true several of my members would be on tour

 Sorry..I should have said half a million "Quality" golf balls hit

[Jon Wiggett]

I agree with Jordan's list but I would put it in a different order:

Talent
Short Game
Mental Game
Practice
Course Management

Agree that talent is hard to pick up through practice ... but so is the short game!

I agree with Tom's opinion that 'Talent' is the most important but define 'Talent' and what is 'Talent' in golf?

I would also add that starting at the right age and having the time to practice is also a must.

All very relevant comments, but assuming one has reasonable athleticism or talent, I'd say the #1 element is desire and discipline.
Starting at the right age is very helpful as the younger one is the more time they may have at their disposal.
All people have the time to practice (we all get 24 hours a day) it's a question of what we're willing to give up to create the time.
I've seen kids working full time jobs and going to school make the time for practice and others with nothing but time say they don't have time to practice.

At all but the highest levels, practice, dedication and attitude  are at least as important as talent.
At the highest level you need all four.

and if you can't putt, don't bother

Jeff,

the age thing is a major factor. Once you pass a certain age, somewhere between 18 and 25, you are never going to learn a movement requiring the speed precision of the golf swing to the same high level. The ability of concentration and dedication are also talents that are required.

The ability to hole putts is of course paramount at the top level, after all that is what makes the difference between good and bad scores.

[Kenny Baer]

The difference between a 0-2 index and a pro is talent; the difference between the 0-+1.5 and the pro is practice and mental toughness. 

I totally disagree.  Think about what you are saying!  I would suggest altering your numbers a bit - seeing as, a zero falls into both categories.

On a driving range you probably could not tell the difference between Tiger and a mini tour player or even a top notch college player.

I really really really disagree.  Obviously you've never seen Tiger hit balls.

In my opinion, it is opportunity, luck, practice, experience and confidence....with the latter two being the most important.

I have seen Tiger hit balls and play no less than 10X; I have seen him hit perfect 7 iron after perfect 7 iron on the range along with every other pro hitting perfect shot after perfect shot.  You can not tell the difference between his perfect 7 iron and every other pros.  I am not saying that he isn't more talented; he is but to the naked eye on a driving range you can't tell.  On the range they hit almost every shot perfect, the difference is mental.

[Mike_Young]

As Jeff says " if you can't putt, forget it"  true

Seems a few years back a guy that had grown up paying golf from a youngster could have limited athletic ability yet due to muscle memory and total focus he could become a good player and even play on tour....BUT today it is different....the guys coming out are athletes which adds a dimension that was not always there...
And yes, practice is huge, for instance, UGA practices at our course some and it is interesting to see a top junior player come into Athens with a set routine that he has had since a young age....probably never doing anything but golf....you throw girls in the equation for the first time...practice slows and you see a big difference(more powerful than the atomic bomb)....
BUT the one thing all the tour player have is an inate ability to GET THE BALL IN THE HOLE....all top ams and pros have it but these guys are the cream when it comes to that....

[jeffwarne]

....probably never doing anything but golf....you throw girls in the equation for the first time...practice slows and you see a big difference(more powerful than the atomic bomb)....
BUT the one thing all the tour player have is an inate ability to GET THE BALL IN THE HOLE....all top ams and pros have it but these guys are the cream when it comes to that....

Mike,
as someone who lived that firsthand at UGA....
 it's just really aiming for a different      (errrrrr.... target)

[Jim Sweeney]

It's not too hard for a person of average talent to earn a 10 handicap. It is twice as hard to get to a 5, twice as hard again to get to scratch, and twice as hard again to get to +5, which is about where one needs to be to even consider trying to qualify for the PGA Tour.

Talent, hard work, etc., all are inportant.

Yet there are lots of plus handicaps who have never even contended in their state amateurs and opens, and have no shot at playing professionally. Why?

They are students, or insurance men, or fathers, or whatever, and that is how they define themselves. Those that make playing golf a successful career define themselves as professional golfers. How many times have people on this forum decried the selfishness, egomaniacle attitudes of many tour players? Well, its no surprise, is it, that someone who excels playing this very difficult sport under very trying conditions using their own money to pay expenses with no guarentee of success are or become that way. And that some of them can't turn it off when they are away from their "office," unless that are with an insider- another player, a trusted media type, etc. Professional golf at that level demands self centeredness, at least on the course or at practice. And these days, the golfer as celebrity only magnifies the situation, what with all the attention focussed on them at all times.

Anyway, the answer in my book is: they define themselves and their lives that way.

[Ken Moum]

One of the things that's always fascinated me about the way amateurs view the pros is that all of the scratch and plus handicappers I know have no delusions about where they rank compared to the Tour pros.

They all say the difference is dramatic.

But there are lots of ~5 handicappers who think they could make it on Tour if they just had the time to practice.

My brother is a +1, and people have often asked him if he ever thought about the Tour. He always says something like, "I've played with those guys, and I'm not close to being good enough."

Ken

[Ted Kramer]

One of the things that's always fascinated me about the way amateurs view the pros is that all of the scratch and plus handicappers I know have no delusions about where they rank compared to the Tour pros.

They all say the difference is dramatic.

But there are lots of ~5 handicappers who think they could make it on Tour if they just had the time to practice.

My brother is a +1, and people have often asked him if he ever thought about the Tour. He always says something like, "I've played with those guys, and I'm not close to being doog enough."

Ken

Very well said.

-Ted

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