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John_Conley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Did Tom Lehman really join Golfclubatlas.com?
« on: August 25, 2008, 10:28:49 AM »
Cool.  Welcome.  No need to fill out the "what's your handicap?" or "tell me a little about you guys?" thread.

John Kirk

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Did Tom Lehman really join Golfclubatlas.com?
« Reply #1 on: August 25, 2008, 10:31:12 AM »
Welcome, Tom.  How's the Prairie Club coming along?

Edit:  Oops, it looks like that topic is being already being discussed on the "shapers" thread.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2008, 10:34:06 AM by John Kirk »

Ronald Montesano

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Did Tom Lehman really join Golfclubatlas.com?
« Reply #2 on: August 25, 2008, 10:33:08 AM »
Tom heard that I'm on board and subsequently felt the jones to join ...seriously, that was a giddy little girl reaction, JC.  Never let them see you sweat.
Coming in 2024
~Elmira Country Club
~Soaring Eagles
~Bonavista
~Indian Hills
~Maybe some more!!

Jeff_Brauer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Did Tom Lehman really join Golfclubatlas.com?
« Reply #3 on: August 25, 2008, 11:12:57 AM »
I spoke with Tom in the Pro shop at Oakland Hills last week and told him he really, really, should join our little group! (I spoke with him, but didn't really tell him that)

Anyway, welcome to the tree house, Tom.  I am sure your perspective on things like playability for the good player will be appreciated on some threads.  From our limited contact over the years, I suspect you are articulate enough in writing to shed some real light on those kinds of issues (and others, as well!)
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Phil McDade

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Did Tom Lehman really join Golfclubatlas.com?
« Reply #4 on: August 25, 2008, 11:24:36 AM »
Looking forward to his perspective on golf courses doubling as cross-country ski trails....

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Did Tom Lehman really join Golfclubatlas.com?
« Reply #5 on: August 25, 2008, 11:50:00 AM »
Does anyone care to compile a list of the great 'Toms' we have on this site. 

The name Tom and golf has a high correlation it seems.   ;D
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

ANTHONYPIOPPI

Re: Did Tom Lehman really join Golfclubatlas.com?
« Reply #6 on: August 25, 2008, 12:00:42 PM »
Is that true? Man, how much lower can he go? What's next, living in a refrigerator box behind an abandoned adult diaper factory?

Anthony


Michael

Re: Did Tom Lehman really join Golfclubatlas.com?
« Reply #7 on: August 25, 2008, 12:01:19 PM »

 Welcome Tom,

As many have said it will be interesting to hear how the professional players view certain G/C designs

 Michael C

Mike McGuire

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Did Tom Lehman really join Golfclubatlas.com?
« Reply #8 on: August 25, 2008, 12:11:38 PM »
Liked the Raven at Verrado outside Phoenix. Has some good fairway width and centerline bunkers. I believe he and John Fought worked together on this.



John Kavanaugh

Re: Did Tom Lehman really join Golfclubatlas.com?
« Reply #9 on: August 25, 2008, 12:21:51 PM »
Groupies are often the seed that lead to unrequited abortions. - Gillette Silver 

« Last Edit: August 25, 2008, 12:24:24 PM by John Kavanaugh »

John Moore II

Re: Did Tom Lehman really join Golfclubatlas.com?
« Reply #10 on: August 25, 2008, 12:32:06 PM »
Is that true? Man, how much lower can he go? What's next, living in a refrigerator box behind an abandoned adult diaper factory?

Anthony

Or maybe LIVING IN A VAN, DOWN BY THE RIVER!

Ronald Montesano

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Did Tom Lehman really join Golfclubatlas.com?
« Reply #11 on: August 25, 2008, 12:42:06 PM »
JKM...Motivational Speaker...why don't you just shut your yap?!?!?

I want Daly and Couples and the rest of the celeb archs on board now.
Coming in 2024
~Elmira Country Club
~Soaring Eagles
~Bonavista
~Indian Hills
~Maybe some more!!

