[Jeff_Brauer]

Adam,

Wasn't that a hit movie with Helen Hunt and Mel Gibson - "What minimalists want?"  I guess until I get hit by lightning and hear their innermost thoughts, I should stay away from speaking for them.

For as much as many diss mounds here, its actually an interesting theoretical topic.  Both Nugent (Harborside) and myself come out of U of I.  Hideo Saskaki was there (I think with Nugent) and was famous in Land Arch circles for saying "The Land is Putty." Certainly some of that has filtered through to Dick, maybe Tim and myself.  There were other influences to the mounding era as well - both golf specific (spectator mounds, Scottish/Irish recreation desires, containment, shadow creation) and (I think) the desire to simply explore the outer limits of earthmoving capabilities. 

Chambers Bay is mounded everywhere, but well done.  Early examples like JN heap mounds have recieved less acclaim.  Many of my own mounds got built too artificially.  There are some theories as to how to avoid that, which I ignored early (the land, was after all, putty!) somewhat thinking that if I was going to move earth, I wanted people to know it. In other words, the visual composition could include scale, wow factor, etc.

Too much to post, but there were reasons so many gca's built so many mounds.  And that they were built is reason enough for so many gca's to look for a new look.

[Jim_Kennedy]

Phil,
I didn't take it that way.

It is somewhat hard to visualize the landing area on #9, the drop shot and the surrounding flora makes it look much, much smaller than it is, but there is about 40,000+ sq. ft. of landing area.

The second shot is much tighter, about a 30 yd. wide by  50 yd. long landing area. 

The offending willow tree fell some years back and was removed. The one that remains is well out of play.

What most of the better players do not like is the fact that you have to bend the ball around the corner of the dogleg if you want to hit a driver, as the pond (straightaway) is only 270 or so from the tips. You can take the driver over the trees on the inside corner of the dogleg, and if you find the proper line you'll be left with something less than 200 yds. in.   

[Kirk Gill]

"Goofy golf" is a derogatory term used by golfers and golf course aficianados to describe any design or set-up feature that they don't personally like, enjoy, or find to live up to their own personal standards of what a golf course ought to be like. By using a term like "goofy golf," whatever they are discussing is diminished, and made to sound as if whatever it is they don't like was a mistake.

[Michael Wharton-Palmer]

I think that Jeff's comprehensive list just about sums it up.
I know that in most of the events I play , the negative comments closing in on 'GOOFY GOLF' surround the lack of reward for good shots.

Not marginal shots but good ones.
I agree with Jeff that hitting a solid shot and ending up on the wrong side of a green does not constitute a good shot and as such punishment is justified.
Excessive undulations are my personal number one criteria for goofy golf, when greens have contours just for the simple task of making the hole excesivley tough....not good architechture in my opinion, anybody can trick up a putting surface and make it unputtable...that does not make you a good course designer.

[Kalen Braley]

Goofy golf is:

- Needing a perfect shot just to find the fairway
- Soggy frontal areas to a green on a long hole requiring a long approach shot
- Hitting Driver, wedge, 5 iron into a par 5 due to a poorly placed long carry hazard.
- 90 degree par 4 dogleg holes where a 250 yard straight shot is required to have any chance to go for the green.
- Low hanging branches near tee boxes where you can hardly take a back swing and the tee shot must be almost a worm burner to avoid branches on same tree.  (Yes this happened at Tilden Park in Berkely, CA)
- Having your ball plug in the fairway when its 90 degrees and hasn't rained for 3 months.
- Putting to a hole location that either goes in or runs a dozen or more feet away.
- Surrounding an elevated green with a sea of bunkers on a long par 4.

[Phil Benedict]

Another example of goofy Pete Dye golf for your consideration.  At the Irish Course at Whistling Straights I missed a fairway by a yard, but the ball was so far above my feet that I had no chance on the  next shot even though my drive was only slightly off line.

I know Dye's done some great work and he's a genius at getting into the heads of pros without resorting to absurd length, but some of his design in my experience is goofy. 

[Ken Moum]

Another example of goofy Pete Dye golf for your consideration.  At the Irish Course at Whistling Straights I missed a fairway by a yard, but the ball was so far above my feet that I had no chance on the  next shot even though my drive was only slightly off line.

If the ball was a yard off the fairway and in a water hazard, would you have felt the same emotion?

How about if it was in a palmetto?

I just played Osprey Ridge in Orlando, and had that happen too darned many times to make mehappy

[Jay Flemma]

Jim Engh's the Creek Course at Reynolds Plantation is goofy golf to me; without question.

The goofiest of all goofy golf is Wolf Creek GC in Mesquitte, NV.  Borderline unplayable but so unique you catch yourself looking around and say WTF, where am I.

No The Creek Club is not.  When were you there?  The only thing that's goofy about it is two trees.  What did you find goofy about it?  Those same things are probably the same things you'd revere across the pond...

I agree with greg murphy...perhaps teddy bear falls or...what's that canada course called again?  Furry creeek, that's it.  Furry creek is goofy golf.

According to Fuzzy Fezler, (or as my mom once misremembered, "Furry Fozler"), you should have seen the 9th at TR before he intervened!  it ouwld have been much tougher.

[Phil Benedict]

I probably would have cursed the fates but would be less likely to blame the architect.  The situation at the Irish Course was so artificial, although a water hazard can be artificial too.

[Tim Leahy]

"Goofy Golf" was a chain of miniature golf courses. Hence any course that is tricked up or like a miniature golf course was called "Goofy Golf". Most Trump courses fit the catagory.

[Ian_L]

- Low hanging branches near tee boxes where you can hardly take a back swing and the tee shot must be almost a worm burner to avoid branches on same tree.  (Yes this happened at Tilden Park in Berkely, CA)

Kalen, which hole are you thinking of?

[Kalen Braley]

Ian,

It was the back tee on the 12th hole.  Of course this was at least 10 years ago so I hope they fixed the problem since then. 

I recall having to move around on the tee box to ensure proper takeaway and then had to tee the ball far back in my stance to promote a low launch angle.

[Ian_L]

That's funny.  It's been cleared out since then.

[Paul Jones]

I would consider any par 3 blind shot (i.e. - Del Hole) a goofy hole - although I usually like them and find them fun to play.

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