‘You Must Cheer when Europe miss putts’ Please tell me he did not say that

[Brian Phillips]

Rich,

I have quit everything to do with alcohol even the loose women...he he

Quit last July and have not touched a drop since.

I agree that the crowds have been great this week.  I don't think that they have been any different to any other crowds over the years.

[Sean Leary]

Speaking of sportsmanship, what did everyone think of Sergios "almost drop" today on 6? Reminded me of DLIII at Oakland Hills. Or maybe not.

[Kalen Braley]

Sean,

I caught that situation...clearly looked like Sergio was trying to get away from one.  After Kim went down there and inserted some sanity into that rules official things finally got moving along...even as he walked away in disgust.

It looked like Sergio was doing a hokey pokey move by sticking his left foot way behind to try to get a drop.  Glad to see the right call prevailed in the end.

[Patrick_Mucci]

The cheering when Sergio missed a 3 foot putt was uncalled for, rude and unsportsman like.

It's just another example of boorish behavior that not only goes unaccounted for, but is ENCOURAGED.

To those defending these idiotic outbursts, ask yourself one question, would you cheer if your opponent missed a shot ?

[Rick Shefchik]

No, Patrick, never. I have actually been on the receiving end of an opponent cheering for my missed putt on the 18th hole, and I definitely considered it to be poor sportsmanship.

And yet, I also found it understandable.

I think that Azinger has been misunderstood in all of this. I believe what he was trying to say was that it is all right for fans to applaud at the conclusion of a hole when the U.S. has won because the Euros missed a putt. He did say that the Euros will cheer in this situation, and he further said, "They get it." He was complimenting the passion of the European fans, and trying to explain to the U.S. fans that they should encourage their team after a successful hole, as the European fans do, rather than sit on their hands and keep a respectful silence, as golf fans are universally taught to do when someone misses a putt. I believe he simply wanted to let U.S. fans know they were allowed to cheer for their team when the result of the hole was positive.

The way he expressed that opinion could certainly be construed as negative -- and Melvyn obviously took it that way -- but I think he was just trying to inject the same level of partisan support into the matches that the Euros have demonstrated for years. Azinger was very clear that he saw nothing wrong with the way European fans supported their team; he simply wanted his own partisans to know that it was all right to support the USA in the same way -- once the hole was completed.

Ryder Cup dynamics are so much different than ordinary match play scenarios. In a perfect world, there would be only respectful silence when a team loses a hole. Human emotions are difficult to bottle up, however, and as much as I disapproved of the expressed jubilation of that opponent who cheered when I missed a putt on the 18th hole, I truly believe he was emitting a spontaneous cheer for his team's good fortune rather than my own misfortune. He was caught up in the moment, and what he did didn't change the outcome of the match. My missing the putt changed the outcome. Such is life.

[Jeff Fortson]

Am I totally out of my mind or do I recall Euro fans for the last decade cheering every single missed putt by an American when the Ryder Cup was on Euro soil?  I can vividly recall cheers going up when Americans had everything from balls going into a water hazard to missed 2 footers.  I see no harm in cheering the good fortune of the Team you are rooting for.  I remember Davis Love missing a short putt on 18 in the singes matches of 1993 at the Belfry and the gallery went nuts.  They went nuts when Couples lost his match too.  I could probably do a YouTube search and find NUMEROUS examples of the Euro fans doing the same thing that is being complained about here against American fans.

Look, I am not trying to say whether or not it is good for the game but I will say that it has become standard practice by both the American and Euro fans, especially on home soil.  Please save the blind moral judgements for other topics.


Jeff F.

[Jeff Fortson]

Check this video out.  It clearly shows Faxon, Haas?, and Strange in 1995 at Oak Hill and they were getting "ooooohs" from the American crowd... but hang in there it gets better. 

Listen to the Euros in 1997 at Valderama.  Listen to the cheers when Leonard, Woods (the one he putted into the water), and Mickelson miss putts.  I hope those complaining about Americans cheering when the Europeans missed putts this week take a nice look and listen to this video. 

http://www.truveo.com/Missed-putts-cost-Team-USA/id/3706694057


Jeff F.

[Mark Pearce]

No, Patrick, never. I have actually been on the receiving end of an opponent cheering for my missed putt on the 18th hole, and I definitely considered it to be poor sportsmanship.

And yet, I also found it understandable.

