[Matt_Ward]

Andy, et al:

Don't know how you feel about it -- but I would say among all the new public courses I've played this year -- the 1st at FMR is likely the best starting hole I've played to date.

Plenty of width but the approach shot has to be really exact. Like the idea that you can make a score of all types on the hole. Not a back breaking hole but one that doesn't give anything away without some real thought / execution to back it up.

[Andy Troeger]

Matt,
I agree the 1st is a very good hole, I really think the green is well done and will allow for a variety of pin placements. Left side spots would make the hole a birdie opportunity in the "bowl" whereas the back right pin is a fairly tough nut to crack.

I like the 1st at Chambers Bay better of public courses I've seen this year. It socks you in the mouth and says "welcome" in a way most openers do not do. The falloff to the left there is wonderfully done IMO and creates an element of fear off the bat.

The 1st at Red Sky Norman is good too, but I like 4MR's better.

[Matt_Ward]

Andy:

For those who have soured on Engh because of being too hands-on -- it will certainly be well worth their time to play FMR if they are in the area.

p.s. I do agree with you on the back right pin on #1. Really neat hole that gets you in the groove right away.

[Matt_Ward]

One of the really exciting holes at FMR -- there are plenty of them -- is the fun and intricate 9th hole.

Measuring 430 yards from the tips -- the 9th sports a blind tee shot to a landing area that is neatly divided into two sections.

When you arrive at the tee the hole starts from an elevated location. However, getting your site lines down is not an easy matter. Engh placed a directional marker at the top of a hill in the nearby distance. It's very easy -- as I and others did -- to think that the hole is really more to the right than it actually is.

The fairway is amply wide but the player must negotiate either around to the left or right two separate rough / sand type areas that also have rough grass thrown in to boot.

These areas need to be avoided. There are alleyways to the left or right of them and either one works well. The green is another delicious product of Engh brainpower. The far right section is quite demanding to access. There are different tiers and haphazard shots will simply roll further and further away.

Generally, this hole plays into the prevailing SW winds but the day I played the wind was coming from the reverse direction. Either wind direction makes for a hole that is fun to play.

Another reason why FMR is a layout that many on GAC need to see / play firsthand.

[Matt_Ward]

One thing that makes FMR so appealing to play is the sheer diversity of holes encountered. I've spoken about the demanding 9th hole -- but the hole that immediately precedes it is no slouch in the fun department.

The 8th at FMR is 353 yards and plays downhill. Engh invites -- practically BEGS you to throw caution to the wind and let her fly.

The hole has a few obstacles to handle. The downhill situation only serves to act as a speedway which will cause the ball to really takeoff after hitting the ground. If you don't start on the proper line a whole slew of issues can happen -- few of them good ones.

There is ample space to the left of the fairway but you are then left with a blind pitch to a green which will be angled in a manner that makes it harder to get close to the hole. Should you hit too far down the left side -- it maxes out at 303 yards you will face a truly demanding short itch. Go through the fairway and it's junk land -- comparable to the scrub encountered when off the fairway at PV.

Engh also provides a raised portion of the fairway -- it looks like a mini tidal wave. Players can go over it but the fairway area that lies beyond it is quite narrow as it feeds into the green. Engh has also included a right side containment mounding area and it's the only element appears to be a bit contrived. It really is there to help shots which veer off in that direction. A bit less pronouned would have worked better but it still is OK.

The target line for the green from the tee must go towards the right side. Even if you have sufficient distance and the proper line you must keep the ball on the green and there are falloffs to the front, side and most notably the rear. The range of options is remarkable for such a hole.

Another example that FMR provides the fun equation to the max.

[Andy Troeger]

Matt,
Of the two holes you mentioned most recently I prefer the 8th to the 9th (nothing wrong with the 9th, just more good stuff on the 8th). I can say that going left can lead to death very quickly. Get off the fairway over there and the shot looks do-able but proved otherwise for me. The right side is definitely the play with the mounding helping keep the ball on green grass. The greens on both holes make for interesting plays. The 8th is drivable for a long hitter and/or from the next set of tees up.

Granted, the fellow I played with drove the 9th (!!!) and made eagle. I don't think we played it at 423 as we were playing a combo set of tees. Still...that's impressive.

[Matt_Ward]

Andy:

That is impressive -- I hit a really good tee shot from the tips and had about 60 yards into the hole. The guy you were playing with should enter the ReMax Long Drive event!

I do agree with you on the 8th -- plenty of different variations. But, I like the blind tee shot dimension at the 9th -- you really need to know where to aim before firing.

The 8th shows how wonderful a short par-4 can play when placed in the seeting you find at FMR. Of all the holes I have played w Engh's name attached -- I see the par-4 8th at FMR to be one of his very best. I can't imagine the word boring ever applying to that hole.

