New Golf World Top 100 Britain & Ireland out

[Brian Phillips]

Woking is a much better course than the Red as is the Addington..

i'd go with this....

Does Woking not get a bad deal as it is quite short?

[Sean_A]

Chappers-

I hardly ever post anymore but I think Deal superior to Turnberry.. I'm not going to go into the merits of it hole by hole but as someone who has seen 60+ courses on this list, I think Deal and Sandwich are underrated.. Also, I like the European Club but it is way way too high as is Berkshire Red.  Woking is a much better course than the Red as is the Addington..

Then again, I'm a Deal homer..

Tuco

I too would take Deal over Turnberry in a heartbeat, but then I would take Pennard at least  6-4 out of 10 over Deal mainly because of Deal's confined routing.  

It is interesting that both Addington and Woking are your shoe ins over Red.  I do like both of these courses more than Red with Addington getting the pip on Woking and maybe the only inland course in GB&I I would place in the top 10, but I don't know if it is a shoe in decision.  

IMO, Sandwich is always way under-rated as I believe it is probably the best combination of championship golf and member play of any course in GB&I and therefore should be #1.  

Ciao

[Adrian_Stiff]

If you are in THIS top 100 list and I would probably go as far as saying it is the only list you need to be in, you can add £1,000,000 to the value of your course, that equates to about £3 on your green fee btw.
Also to get in the second 100 is pretty good and that attracts golfers and green fees, it is a commercial world and it is important.

heres the next 100, not in any order.
Archerfield (dirle) Archerfield (east lothian), Ardglass, Ashburnham, Ashridge, Ballybunion (cash), Banburgh Castle, Bearwood Lakes, Berkhmpstead, Blackmoor, Boat of Garten, Brocket Hall, Brora, Carden Park, Carlton House (Omera), Castlerock, Ceann Sibeal, Celtic Manor (2010), Connemarra, Crail, Crowborough, Delamere, Dooks, Downfield, Druids Heath, Dunbar, East Devon, East Sussex (west), Enniscrone, Fairhaven, Felixstowe Ferry, Forest of Arden, Forest Pines, Fota Island, Fraserburgh, Fulford, Glasgow Gailes, Gleneagles (Queens), Hanbury Manor, Hayling Island, Purdis heath, Irvine, Isle of Purbeck, K Club (Smurfit), Killarney (Killeen), Kilmarnock Barrasie, Kings Lynn, Knole Park, La Moye, Ladybank, Leven, Liphook, Littlestone, London Club (Hertigae), Luffenham Heath, Luffness, Lundin, Machynys, Monifieth, Montrose, Moortown, Murcar, Palmerstown, Panmure, Parkstone, Perranporth, Portmarnock Hotel, Portstewart, Princes (Shore & Dunes), Pyle & kenfig, Rennaissance, Royal Dublin, Royal Jersey, RND (Westward Ho), Royal Worlington, Saunton (West), Scotscraig, Seacroft, Seaton Carew, Sheringham, Shiskine, Skibo Castle, Slaley Hall, Southerndown, St Andrews (NEW), St Andrews Bay (Torrance), St Pierre, Stoke Park, The Buckinghamshire, The Grove, The Oxfordshire, The Players Club, The Roxburghe, The Wisley, Thurlestone, Trevose, Turnberry (Kintyre), West Lancs, Woburn (Duchess), Woodbridge.

[Paul_Turner]

That second 100 covers most of the missing courses, but they still miss plenty that are just as good.

Wonder what Ran makes of W Ho! in second 100 

[Noel Freeman]

Woking is a much better course than the Red as is the Addington..

i'd go with this....

Does Woking not get a bad deal as it is quite short?

woking has a new set of tees (the blacks) and is 6600 yards par 70.. stout for all but the plus handicaps

[Noel Freeman]

Chappers-

I hardly ever post anymore but I think Deal superior to Turnberry.. I'm not going to go into the merits of it hole by hole but as someone who has seen 60+ courses on this list, I think Deal and Sandwich are underrated.. Also, I like the European Club but it is way way too high as is Berkshire Red.  Woking is a much better course than the Red as is the Addington..

Then again, I'm a Deal homer..

Tuco

I too would take Deal over Turnberry in a heartbeat, but then I would take Pennard at least  6-4 out of 10 over Deal mainly because of Deal's confined routing.  

It is interesting that both Addington and Woking are your shoe ins over Red.  I do like both of these courses more than Red with Addington getting the pip on Woking and maybe the only inland course in GB&I I would place in the top 10, but I don't know if it is a shoe in decision.  