ANTHONYPIOPPI

Re: Did Tom Lehman really join Golfclubatlas.com?
« Reply #12 on: August 25, 2008, 12:51:17 PM »
Mr. Moore:

If you want to mock my living arrangements, then just come out and say it. And, by the way, it's a CAMPER van, not a van van.

Anthony


Michael Dugger

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Did Tom Lehman really join Golfclubatlas.com?
« Reply #13 on: August 25, 2008, 12:54:44 PM »
JKM...Motivational Speaker...why don't you just shut your yap?!?!?

I want Daly and Couples and the rest of the celeb archs on board now.

Daly's keyboard doesn't work, it's too sticky from beer spilt on it.

If he even knows how to type.
What does it matter if the poor player can putt all the way from tee to green, provided that he has to zigzag so frequently that he takes six or seven putts to reach it?     --Alistair Mackenzie--

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Did Tom Lehman really join Golfclubatlas.com?
« Reply #14 on: August 25, 2008, 01:20:09 PM »
The truth is that the player/design arena seems to be getting more competitive and many more players are entering the field.  But, I think it is safe to say that there are all level of player involvements from merely signing the design plans to getting out there and really grubbing a golf course design out of the ground.  Then it becomes sort of a guessing game by novice golf course architecture hobbiests to glean which player/designers are truly doing significant work, and which are mailing it it.  Following a name player whom we might have all enjoyed watching play the game and then translating their name to actual GCA is a pity, IMHO.  We get so caught-up in celebrity endorsement in all these commercial marketting fields from equipment to real estate-golf projects, that we diminish the real genius and talent that goes into the making of a great product, golf courses or whatever.  So Tom's first calling attention to the shapers is a good thing.  Now it would be great if he expands the comments as to what specifically is going on that is great.

Of course we all know Ben and Bill are the real deal.  And, Graham Marsh truly did spend vast amounts of time at Sutton Bay.  Tom seems to be quite involved in the real process at the new Prairie Club and some of his other co-designer work. 

I wish there were some sort of standard of real time investment that these player/designers would have to demonstrate to earn the co-design credit.  Alas, that may be to idealistic or not very commercially realistic. 

But, Tom coming on here and entering the discussions in a meaningful and descriptive way is very encouraging because he runs the risk of exposing weaknesses and steps up to show confidence in his brief.  That he shows up to discuss in comparison to how many player/designers who wouldn't dare, is telling. 
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

John Kavanaugh

Re: Did Tom Lehman really join Golfclubatlas.com?
« Reply #15 on: August 25, 2008, 01:23:22 PM »

I wish there were some sort of standard of real time investment that these player/designers would have to demonstrate to earn the co-design credit.  Alas, that may be to idealistic or not very commercially realistic. 


Then you sure as hell better hold Brad Klein, George Bahto, Ron Whitten and Geoff Shackelford to the same standard. 

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Did Tom Lehman really join Golfclubatlas.com?
« Reply #16 on: August 25, 2008, 01:27:56 PM »
JK, I know personally of the serious time investment on the land that some of those you mentioned had made in their projects, and I know by reputation that the others put in serious time and input in the projects they are associated with.  That much is documented. 

That list is NOT the list of those who I had in mind that are designers in name and signature only.
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

Michael

Re: Did Tom Lehman really join Golfclubatlas.com?
« Reply #17 on: August 25, 2008, 01:34:49 PM »
I was wondering something along those lines...how much designing do some of the cross over player/designers put in to a course?  where is the "line", or is there a line at all, of just putting your name on a project?

John_Conley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Did Tom Lehman really join Golfclubatlas.com?
« Reply #18 on: August 25, 2008, 02:03:12 PM »
Tom heard that I'm on board and subsequently felt the jones to join ...seriously, that was a giddy little girl reaction, JC.  Never let them see you sweat.

Ron, it was?  Whenever I access the site you can see the name of the most recent person that joined.  First time I've ever said, "Wow, look who just joined."