[Doug Wright]

One thing that makes FMR so appealing to play is the sheer diversity of holes encountered. I've spoken about the demanding 9th hole -- but the hole that immediately precedes it is no slouch in the fun department.

The 8th at FMR is 353 yards and plays downhill. Engh invites -- practically BEGS you to throw caution to the wind and let her fly.

The hole has a few obstacles to handle. The downhill situation only serves to act as a speedway which will cause the ball to really takeoff after hitting the ground. If you don't start on the proper line a whole slew of issues can happen -- few of them good ones.

There is ample space to the left of the fairway but you are then left with a blind pitch to a green which will be angled in a manner that makes it harder to get close to the hole. Should you hit too far down the left side -- it maxes out at 303 yards you will face a truly demanding short itch. Go through the fairway and it's junk land -- comparable to the scrub encountered when off the fairway at PV.

Engh also provides a raised portion of the fairway -- it looks like a mini tidal wave. Players can go over it but the fairway area that lies beyond it is quite narrow as it feeds into the green. Engh has also included a right side containment mounding area and it's the only element appears to be a bit contrived. It really is there to help shots which veer off in that direction. A bit less pronouned would have worked better but it still is OK.

The target line for the green from the tee must go towards the right side. Even if you have sufficient distance and the proper line you must keep the ball on the green and there are falloffs to the front, side and most notably the rear. The range of options is remarkable for such a hole.

Another example that FMR provides the fun equation to the max.

Photos of the 8th hole at Four Mile Ranch. The knob on the right is very effective as it can (a) stop a tee shot and leave a blind second, (b) deflect a tee shot way left leaving a very tough blind pitch or (c) provide a turbo boost to the green. One might therefore say this feature unduly rewards the longer player; however, the longer player also needs to be fairly accurate to get the reward. 

[Matt_Ward]

Doug:

What's amazing from our time there -- was how the left side seems to be a safe place to go but if one hits it too far left or too close to the scrub junk area you are essentially blocked out with a blind shot and possibly even an unplayable lie if you get it too close to that area.

[Andy Troeger]

Matt,
Exactly. Left is decidedly NOT the place to go if one hits driver. I didn't think I was in that bad a spot off the tee, but made about a 7 by the time I beat the ball around the scrub for awhile. Its a great risk/reward situation as birdies can be made, but the risk is most definitely there. The proportion of grass to problems is reasonable to me.

[Kalen Braley]

This has turned into quite the homer thread for a couple of guys who don't claim to be homers..

[Doug Wright]

One of the really exciting holes at FMR -- there are plenty of them -- is the fun and intricate 9th hole.

Measuring 430 yards from the tips -- the 9th sports a blind tee shot to a landing area that is neatly divided into two sections.

When you arrive at the tee the hole starts from an elevated location. However, getting your site lines down is not an easy matter. Engh placed a directional marker at the top of a hill in the nearby distance. It's very easy -- as I and others did -- to think that the hole is really more to the right than it actually is.

The fairway is amply wide but the player must negotiate either around to the left or right two separate rough / sand type areas that also have rough grass thrown in to boot.

These areas need to be avoided. There are alleyways to the left or right of them and either one works well. The green is another delicious product of Engh brainpower. The far right section is quite demanding to access. There are different tiers and haphazard shots will simply roll further and further away.

Generally, this hole plays into the prevailing SW winds but the day I played the wind was coming from the reverse direction. Either wind direction makes for a hole that is fun to play.

Another reason why FMR is a layout that many on GAC need to see / play firsthand.

This is a photo of the 9th hole tee shot. it's partially blind with most of the landing area obscured by the hill. I'm not nearly as in love with this hole as Mr. Ward. The fairway is miles wide and the visual intimidation really should only come into play for the player the first time around. I thought the green was "OK" 

[Doug Wright]

This has turned into quite the homer thread for a couple of guys who don't claim to be homers..

Kalen I think Matt's still experiencing a Rocky Mountain High.   

[Andy Troeger]

This has turned into quite the homer thread for a couple of guys who don't claim to be homers..

Kalen I think Matt's still experiencing a Rocky Mountain High.   

I do like the golf course, not as much as Matt seems to, but enough to make sure he wasn't talking to himself with his many posts on the golf course 

[Matt_Ward]

Kalen:

Unfortunately, there are not many Engh fans on GCA when compared to the classic type folks such as Doak, C&C, Hanse, etc, etc. I have no idea how many -- if any -- Engh courses you have played and what your general impressions are of his work.

His work, at least the early ones, showed a capacity to overcome the limitations that Mother Nature had imposed upon the land (see Sanctuary in Sedalis, CO as a prime example).