I think that Azinger has been misunderstood in all of this. I believe what he was trying to say was that it is all right for fans to applaud at the conclusion of a hole when the U.S. has won because the Euros missed a putt. He did say that the Euros will cheer in this situation, and he further said, "They get it." He was complimenting the passion of the European fans, and trying to explain to the U.S. fans that they should encourage their team after a successful hole, as the European fans do, rather than sit on their hands and keep a respectful silence, as golf fans are universally taught to do when someone misses a putt. I believe he simply wanted to let U.S. fans know they were allowed to cheer for their team when the result of the hole was positive.

The way he expressed that opinion could certainly be construed as negative -- and Melvyn obviously took it that way -- but I think he was just trying to inject the same level of partisan support into the matches that the Euros have demonstrated for years. Azinger was very clear that he saw nothing wrong with the way European fans supported their team; he simply wanted his own partisans to know that it was all right to support the USA in the same way -- once the hole was completed.

Ryder Cup dynamics are so much different than ordinary match play scenarios. In a perfect world, there would be only respectful silence when a team loses a hole. Human emotions are difficult to bottle up, however, and as much as I disapproved of the expressed jubilation of that opponent who cheered when I missed a putt on the 18th hole, I truly believe he was emitting a spontaneous cheer for his team's good fortune rather than my own misfortune. He was caught up in the moment, and what he did didn't change the outcome of the match. My missing the putt changed the outcome. Such is life.

That sounds like a very reasonable theory.  I'm happy to buy it.

Jeff,

There's a difference between cheering for a won hole and cheering a bad shot when the hole is still being played.  However, I don't think that happened at Valhalla or the K Club.

[Ian_L]

Clearly it isn't just the Americans who cheer when the other team loses a hole.  I think it's a bit easier to point at one country than a continent and say "it's that American culture that's ruining the game of golf."

And is it really that bad that for one week people are really passionate about golf?  They're cheering for their team to win, not for the others to lose.  If it happens to be a missed putt rather than a holed one that makes the difference, so be it.  Do we really expect the crowd to stand solemnly after Jimenez misses a putt that gives the U.S. victory?  No.

I would agree that Boo's antics were a bit too much.

[Brian Phillips]

What I thought was very good from Bo and Azinger was that after Azinger spoke to him in the middle of one of the rounds to stop doing in between shots he did.  Bo only geed up the crowd after each hole which is fair enough.

Cheering after a hole is won is totally acceptable even if after an opponent has just missed a putt in my opinion.  While watching, I never wanted an American to miss a putt but I was pretty happy when they did...

[Jim Nugent]

I remember Davis Love missing a short putt on 18 in the singes matches of 1993 at the Belfry and the gallery went nuts. 

My memory is that Davis made that putt.  Could you be thinking of another year? 

[Mark Pearce]

Let's be clear about cheering for missed putts.  If a putt is missed and that decides the hole (or match) I (and I suspect most other posters) have no problem with cheering the winning of the hole (or match).  It's cheering a missed putt when the hole is still being played that's a problem.  Having said that, I'm not aware that that was a problem at Valhalla, indeed, as I've said above, I think the Valhalla crowd were fine and only Lee Westwood appears to differ.

[TEPaul]

I missed all the Ryder until yesterday.

But yesterday I sure did notice some of the American players waving their arms to pump up the crowd way more than I've ever seen before. Did Azinger encourage them to do that?

Is this really true that Azinger encouraged the crowd to clap when the Euros hit a bad shot?

I've always wondered about Azinger and his kind of "tough it out at all costs" attitude. This seems to not only prove that but to go far beyond it.

If Azinger via the press or on the course actually encouraged the American crowd to clap over poor shots of the Euros I've completely lost respect for Azinger---COMPLETELY, and I am really embarrassed for American golf!

Somebody should teach that guy one of the most endearing and one of the fundamental essences of the GAME of golf----what traditional competitive ETIQUETTE is all about!

I wasn't paying that much attention but in retrospect I don't believe I saw Kenny Perry doing any of that. If so, good for him, he proved himself yesterday in more ways than just good play!

[Chris Kane]

There was a huge cheer when Soren Hansen's approach to 17 airmailed the green and kicked away.  Absolutely classless.

I don't think its just an American thing though.

[Craig Sweet]

Generally I would agree...but for the Ryder Cup and how it has evolved, I say get over it and cheer....jeer....and cheer some  more!!!!   I love it that the crowd is into it enough to come out and watch and get involved....and I love that they bring this rowdy vibe to the matches....

[Matt_Sullivan]

As an impartial (Australian) observer, there is no doubt both Euros and Americans cheer at missed putts or shots by the opposing side. However, the real question is whether it is right for either Captain to encourage this. And surely it is not ...