My funny Tom Lehman story.  He was among the top few golfers in the world a few years back and played in the Disney event.  Through family we were always treated quite well at a restaurant on Disney property.  We showed up and were seated right away despite a throng waiting, a group that included Lehman.  Unfortunately he waited a long time.  I thought the Disney event could have done more for a competitor in their event during tournament week.

I also saw him speak a few years after that at a church breakfast and found it very enjoyable.  The summer before the Ryder Cup where he was captain.  That was probably during Bay Hill week.

John Kavanaugh

Re: Did Tom Lehman really join Golfclubatlas.com?
« Reply #19 on: August 25, 2008, 02:32:57 PM »
JK, I know personally of the serious time investment on the land that some of those you mentioned had made in their projects, and I know by reputation that the others put in serious time and input in the projects they are associated with.  That much is documented. 

That list is NOT the list of those who I had in mind that are designers in name and signature only.

Next thing you know Howard Fineman is going to be designing courses with the blessing of this board.  He does have the credentials over someone who wasted their life away becoming a great golfer.  I pulled this from Wikipedia: Fineman holds an A.B., Phi Beta Kappa, from Colgate (where he was a member of Beta Theta Pi), an M.S. in journalism from Columbia, and a J.D. from the University of Louisville. His legal education included a year at the Georgetown University Law Center. He received Watson and Pulitzer Traveling Fellowships for study in Europe, Russia and the Middle East. He lives in Washington with his wife, Amy L. Nathan, and their two children, Nicholas and Meredith.

I'm a little odd in my thinking that a guy learns more about golf course architecture through the work it takes to get to the level of a major winner than he would while attending law school.  I would say the same for any other profession that seems to draw people to golf course architecture including, dentistry, political science, engineering, landscape architecture or turf management.  Of all the fields where testing should be done before a person is given a piece of land - major winning professional golfer should be at the very back of the line.  It is simple...Question everyone or question no one.

John_Conley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Did Tom Lehman really join Golfclubatlas.com?
« Reply #20 on: August 25, 2008, 02:49:47 PM »
John:  I don't see what the shocker is. 

Dave, when Jim Nugent joined it wasn't the Jim Nugent who was Publisher of GOLFWEEK at the time.  (Now Publisher of PGA Tour Partners magazine if I'm not mistaken.

When Robert Walker posted it was not the Robert Walker that designed Regatta Bay and was/is a member of ASGCA.

Some people have shared names.  I don't think it was a total shocker, but it did make me ask if it is the Tom Lehman that co-designed Lake Jovita (with Kurt Sandness) and Windsong Farm (with John Fought I think).

Jay Flemma

Re: Did Tom Lehman really join Golfclubatlas.com?
« Reply #21 on: August 25, 2008, 03:16:35 PM »
Welcome.  Good to have you aboard.

Ronald Montesano

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Did Tom Lehman really join Golfclubatlas.com?
« Reply #22 on: August 25, 2008, 03:41:19 PM »
JC, you mean you didn't say "wow, Ronald Montesano joined" when I signed up?  S'allright.  Few did.
Coming in 2024
~Elmira Country Club
~Soaring Eagles
~Bonavista
~Indian Hills
~Maybe some more!!

John Moore II

Re: Did Tom Lehman really join Golfclubatlas.com?
« Reply #23 on: August 25, 2008, 03:59:32 PM »
Mr. Moore:

If you want to mock my living arrangements, then just come out and say it. And, by the way, it's a CAMPER van, not a van van.

Anthony

Does this mean if I buy a case of Mountain Dew you'll come to Pinehurst and give a motivational speech?


JKM...Motivational Speaker...why don't you just shut your yap?!?!?

Didn't he actually say 'shut your pie hole'?? I haven't seen that full skit in a long time

I want Daly and Couples and the rest of the celeb archs on board now.

Ronald Montesano

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Did Tom Lehman really join Golfclubatlas.com?
« Reply #24 on: August 25, 2008, 04:09:31 PM »
I think it was "pie hole."  Courteous, that Matt Foley.
Coming in 2024
~Elmira Country Club
~Soaring Eagles
~Bonavista
~Indian Hills
~Maybe some more!!

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