However, being able to overcome Mother Nature is one thing - being able to bring forward holes that require a wide variety of shot differentiations and even subtle requirements is sometimes more difficult to achieve. Engh has clearly been able to impose his building skills to a variety of places but the work at Four Mile Ranch demonstrated for me a clear evolution in terms of what he did previously by keeping the good stuff and jettisoning the stuff that clearly was overkill.

Having no bunkers at all for FMR is actually a big time statement that bunkers are merely, for at least the better player, more of a set ornament rather than a bonafide hazard. Engh allowed the land at Canon City to be the winner and not clutter up the place with all sorts of distractions that would look as nothing more than forced creations.

As much as I like Lakota Canyon Ranch -- I see FMR carrying forward the fun element to another degree, while at the same time, minimizing the clear insertions of man's hand upon the site. A debate and discussion on those two courses would make for a lively exchange indeed.

Doug:

Your memory must be slipping -- the 9th green is well done too. If you can remember -- age can happen to certain people in this regard - the pin the day we played was set just above a fault line that separated the left and right sides. You also had a front section that could provide a vey demanding access point for those who missed to the right side with their approach.

I don't doubt the 9th green may not be the equal of the more unique 5th hole but it's not an easy target to hit -- especially if the wind came with the prevailing direction.

That Rocky Mountain high you talk about is something that makes me swoon with delight anytime I get to The Centennial State.

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Having played Engh's Pradera and Lakota Canyon during my last trip to Colorado, I look forward to playing Four Mile Ranch next summer. Here's a published review:

www.coloradoavidgolfer.com/colorado_golf_courses_four_mile_ranch

[Matt_Ward]

Steve:

Thanks for the link -- Jon Rizzi's review hits the mark quite well.

The thing that strikes me about FMR is how Engh made it a point to AVOID doing the same style of holes he has done previously. Unfortunately, too many time architects resort to using the same beliefs because clients were originally sold on them through past work. In addition, too many architects are like comedians -- they feel if they tell the same funny stories the amount of laughter will always register with the audience. The reality is quite different. What you laughed out loud about when first heard is no longer the same thing when repeated time after time after time.

Engh has demonstrated a niche in getting courses built on very severe sites. With that has come a strong penchant for making sure his hand is felt on so many of his holes. In a number of cases it works quite well and that can be seen clearly at Lakota Canyon Ranch. However, Engh does include some elements at Lakota which overplay his involvement and can overpower the nature of the course even when it's on a superior site -- I can think of his overshaping of such holes at the New Castle, CO layout with the likes of the par-3 9th and par-3 17th, to name just two examples there.

Engh said it best about FMR on why no bunkers -- they would be a "nuisance" - rather than a "nuance" is quite apt and dead on target.

No doubt Engh doesn't have the fan base here on GCA as others do but I find it refreshing when any architect makes it a point to evolve and carve out a unique and clearly different perspective on what design can be and how such charting of new ground can illuminate the potential for even more growth with future layouts.

FMR is well worth a play and I'll be interested in your comments after you play it. 

[Allan Long]

Just played FMR, and can't stop thinking about it. A roller-coaster ride from start to finish, you must have your thinking cap on right out of the gate. The green complexes are bold, and right on the first hole you notice that the prudent play around the greens is often not a play directly at the hole.

A couple of blind holes didn't really bother me, but it is a course that wisdom comes with multiple playings. A case in point is the par-5 15th. Although on the blind 6th and 14th holes you have a general idea where the green is, on #15 I had no idea where to go while standing in the fairway. I actually walked almost up to the green to find it, and was lucky enough that I picked the right target for my second shot. I almost ran to the green with anticipation of finding out how successful I was. I had no idea what awaited me, but I was surprised to see my ball four feet from the flag.

That being said, as much course knowledge as I think you can gain with multiple playings, if you get it going at FMR, a low score is out there, especially if you are coming in from the correct part of the fairway. There were a few times with some front pin placements that I had no chance to get it close, but that was more a function of where my approach shot was coming from rather than just an insidious hole location.

[Matt_Ward]

Allan:

Given what you wrote - how high would you rate FMR among all the public courses you have ever played ?

Thanks ...

[Tom_Doak]

Matt:

Thanks for your comments here.

As you know I have expressed some doubts about how you seem to consistently trumpet the next Jim Engh course as even greater than the last ... and your streak is still intact.  However, the pictures of this course seem to show a very different approach ... much better integration into the native terrain.

I had heard one early review of the course that was very negative, but after looking at the photos, I think I'm on your side this time.  [*EDIT:  turns out it was a different course that my friend dissed.]  I hope I have a chance to go see it for myself someday.