[Sean_A]

As an impartial (Australian) observer, there is no doubt both Euros and Americans cheer at missed putts or shots by the opposing side. However, the real question is whether it is right for either Captain to encourage this. And surely it is not ...

Of course Matt is correct.  The captains should actively discourage this sort of behaviour.  And to be clear, I am not talking about applauding when someone wins a hole because the other missed a putt - that is fine in my book.  Folks are applauding a win.  I am decrying the idea of applauding when someone dumps one in the water or chunks a chip etc.  Applauding that sort of stuff is not on.  On the other hand, I hate it when Brits say "unlucky" in these sorts of cases.  It is such a pathetic attempt at sympathy - especially as luck rarely has anything to do with it.  I know this is almost an automatic response, but do others feel like telling the opponent to shove it when he says "unlucky"?

Ciao

[Mark Pearce]

As an impartial (Australian) observer, there is no doubt both Euros and Americans cheer at missed putts or shots by the opposing side. However, the real question is whether it is right for either Captain to encourage this. And surely it is not ...

Of course Matt is correct.  The captains should actively discourage this sort of behaviour.  And to be clear, I am not talking about applauding when someone wins a hole because the other missed a putt - that is fine in my book.  Folks are applauding a win.  I am decrying the idea of applauding when someone dumps one in the water or chunks a chip etc.  Applauding that sort of stuff is not on.  On the other hand, I hate it when Brits say "unlucky" in these sorts of cases.  It is such a pathetic attempt at sympathy - especially as luck rarely has anything to so with it.  I know this is almost an automatic response, but do others feel like telling the opponent to shove when he says "unlucky"?

Ciao

Oh yes, I despise my opponent (or partner) saying "unlucky" when I've hit a crap shot.

[Rich Goodale]

Bingo, Mark!

One of the finest gentlemen and playing companions on this board would be tongue-tied if the words "What a Pity!" were proscribed.....

Rich

[Dan_Callahan]

At least the dude in Kentucky covered himself in a sheet. That's a damn site better that the pudgy pale naked guys that see fit to streak the Open every year or two.

[JESII]

I think the most important part of Melvyn's initial post and his overall message with this thread is that there has to be a better way to do it.

Emotion and passion are what makes the event, but what's the point of replicating a football, or football  , environment on the golf course?

[Michael Wharton-Palmer]

Captain Azinger has always lacked a little class in my opinion.
The whole way he handles his feelings towards Faldo is never convincing.
I get the impression he is a little bitter and wears his heart on his sleeve.
Not a bad charcteristic just not desireable for a Ryder Cup captain, IF you want the event carried out in a civil manner.
Some of the crowds were unreasonable as they have been for the past several Ryder Cups...that is what it has become I'm afraid.

[Mike Hendren]

I can go three ways with this inevitable thread - either:

1.  I was behind the 3rd green Friday a.m. when Harrington pushed his tee shot way right down by the river.  When he approached the green some knucklehead shouted "nice shot Paddie!"  The perpetrator was quickly shamed by yours truly and the gallery and walked away sad.

or

2.  Let's face it:  we opened up and can and you boys don't like how it tasted one bit. 

or

3.  You have not right to complain until your fans learn how to dress (not merely the matador and leprechaun costumes) and don deodorant. 

The Zinger quoted Tony Blair, what more do you guys want?

All said in jest since I assume Melvyn merely forgot the smiley in his initial post.

Bogey

[Kalen Braley]

I think you can question some of Azingers tactics.  It didn't exactly thrill me either to see him standing up on his golf cart and whooping his hat around to get the crowd fired up.

BUT.....

- I don't think you can question his zeal, utter enthusiam, and 100% dedication to these matches.

- I don't think you can question his feverish desire to do everything possible to get his boys in position to make the matches competitive and even win.

- And I don't think anyone can question that his heart wasn't in the right place, especially given how the US has had thier asses handed to them the last two times out.

It was good to see this real geniune effort made as opposed to pairing up incompatible personalities like Woods and Mickleson and threatening to give em a boot up thier backside if they didn't like it.

[tlavin]

The cheering when Sergio missed a 3 foot putt was uncalled for, rude and unsportsman like.

It's just another example of boorish behavior that not only goes unaccounted for, but is ENCOURAGED.

To those defending these idiotic outbursts, ask yourself one question, would you cheer if your opponent missed a shot ?

There's no question that this is more of a problem on this side of the pond, especially when we're talking about golf.  Football is another matter...