IMO, Sandwich is always way under-rated as I believe it is probably the best combination of championship golf and member play of any course in GB&I and therefore should be #1.  

Ciao

Sean- the big difference b/t Deal and Pennard is that we could have an Open Championship at Deal anytime.. not so sure you could say the same for Pennard..  There is not one indifferent shot at Deal (few if any) followed by another indifferent shot.. For me, there are a few holes at Pennard where I would argue the course sags a little..That said I've only been there for 1 full day (walking and then playing) with RT.

[Sean_A]

Chappers-

I hardly ever post anymore but I think Deal superior to Turnberry.. I'm not going to go into the merits of it hole by hole but as someone who has seen 60+ courses on this list, I think Deal and Sandwich are underrated.. Also, I like the European Club but it is way way too high as is Berkshire Red.  Woking is a much better course than the Red as is the Addington..

Then again, I'm a Deal homer..

Tuco

I too would take Deal over Turnberry in a heartbeat, but then I would take Pennard at least  6-4 out of 10 over Deal mainly because of Deal's confined routing.  

It is interesting that both Addington and Woking are your shoe ins over Red.  I do like both of these courses more than Red with Addington getting the pip on Woking and maybe the only inland course in GB&I I would place in the top 10, but I don't know if it is a shoe in decision.  

IMO, Sandwich is always way under-rated as I believe it is probably the best combination of championship golf and member play of any course in GB&I and therefore should be #1.  

Ciao

Sean- the big difference b/t Deal and Pennard is that we could have an Open Championship at Deal anytime.. not so sure you could say the same for Pennard..  There is not one indifferent shot at Deal (few if any) followed by another indifferent shot.. For me, there are a few holes at Pennard where I would argue the course sags a little..That said I've only been there for 1 full day (walking and then playing) with RT.

Tuco

Its true, Deal may be able to host an Open, but if thats the trump card, then gca is in trouble.  If I want to measure golfers I look at majors.  If I want to measure courses I look at the course, not what it can or cannot host.  IMO, Deal is restricted by its out and back  routing.  This in and of itself creates shots which are less than ideal.  That said, I do think Deal is a wonderful course, its just on the fringe of top 25 rather than top 10 like I believe Pennard is.  No worries though - almost everybody is closer to your opinion than mine.  Such is the fate of a guy who believes 100% in the land dictating the quality of a course.  Bottom line, Pennard is on a better piece of land.

Ciao

[Adrian_Stiff]

Pennard seems to generate mixed opinion amongst people. I think the nahsayers towards it probably rate the courses taking condition into account more so than others and Pennards conditioning is often not great although in a way it kind of adds to its charm. I have only just noticed Pennard does not even dent the 200 which seems very harsh. Westward Ho is another that suffers from the conditioning factor, I think it probably now belongs somewhere lower than 101, but not above Pennard.

[Sean_A]

Pennard seems to generate mixed opinion amongst people. I think the nahsayers towards it probably rate the courses taking condition into account more so than others and Pennards conditioning is often not great although in a way it kind of adds to its charm. I have only just noticed Pennard does not even dent the 200 which seems very harsh. Westward Ho is another that suffers from the conditioning factor, I think it probably now belongs somewhere lower than 101, but not above Pennard.

Adrian

I think you are right about conditioning, bit it is more than that.  Pennard is also short, has a lot of quirk that takes getting used to, lightly bunkered, usually windy and always f&f.  I don't think folks can take all of these elements terribly often.  To me, they are what make Pennard undoubtably great. 

I can never understand how a course like RND could get rated higher than Pennard - to me its not even close - 9-1 whitewash and the 1 is just for the sake of variety.  Though I like RND well enough and it may make my top 100.

Ciao 

[Mark Pearce]

The inclusion of Slaley Hall in the "Next 100" is absurd.  It probably isn't top 500.

[Ally Mcintosh]

OK, if Pennard is a big MISS from the top 200, what other ones do we have?

I'll mention one that has fallen about 100 places from 2 years ago and disappeared (when in theory, I'd expect it to be going up) - Queenwood

[Sean_A]

OK, if Pennard is a big MISS from the top 200, what other ones do we have?

I'll mention one that has fallen about 100 places from 2 years ago and disappeared (when in theory, I'd expect it to be going up) - Queenwood

How bout Beau Desert and Huntercombe not getting a mention?  Huge oversight.  Wallasey?  These are all comfortable top 100s.

