[Sean_Tully]

Sean--

Based on my research on Fowler in CA I did not see any mention of Simpson tagging along. They only mention that they were partners. Fowler was quite busy in  CA during his visits in both SoCal and NorCal and if I recall correctly some  work back east as well.


1. O Club remodelling of present course (1921) and to build a seaside course and a par 3 course.  I guess Fowler lost this job.

He was in the running for the job and it looks like the scope of the project changed and they ended up going with Watson and Whiting.


5. Presidio was to get three new holes by Fowler (1920).

Yep, course acquired some more land and he made other changes as well.
also involved with the city on some changes at Lincoln Park along with William Watson and Harold Sampson.

Also during the 1920 trip Fowler drew up remodel plans for the Del Monte and Pebble Beach courses. Pebble was not even a year old at this point! He wanted to get rid of the 7th hole! and add a par three after the current 10th hole over a small ravine.


Tully

[Bill_McBride]

These look like pics of the same structure, though, yes?

Actually, Mark, these do not look like the same structure.  The top photo has a hip roof, the lower has gable roofs.  The top photo is of a one story building, the lower is two stories.

Regards,
Bill McBride (your building contractor buddy!) 

[Thomas MacWood]

Of Fowler's three trips, Simpson only came over on the first one in 1920.

[Mark Bourgeois]

Well, there you go, Bill.  That top picture house was called the "19th Hole." You can just make out a round sign off the right side of the building.  It reads "19."

Looking at the card again, those don't appear to be typos; the hole pars for each nine sum to 36.  I don't know much about routing, but does this look like something Fowler, Simpson or any other well-known architect would come up with?

5
3
5
3
3
3
5
4
5

5
4
4
4
5
4
4
3
3

Have you ever seen a course with 3 par 3s in a row, two par 5s in a row, and which closes out the round with two par 3s?

And a 340-yard par 3?!

Mark

[Mark Bourgeois]

Now for the rest of the story.

Shortly after the course opened, Rispin was thrown into bankruptcy.  The course and other unencumbered properties were purchased by his partner, Robert Hays Smith.  He put his son Nicol on the payroll as manager of the course.

The Smiths appeared in the society pages with some regularity; wife Susan for example appears in a short list of participants in an informal tournament held at Cypress Point November 1931.  Her name appears second to last, right before Marion Hollins.  Nicol Smith would gain local fame as an explorer (in press accounts he assumed a shorthand, career-encompassing sobriquet: "explorer-lecturer-author") -- and for marrying a Standard Oil heir in a Georgetown, DC, society wedding in 1938.  (Childless and essentially abandoned, Moira Archbold Smith would ask her husband for a divorce in 1952, and he would grant it.)

But even as the society page notices continued through the 1930s, Smith's financial difficulties mounted in 1933, the year of the most-severe banking crisis in national history.  Smith declared bankruptcy in 1936, forfeiting the Rispin Mansion, the star-crossed Monterey Bay Golf & Country Club, and a number of other properties.

At this point the Prescott family took over the course, adding golf to horseback riding, swimming and other outdoor activities available on offer at the Prescott Inn.  For the next six years the course belonged to the Prescott Inn.  Dale Barick, who won a Northern California championship, served as pro for a tenure of unknown duration during this period.

If the story of the owners of Monterey Bay was characterized by progressive financial diminishment, the course itself slowly was squeezed, too, victim of inexorable development.  According to Carolyn Swift, the Prescotts presided over a "smaller" course.

And then in 1942, they sold to a representative of the Rio Del Mar company, as reported in the March 18 Oakland Tribune:


Although Rio Del Mar had built a golf course as part of its development in the nearby community of Aptos, the company's uncertain intentions read ominous indeed for the future of the course.

The end came in the 1960s.  Monterey Bay Golf & Country Club is now Monterey Bay Heights.  Other than the clubhouses (one serves as a nursing home), the only hint a golf course once lived there can be found in the unintentionally ironic habit of developers to names streets after the very things they killed to develop: Fairway and Putter drives, Tee Street, Ball Drive.

And Hardin Way!

Mark

[Rich Goodale]

Great stuff, Mark, and don't forget that Capitola is a GREAT place to take one's kids for the day.