[Matt_Ward]

Tom:

Appreciate your understanding of my comments but I need to put forth a small correction on your base assumption that I have simply cheerleaded all Engh designs. That's not the case.

I have spelled out numerous times when I have seen a heavy hand approach to the usage of mounds and bowl-shaped features in his earlier efforts (e.g. Sanctuary, Redlands Mesa and to a lesser degree but still visible in spots at Pradera & Lakota Canyon Ranch, to name just four instances that come quickly to mind.

On the flip side Four Mile Ranch demonstrates to me a desire on Engh's part to see the past and make sure it's not repeated again and again with the same elements that are clearly out of character with the terrain itself.

Engh didn't include any bunkers at FMR and it works quite well The terrain / property works very well and Engh and his team have done a solid job in emphasizing ball position with one's approach shots throughout the round.

The green dimensions are very good and they are well contoured to emphasize shotmaking. 

The main plus for FRM is that it's fun for all types of players and it valus placement -- more than just mindless power. It's clearly a model for many architects to study because of that dimension. Couple that with attractive fees and you have a course many golfers should play when in the area.

[Tom Jefferson]

As an aside, would someone with knowledge of chime in on Engh's Harmony Club?
How good, how different, any distinctions or qualities worth mentioning?
Thanks. 

Tom

[Allan Long]

Allan:

Given what you wrote - how high would you rate FMR among all the public courses you have ever played ?

Thanks ...

Matt,

Off the top of my head, I would probably put it in the top 15-20% of public courses I have played.

[Matt_Ward]

Tom J:

Harmony is located near in Timnath (just outside Ft. Collins) and is on much tamer property than many Engh courses are usually located.

The start of the round is also rather low key -- not the wow factor that you get with a few of his other layouts.

The course does feature a few of the predictable Engh inclusions -- I really liked the first par-5 encountered there -- believe it's the 3rd hole at 640 yards. The tee shot is central because you have scattered fairway bunkers -- the real danger starts with the 2nd shot because there is a narrow channel opening prior to the green itself. This design element is similar to what Engh did with the 2nd at Pradera. You need to align your 2nd shot so that you have a 3rd shot which is both visible and within the preferred yardage you wish to play for your approach.

Engh follows that with a very strong par-4 at the 4th - you need to hug the left side because it provides the best angle to most pin locations.

The 6th is somewhat over-shaped by Engh but it serves its purpose well as a short par-4 hole. The gamble element is there and laying up is no sure thing.

The 7th is one of the best par-3 holes I have played from Engh's design hands. The green tries to emulate the famed Dell Hole at Lahinch. The green is extremely long -- 100 yards but it's angled and much of it is blind from the tee. When the pin is tucked hard left the hole can stretch from a basic 179 yards to as much as 230 yards in the full rear position.

The inner half is also nicely done -- a bit of elevation but as I said previously it's a far cry from what Engh has done at such places as Sanctuary, Pradera and Lakota Canyon Ranch.

The 11th is one of the better holes on the return nine. The cape-like tee shot invites big time disaster for those who get too bold.

Engh also modified his penchant for the rear tongue position concept that he has used numerous times for example like the 17th at Lakota Canyon Ranch and the 15th at Blackstone. Here the short par-12th at just 160  yards has a very playable but challenging rear area that pushes in from both sides and provides a very snug rear pin placement. The benefit is that his work at Harmony here is not as sharp with mounding as it is with the others I previously cited.

Of all the holes I didn't like it's the short par-4 13th. Engh confuses himself here with mindless bunkers that litter the landscape like fast food wrappers that sprawl outside a fast food restaurant. They are all over the place but have little real meaning. A less is more approach would have worked wonders -- the saving grace for the hole is the way the green is positioned below the fairway so that you need to really know it's location before making the approach.

Time doesn't permit me to go into total detail but the final five holes are well done -- you have two par-3's and two par-5's in the mix.

Harmony doesn't have the extreme sharp edges and much of that has to be attributed to the better consistency of the terrain Engh had to work with here. All in all, a very playable member's course with just enough teeth to bite those foolish enough to take risky plays that aren't backed up by solid execution. In all the Engh layouts I have played -- I would rate it among the top half of the ones I've had the opportunity to play.

If someone should venture to the immediate area the best doubleheader for golf would be a visit to Harmony followed by a round at Highland Meadows in nearby Windsor by Art Schaupeter -- well done public layout that is quite good and very affordable.

[Philippe Binette]

Did I once said I hated marketing...

To me all that talk about fun and ball position sounded like yeah whatever...

From the picture, I would just call the course (in a less is more philosophy) good golf architecture. The course looks interesting and has some really good design ideas (partial blindness, pin location that change the hole completely, sharp contours in the fairway) that breaks with the norm.

They don't need to give some Indiana Jones speech about it

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