I would also plug for Whittington Heath, Strandhill and Kington for top 200 and banging on the door of top 100.  WH is every bit the course Delamere Forest is and I don't see it that far below Little Aston. 

Finally, where the heck is West Cornwall & Conwy?   

Ciao

[Ed Tilley]

OK, if Pennard is a big MISS from the top 200, what other ones do we have?

I'll mention one that has fallen about 100 places from 2 years ago and disappeared (when in theory, I'd expect it to be going up) - Queenwood

Where the bl**dy hell is The Valley course at Portrush. That course is so staggeringly underrated it is untrue. It should be in the top 100 at least.

Plus, how is Enniscrone not in the top 100? Amazing.

[Paul_Turner]

A few that I like and think are as good or better than many in that 200 list: 

Brokenhurst Manor, Beaconsfield, Belvoir Park, Portrush Valley, Harborne, Camberley Heath,  Leckford, West Lancs,  Manchester, Blackwell

I haven't seen Prestbury or Stoneham but I'm sure these are easily good enough.

[Ian Andrew]

It continues to amaze me why Turnberry gets rated so highly 

Food for thought - what is the one course the professionals can join as members in that area - when most private clubs won't have them. Turnberry. I think you would find that to be a factor. It also sets up very well from the tee and is fairly straightforward to play.

I would take Prestwick over it any day of the week - but that's cause I love luck and chance more than most.

[Sean_A]

A few that I like and think are as good or better than many in that 200 list: 

Brokenhurst Manor, Beaconsfield, Belvoir Park, Portrush Valley, Harborne, Camberley Heath,  Leckford, West Lancs,  Manchester, Blackwell

I haven't seen Prestbury or Stoneham but I'm sure these are easily good enough.

Paul

That is a good shout with Stoneham. 

For myself, the bottom line is that so many of these top 200 courses are good, but not so good as to recommend going far out of the way to play.  For the most part, if you are in the area have a go or if some other better option falls through have a go.  Where I think Pennard, Huntercombe, Kington and Beau Desert are not quite the type of courses one builds a trip around, but they are easily worth a day's detour to see.  I spose this is why I think a list like this is only really good up to MAYBE 75 courses.  The rest are regional/local favourites of which any area has some. 

Ciao

[Adrian_Stiff]

OK, if Pennard is a big MISS from the top 200, what other ones do we have?

I'll mention one that has fallen about 100 places from 2 years ago and disappeared (when in theory, I'd expect it to be going up) - Queenwood

Ally- Strangely Queenwood has never made the top 100 GOLFWORLD list... the new edition lists a comprehensive last 25 years section. I think Queenwood may have been in another magazines 100 maybe.
Tenby and Killarney (Mahoneys) are two courses (there may be others) that have been in the top 100 but no longer even figure in the 200.
Sean - When you mention the sort of courses you do it just shows the strength even down to 300 (GB & I), there are loads more of great courses.

[Sean_A]

Adrian

Yes, I agree that listing all the contenders for the top 100 is more helpful for the avid golfer, but I am not buying that all of the top 100 are great courses or that there is anything close to 300 great courses in GB&I. 

I knew Tenby wasn't selected for top 100 (wrongly imo), but to be left out of the top 200 is incomprehensible.

Having said all that

Pennard
Tenby
Huntercombe
Wallasey
Beau Desert
Kington

is an overseas trip I would be delighted to take!

Ciao

[Ally Mcintosh]

OK, if Pennard is a big MISS from the top 200, what other ones do we have?

I'll mention one that has fallen about 100 places from 2 years ago and disappeared (when in theory, I'd expect it to be going up) - Queenwood

Ally- Strangely Queenwood has never made the top 100 GOLFWORLD list... the new edition lists a comprehensive last 25 years section. I think Queenwood may have been in another magazines 100 maybe.
Tenby and Killarney (Mahoneys) are two courses (there may be others) that have been in the top 100 but no longer even figure in the 200.
Sean - When you mention the sort of courses you do it just shows the strength even down to 300 (GB & I), there are loads more of great courses.

Adrian, I think Queenwood was 'one to watch' in 2002 or 2004 and then when they introduced the top 200 in 2006, it was up at around 110 maybe?

Do they ever use the original Killarney course?... Both Killeen and Mahony's Point are really just half a course unfortunately, aren't they?

Someone mentioned that Barassie wasn't there but it is under Kilmarnock Barassie...

[Adrian_Stiff]

OK, if Pennard is a big MISS from the top 200, what other ones do we have?