[Neil_Crafter]

Mark
A very interesting story you've outlined, with great contributions from a number of others. This sharing of research information so willingly with others is what represents the best of this DG. Well done. I can't add anything except to say the bunkering in the photos does not look too Fowler-like to me.

Sean A - here's an advert for Fowler, Abercromby, Simpson and Croome from The Scotsman of 6th July 1923 announcing the new firm

[Sean_A]

Mark
A very interesting story you've outlined, with great contributions from a number of others. This sharing of research information so willingly with others is what represents the best of this DG. Well done. I can't add anything except to say the bunkering in the photos does not look too Fowler-like to me.

Sean A - here's an advert for Fowler, Abercromby, Simpson and Croome from The Scotsman of 6th July 1923 announcing the new firm

Neil

Cheers.  The most interesting aspects of the announcement are:

1. The office located at Addington.

2. Aber listed second in the firm.

3. The implication that Aber & Croome were not designers per se, but more involved in construction & upkeep.

I am wondering about two things.  First, did this new partnership signal a slowing down by Fowler?  Could he have been more a name to garner business and have much more of a back seat in design & construction?  Fowler would have been in his mid 60s by then!  Second, could this presumed semi retirement/new partnership have "released" Simpson to do his work in Ireland, the continent, Scotland, etc?  I am curious if Fowler was merely a dabbler at this point and later and that perhaps he only got more heavily involved in an a few projects. 

Ciao

 

[Thomas MacWood]

Sean
I do think you're right, Fowler was slowing down around this time. Colt & Co. had just expanded a couple of years earlier, so this may have been a response to that. On the other hand none of these guys were spring chickens.

I don't get the impression A & C were not designers per se, though I do believe Croome was hired more or less as the secretary/pr guy. He was a journalist and to my knowledge he only designed one golf course (Liphook), although a very good one. Simpson had been involved in Europe prior to WWI, France in particular. Note the courses on the ad. I think that was his area of focus, and maybe Aber was going to pick up the slack in Britain.

I wonder how N.America fit into their plan. That was certainly a prime market that Alison was taking full advantage. Whatever the case none of these guys ever went back. I also wonder how Fowler looked upon his three visits to the States, a success or something less. Eastward Ho!, LACC & Ambassador Hotel were definitely the highlights, but I think it was definitely a mixed bag and perhaps not as fruitful as he hoped. The fact that they never went back may say something.

Did the trip to the US take something out of the old man?

[Sean_A]

Sean
I do think you're right, Fowler was slowing down around this time. Colt & Co. had just expanded a couple of years earlier, so this may have been a response to that. On the other hand none of these guys were spring chickens.

I don't get the impression A & C were not designers per se, though I do believe Croome was hired more or less as the secretary/pr guy. He was a journalist and to my knowledge he only designed one golf course (Liphook), although a very good one. Simpson had been involved in Europe prior to WWI, France in particular. Note the courses on the ad. I think that was his area of focus, and maybe Aber was going to pick up the slack in Britain.

I wonder how N.America fit into their plan. That was certainly a prime market that Alison was taking full advantage. Whatever the case none of these guys ever went back. I also wonder how Fowler looked upon his three visits to the States, a success or something less. Eastward Ho!, LACC & Ambassador Hotel were definitely the highlights, but I think it was definitely a mixed bag and perhaps not as fruitful as he hoped. The fact that they never went back may say something.

Did the trip to the US take something out of the old man?

Tommy Mac

You could be right about Simpson slipping off to Europe on occasion.  He seems to have worked with Fowler at times and not at other times.   

Aber couldn't have picked up much slack because I don't think he did much design at all.  His most famous work wasn't until Addington for which P Turner seems to think he should only get design in the field (during construction) credit.  Of course he is credited with Woplesdon, but that was before he was involved with Fowler. 

I have no evidence whatsoever, but I suspect Fowler made return trips on the basis of his success at Eastward Ho! and his ability to snatch work in California.  However, times may have passed him by as California architecture was moving in a very new direction and in many ways Fowler was old school - more a lay of the land chap compared to almost all of his contemporaries certainly fter the heathland revolution.  I think considering his age and perhaps his waning ambition, Fowler could be seen as a success if only for the design of Eastward Ho! 

