did pete dye really say this?

[Matt Kardash]

Someone needs to post a photo tour of Colleton because many people say that this is the most underrated course Dye has ever built. The few pics I have seen and the highly enteraining Google aerial  lead me to beleive that this course has a lot to offer. It looks like the short par 4 (14th?) whereby you must hit your tee shot close to the marsh in order to get a partial view of the huge green that is blocked by a giant bunker/mound is straight out of Raynor's Fisher's Island. Link to the aerial and the hole I am talking about:

http://maps.google.ca/maps?q=Long+Cove+Drive,+Hilton+Head+Island,+SC,+United+States&hl=en&ll=32.297886,-80.778854&spn=0.00192,0.004128&sll=32.22197,-80.68916&sspn=0.061502,0.132093&oq=long+co&t=w&hnear=Long+Cove+Dr,+Hilton+Head+Island,+Beaufort,+South+Carolina+29928,+United+States&z=19

Ron Whitten also says it is a Top 100 course that is better than Long Cove and at least as good as Harbour Town. High praise!

[George Pazin]

Par 3 third.

No clue about the quality of the course, but aesthetically (and I know that is completely subjective), this is hideous squared.

[Matt Vandelac]

Hi George:
I know you comment is subjective, but please explain what you mean by 'hideously squared'.  I've been looking at the hole and can't find anything hideous or square about it, and how you'd go about making it less hideously square. 

[Mark Saltzman]

Hi George:
I know you comment is subjective, but please explain what you mean by 'hideously squared'.  I've been looking at the hole and can't find anything hideous or square about it, and how you'd go about making it less hideously square. 

Matt,

I think George means it is extremely hideous (as in hideous X hideous, or hideous²)

Why? The bunkering is all eye candy.  What is the point of that bunkering all over the place?  Much of this group enjoys minimalist design and the hole pictured is about as anti-minmialist as Shadow Creek if Trump got his hands on it.

I'm more neutral on all the fluff/eye-candy stuff, though I wonder how it impacts the maintenance budget.

George, please correct any assumptions I've made.

[Matt Kardash]

From what I read about this course Dye went to great lengths to find a grass for the rough that grows extremely slow, thus greatly reducing the need to cut the rough. So to answer your question, all his steep bunkers and mounds probably don't affect the budget THAT much.

From photos I've seen of this course this is one of the few holes that posseses a visual onsalght of bunkering. I think all the bunkers are there for intimidation purposes and to mix things up a little. What I find hilarious about this "enlightened" message board is that when it comes down to it people here are all about aesthetics. If the 20 or so bunkers left of the green were replaced by 1 deep Raynor-esque bunker then suddenly this hole becomes a cool redan, but as is people feel the need to talk about the aesthetics (whch George even mentions is subjective) instead of talking about what looks to be a fun par 3 to play.

Personally, I don't think all courses need to be minimalist. If anything, with minimalisim being so popular these days i find it kind of fun to see pictures of Dye courses where by he offeres a completley different take on how a golf course can be presented. Long live variety.

[BCrosby]

George -

I share your misgivings about the bunkering on the 3rd. The green, btw, is terrfic. Very deep (maybe 3 clubs worth) with lots of interesting movement. Take out 8 or 9 bunkers and presto, you've got a good looking mid length par 3.

Having played the course several times, the 3rd is an anomaly. Lots of good holes with enough width for a windy locale. Best of all for a Lowcountry course, Dye resisted the temptation to over-use water. Water comes into play on several holes, but it is used judiciously. Another good thing to do in windly places. It's a very good course. Better than Old Marsh in West Palm. I haven't played Long Cove recently enough to make a comparison. Harbor Town is sui generis.   

Bob

[John Shimp]

My son was prepping for a us am qualifier today at cr dye.  Its the real deal.  We played harbour town 2 days ago and cr dye is more intereting visually and playing wise, prettier to look at w great live oaks, bunkers, and 3 grasses used not including the greens (bermuda, zoysia, and interstingly centipede which provides a  low country fescue effect), and far more difficult for a strong player.   I played ocean at kiawah 4 weeks ago and cr dye is in that league from what i observed watching him the other day.

[Mike Vegis @ Kiawah]

I was on a conference call with Pete, Alice, Golf Digest's Ron Whitten and our former Director of Golf, Tommy Cuthbert back in 2000 or 2001 and Pete told Ron that he thought Colleton River was his best course.  A few years later, Pete also told me that same thing about Teeth of the Dog (mostly because of the number of people who have jobs in the DR that didn't have them before the complex).  I've never played the course.  However, many of you have seen it in The Legend of Bagger Vance.  The Ocean Course was the site of some of the movie.  The Dye Course at Colleton was the site of the rest of the golf scenes (i.e. their 1st hole where Junah hit the "stinger" and where the mis-hit the bunker shot...).

[Mark Pritchett]

I really like this course, though the a lot of the mounding (especially on the 9th) is a bit overcooked as are the number of bunkers(think 3rd hole).  This will turn off some of people that prefer a natural looking golf course, whatever that is. 

Probably in my top 5 of the HHI area. 

[George Pazin]

Hi George:
I know you comment is subjective, but please explain what you mean by 'hideously squared'.  I've been looking at the hole and can't find anything hideous or square about it, and how you'd go about making it less hideously square. 

Matt,

I think George means it is extremely hideous (as in hideous X hideous, or hideous²)

Why? The bunkering is all eye candy.  What is the point of that bunkering all over the place?  Much of this group enjoys minimalist design and the hole pictured is about as anti-minmialist as Shadow Creek if Trump got his hands on it.

I'm more neutral on all the fluff/eye-candy stuff, though I wonder how it impacts the maintenance budget.

George, please correct any assumptions I've made.

Nope, you got it right.

[John Shimp]

Hole 3 (pictured) is a bit whistling straits esque. The course is not hideous at all when you are there - quite the opposite.  Great mix of holes and lengths.  Challenging driving course with great approaches. Holes 12 and 14 are awesome short par 4s. Our host remarked that hole 14 is similar to 17 at ngla into the green which i agree with.  Very difficult golf also and not because its 7500 yd with water hazards.  

Requires real solid thinking and shot making without too many go/no go situations.  The usga sees to love the place based on the recent open/am qualifiers and 2015 us jr award.

[Matt Kardash]

Just looking at some pics and the aerial of this golf course leads me to believe it is one of Dye's most underrated courses. Same can be said about the PGA Dye club in Port Saint Lucie.