I'll mention one that has fallen about 100 places from 2 years ago and disappeared (when in theory, I'd expect it to be going up) - Queenwood

Ally- Strangely Queenwood has never made the top 100 GOLFWORLD list... the new edition lists a comprehensive last 25 years section. I think Queenwood may have been in another magazines 100 maybe.
Tenby and Killarney (Mahoneys) are two courses (there may be others) that have been in the top 100 but no longer even figure in the 200.
Sean - When you mention the sort of courses you do it just shows the strength even down to 300 (GB & I), there are loads more of great courses.

Adrian, I think Queenwood was 'one to watch' in 2002 or 2004 and then when they introduced the top 200 in 2006, it was up at around 110 maybe?

Do they ever use the original Killarney course?... Both Killeen and Mahony's Point are really just half a course unfortunately, aren't they?

Someone mentioned that Barassie wasn't there but it is under Kilmarnock Barassie...

Ally- yes you are probably right on Queenwoods top 200 in 2006. yes I think the 36 Killarney courses do comprise parts of the OLD, I dont know if the older layout can still be played. Kilmarnock barassie is ofcourse the same as Barassie, my mistake I just looked through the Beeeees and saw it not there. St Andrews Jubilee looks a glaring miss as well.

[David_Tepper]

Do Tain and/or Goslpie merit Top 200 consideration?

[Paul Nash]

OK, if Pennard is a big MISS from the top 200, what other ones do we have?

I'll mention one that has fallen about 100 places from 2 years ago and disappeared (when in theory, I'd expect it to be going up) - Queenwood

Not trying to be biased but I believe my home course at Bearwood Lakes is well worth being in the top 100 - as it is now in Golf Monthly and Top 100 website - I rate it the equal of many of the local heathland courses and still in my top 10 courses, having played many of the top-ranked inland courses. Indeed, I think it is a better course than Wentworth West! It is still the best parkland (non heathland or links) course that I have played - and it has been in generally superb condition throughout all the wet weather (hollow tining aside) and this is testament to all the drainage work that has been done in recent years. Biased, maybe, but still trying to be objective!

[Adrian_Stiff]

Adrian

Yes, I agree that listing all the contenders for the top 100 is more helpful for the avid golfer, but I am not buying that all of the top 100 are great courses or that there is anything close to 300 great courses in GB&I. 

I knew Tenby wasn't selected for top 100 (wrongly imo), but to be left out of the top 200 is incomprehensible.

Having said all that

Pennard
Tenby
Huntercombe
Wallsey
Beau Desert
Kington

is an overseas trip I would be delighted to take!

Ciao

I normally agree pretty much with you but I think Tenby, Huntercombe and Kington should miss the 200. Tenby is quite short now isn't it and significantly changed? Huntercombe I think would be solid in the next 100 but I dont see it better than many in that next 100 and Kington is a new one to me (introduced by pics by you) but probably just too quirky and short and I think length does play a big part in the selection process of how the panelists considered.
When I looked at the second 100 the only ones I looked at and questioned were courses that I just had virtually no knowledge of, Courses like Tandridge, Burnham Beeches, Calcot Park, St Andrews (Jubilee), Mere suprise me that they are not there, I am sure many of the newer ones like Bovey Castle (ex Manor House) will be dissapointed not to have made the top 200, very few have played all the courses but some of the newer ones simply miss out because of their history.

[Adrian_Stiff]

OK, if Pennard is a big MISS from the top 200, what other ones do we have?

I'll mention one that has fallen about 100 places from 2 years ago and disappeared (when in theory, I'd expect it to be going up) - Queenwood

Not trying to be biased but I believe my home course at Bearwood Lakes is well worth being in the top 100 - as it is now in Golf Monthly and Top 100 website - I rate it the equal of many of the local heathland courses and still in my top 10 courses, having played many of the top-ranked inland courses. Indeed, I think it is a better course than Wentworth West! It is still the best parkland (non heathland or links) course that I have played - and it has been in generally superb condition throughout all the wet weather (hollow tining aside) and this is testament to all the drainage work that has been done in recent years. Biased, maybe, but still trying to be objective!

Paul- I have a feeling Bearwood Lakes was number 101, GolfWorld say it narrowly missed out and there is a little piece and picture of it. I have heard plenty of good things about it from friends.

[Paul Nash]

The Players Club in the Top 200 and not Beau desert, Pennard and some of the ones already alluded to??!!! Someone must be taking a bung as this course is a waste of a farmers field!