What seems strange is that he had Simpson as a partner.  While Simpson wasn't in the same vain as the California folks, he did have a reputation for being bold and modern.  Perhaps Simpson wasn't interested in carrying on with work in USA.  I can't see Fowler being able to really work in the USA at his age especially as he (and neither did Simpson) really need the money.  On a further note, perhaps Simpson didn't really get down to business as he would really like until he formed his company in the late 20s.  Simpson seemed to be very much his own man. 

Ciao

[Thomas MacWood]

Sean
While I would agree Abercromby was not prolific, he was more active than is generally believed. I've been able to find 16 courses he did in England & the Continent, and I think there are more to be found. He was pretty busy from 1922 to 1925. Addington was a collaboration with Colt, but Aber still deserves credit.

I also wonder if Fowler's personality may have been an issue in the states and California.

I think Fowler and Simpson hung out in the same social circles; I believe that was their connection. Simpson was also a super talent, not only architecturally but artistically, which no doubt Fowler could appreciate.

[Sean_A]

Tommy Mac

What is odd about Aber is that I believe he was highly thought of.  Yet, even if 16 courses is his lot, that ain't may of at least a 25 year period.  Perhaps his love of Addington made it difficult to tear himself away from the place, hence the reason for newly formed F, A, S & C firm to set up shop at Addington? 

As I say, Fowler was old school in design and rules.  I think by the time the mid 20s came about he realized that he no longer had a hand on the torch.  The next generation of designers was clearly in charge with the exception of Dr Mac, the only guy who who successfully bridged the gap between generations while still at the forefront of design.  I spose a case could be made for Alison & Colt as well, but somehow, it seems to me that their influence was to be more important on the then current generation than their actual output.  Certainly, by 1930 their top work was mainly on the edges of golfing civilization in Japan and Europe while Dr Mac was in the thick of it. 

Ciao

[Thomas MacWood]

Sean
16 in twenty years is not bad, especially considering the interuption caused by the War. I think you are right about Addington, making him more or less a part timer.

Side note: Fowler doesn't get any credit for influencing Thomas for whatever reason.

I think Fowler A, S & C dropped the ball in America in the 1920s.

[Mark Bourgeois]

Neil, I agree, this very much was a team effort! Thanks for the initial push -- and well done, Tully, Tom, Bill, and Rich!

Who was S.C. Hardin? What else did he design and what else did the firm build?  Could anyone have come over from the Pasatiempo work site?   How unusual would it have been for two projects underway roughly concurrently and in the same locale to share machinery and / or labor?

Mark

PS Re Fowler's trip to California, I think we established a while back that Hunter's ridicule of an unnamed architect's practice of using plasticine was Fowler.  I also recall someone finding a recounting by Fowler of the transcon train trip being very productive -- because he was able to build models on the train!

[Sean_A]

Sean
16 in twenty years is not bad, especially considering the interuption caused by the War. I think you are right about Addington, making him more or less a part timer.

Side note: Fowler doesn't get any credit for influencing Thomas for whatever reason.

I think Fowler A, S & C dropped the ball in America in the 1920s.

Tommy Mac

Aber was at it more than 20 years.

I don't think Fowler & co dropped the ball so much as threw it away.  I can certainly see Fowler not really wanting to join the California bandwagon if it meant changing his methods - he was too old for that.  A few of the others were kicking on and had no real connection/experience in the States anyway.  Aber was in his 60s and Croome was approaching 60.  This leaves Simpson, the obvious guy to carry on in the States.  Now he may have been considered a bit of a freak and it may very well be that he had little interest in working in the States.  I think if he wanted to, Simpson would have made a bit of an effort to get work in the States.  Though, he could have been considered Fowler's boy and this may have been a bit of a liability as Fowler had a mixed bag rep in the States.  In any case, Simpson didn't need work in the States.  This in the end may be the difference between the successful transition (critically anyway) of Dr Mac to the States - a need for money (and perhaps props!), afterall, he was no young man himself.

Should Fowler get credit for influencing Thomas?


Mark

Wasn't there some thought that Simpson was the plasticine man?

Ciao  

[Thomas MacWood]

Mark
The name doesn't ring a bell. He wasn't associated with Pasatiempo as far as I can tell, at least not the pro or greenkeeper in 1930. Was he a landscape architect or city planner?

Fowler got the idea for plasticine models from Simpson, but he did them too. Fowler was also known to darn his socks on the train - obviously a multi-tasker.

Sean
I think it is possible he was influencial. Thomas was in charge of constructing the LACC courses for Fowler. Shortly after that GCT went into design.

[Mark Bourgeois]

Why did Simpson collaborate with Wethered and not Fowler? Was the book Wethered's idea?

Was SC Hardin Jeff Hardin's father?

Probably making the mistake of applying today's norms to yesterday's society here, but if you were desperate to use a golf course to sell lots, and all sorts of megaspectacular courses were being built all around you, and a star of design was in fact going at it right down the road, wouldn't you need a star yourself?

Possibilities:
1. Golf course architects were not used to market housing developments
2. No big names were available - and Rispin was desperate to get something in the ground
3. Hardin won Rispin over

Mark

[Thomas MacWood]

Yes. I think the book was Wethered's idea. I'm not sure Simpson & Fowler were partners at the time either.

[BCrosby]

Mark/Tom -

What was the extent of Fowler's work at Pebble? I understand he extended the 18th to make the hole we know today. Did he do more?

A.C.M. Croome is an interesting figure. He had his fingers in a lot of pies, only some of which involved gca. Did Croome ever work with Fowler or Simpson?

Bob

[Thomas MacWood]

Bob
In the Pebble Beach book that came out a couple years ago the author detailed a couple of other changes but I don't have access to the book.

I have read that Simpson (this comes from Simpson himself i believe) gave some minor assistance at Liphook but Croome deserves the bulk of the credit.

[BCrosby]

Tom -

Thanks. In addition to his design work, Croome seems to have been a sort of predecessor to Darwin as a golf journalist. He was about 15 years older than Darwin. He was apparently also a big track and cricket star in his younger days.

Bob

 

[Sean_Tully]

Mark/Tom -

What was the extent of Fowler's work at Pebble? I understand he extended the 18th to make the hole we know today. Did he do more?

A.C.M. Croome is an interesting figure. He had his fingers in a lot of pies, only some of which involved gca. Did Croome ever work with Fowler or Simpson?

Bob

Take a look at my post #25 where I mention some of his proposed changes. To add to that he drew up plans showing the existing bunkering of the course in black and the proposed additional bunkers in red and green. I am trying to figure out for sure who was responsible for turning the 18th into a par 5, Fowler or some golf officials.

Tully

[Tony_Muldoon]

I recently picked up a copy of The Errant Golfer by EP Leigh-Bennett about whom I know nothing.  Its little more than a collection of magazine articles published in (I think) 1929.  It's light on any hard facts but when he writes of a day at The Addington, I was very surprised to read "Now Captain Douglas Fish, the secretary, must be a gourmet, as well as a first rate player, because he is responsible for the best lunch of any golf club within fifty miles of London."

The relevance being of course, that I had always believed that to be Abercrombie's position.  Perhaps he stepped aside from the title while remaining on site getting the best of both worlds, giving him more time for other activities while checking things remained just as he wanted them at The Addington.

(I should add that the few facts the book contains are to the best of my knowledge spot on.)

Bob you weren’t joking about ACM Croombe - Googling him shows he was a true Edwardian sportsman.

[Paul_Turner]

Tommy Mac

You could be right about Simpson slipping off to Europe on occasion.  He seems to have worked with Fowler at times and not at other times.   

Aber couldn't have picked up much slack because I don't think he did much design at all.  His most famous work wasn't until Addington for which P Turner seems to think he should only get design in the field (during construction) credit.  Of course he is credited with Woplesdon, but that was before he was involved with Fowler. 

Sean

That's not quite right, CH  Alison wrote that Colt designed and Aber constructed Addington (I posted the article at the end of your Mackenzie scruples thread).   I'm not sure what to make of it.

What's interesting is that, in 1923, both "Colt and Co" and "Fowler, Abercomby, Simpson and Croome" are claiming Addington.

Croome is one gangly strange looking guy in all the drawings I've seen of him.

[Thomas MacWood]

http://www.la84foundation.org/SportsLibrary/GolfIllustrated/1920/gi134p.pdf

This article has a photo of 'Crumbo' in 1920. In all the photos I've seen of him he always looks like he is about 100 years old. Crumbo and Bernardo were close friends.

Simpson only made trip to the US, in 1920. He did take in Pine Valley, and was extremely impressed.

[Tags:]

Tags:

[Tags:]

Tags:

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()