[Mike Policano]

Gents,

Very few changes were made to the course.  Two new back tees were added, #3 (3East) a par 5 which was lengthened only 20-25 yards.  And #9, a par 4 (5 East) which was lengthened 40-45 yards.  As Bill mentioned, the 7 Center forward tee is being used for #13, stretching it to 625 yards.  A few other back tees were expanded to handle the increased play.  The fairways will play at the same width they always are and a few trees were removed, transplanted or trimmed, but nothing significant. Only the rough is higher and thicker than usual for this time of year.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Mike Policano,

I played the composite course and other than a few new tees didn't notice any substantive changes.

I believe that # 5 East will be a challenging hole.

I thought that the tee on # 4 center wasn't back far enough and that the best players in the world will drive the ball over the crest of the hill giving them an unobstructed view of the green.
If the tee was positioned at the front of the current back tee it would be quite a hole with a lot of hollering about the blindness of the second shot.

The forward tee on # 2 Center also concerns me as it might not present a challenge equal to the abilities of the field.

But, if the weather holds and it doesn't rain, the golf course should offer a worthy challenge, unless the set-up is benign.

It should be fun to watch.

[Ted Kramer]

How often do you think we'll see the pros try to drive the 5 and dime green?
I bet we'll see a fair amount of that . . .

-Ted

[Matt_Ward]

David / Dan:

Rotating courses in the NYC metro area would be a fine option if the Tour goes ahead with it.

I'm not a fan of Liberty National from a design perspective when compared to the traditoinal
parksland courses like Ridgewood and Westchester but the site in Jersey City does have the muscle and room capacity to handle a big time tour event of this caliber. Plus you can't beat the aerial shots of lower Manhattan and the S of L in the background.

Westchester made for a fantastic venue and it's sad to see a parting of the way for the time being.

Ridgewood will prove to be an interesting situation because besides Baltusrol you really only have a very small number of other courses capable in hosting. Plainfield was nearly overwhelmed by the Women's Open in '87 -- only Trump's place could handle the necessary requirements you see today.

Ted K:

I believe you will see few really try for it.

The green and angle you get from the tee make such a play less than 50/50. Not because of the distance issue but because of the way the green is perched and the narrow nature of the landing area for those who attempt to pull it off. It was far easier hitting the 17th at Oakmont than Ridgewood's unique 5 and dime green. But we shall see what happens this week ...

[Bill Brightly]

How often do you think we'll see the pros try to drive the 5 and dime green?
I bet we'll see a fair amount of that . . .

-Ted

I was there early on Tuesday and heard Charles Howell III and Rory Sabitini discussing this! They both agreed that they would lay up, that the risk did not justify the reward. Rory said he wants to make no worse than par each day. Plus, these guys are so absolutely amazing with half wedges from the fairway, I have to believe that 95% will lay up.

I heard that Anthony Kim hit three drives on Monday and hit the green once. He may be one who tries. It is 290 playing 300 due to the uphill green, and it is all carry. 

[Ted Kramer]

I played one round at Ridgewood.
I kicked myself after walking off that green for not trying to hit it.
The wedge into that green is no picnic.
I certainly would play at or at least towards the green if I had the chance to play it again.
Then again, my wedge game isn't so good . . .

-Ted

[Mike Policano]

Ted,

I am definitely in the minority.  I think more pros will try to drive the green than most people think.  The very good ams like Greg Stebbins and Andrew Biggadike go 5 or 6 iron and a wedge.  And yes I know the pros are tremendous wedge players.

But it is  sliver of a green.  And it is blind.  You can see the flagstick but you can not see the green from anywhere in the fairway. And the green has a ridge running across the middle.  Coming in with a sand wedge or lob wedge from the fairway to a back to front green may wind up with balls to the back tier spinning to the front and balls on the front spinning back into the rough. Also, the green cants sharply left to right.

My son who hits a long ball concluded after numerous efforts that driving the green is the way to go.  His logic is as follows.  I can miss anywhere but left.  If I hit the green or the right next to it, I can make a 2.  If I don't hit the green then most of the time I am in a greenside bunker or in the rough and I can up and down for 3.  Worst case 9 out 10 times is a 4. 

Pat what do you think?

I will be there watching hoping for some fun!

[Patrick_Mucci]

Mike Policano,

I tend to agree with your son.

Balls hit short and right don't face overly difficult shots.
Balls hit long have a dicier recovery.
Balls hit left have the most difficult approaches.

But, these are the best players in the world, not weekend members.

While they tend to play the percentages, if the wind is down, I think a good number of them will go for the green if the tees are in an acceptable location.

[Bill Brightly]

The fact that we are even having this debate shows the beauty of this hole! I will argue that going for the green is a DUMB play and here's why:

1) the percentage of times a pro will get the ball on this green is REALLY low, I say less than 5%. I guess the green is  8 paces wide? It is 290yards to the green, dead uphill, and if you fly it to the green it will bound over. The ball must one hop in the rough and miss two bunkers, a very lucky bounce, to stay on. Best place to miss is the bunker short of green, long bunker is real trouble.

2) the narrowness of the green makes wedge from the rough FAR harder than a normal lob wedge. It is VERY easy to hit it over (left), and the rough over the green is DEAD, you will likely not keep your 3rd shot on the green. I watched the guys trying! they almost all ended up across the green!

3) I saw NO pros miss the green with their wedges when they layed up. Their half-wedge games are so much better than the best amateurs. Look at the two balls on the green in my picture: those were two different pros who layed up...

So I say almost all all lay up. Except Phil...

[Greg Stebbins]

I predict that a lot of the players will try it and unless they hit a great shot, will re-evaluate and lay up.  The reason is that when you miss around the green, there is a very good possibility that, no matter how good your short game is, you can't get it close enough to have a legit birdie chance.  From 80 yards in the fairway, you can get it close to any pin on that green. 

I predict that no one in the field puts it on more than twice in the four rounds.  Its a really tiny target.

[Patrick_Mucci]

The fact that we are even having this debate shows the beauty of this hole! I will argue that going for the green is a DUMB play and here's why:

1) the percentage of times a pro will get the ball on this green is REALLY low, I say less than 5%. I guess the green is  8 paces wide? It is 290yards to the green, dead uphill, and if you fly it to the green it will bound over. The ball must one hop in the rough and miss two bunkers, a very lucky bounce, to stay on. Best place to miss is the bunker short of green, long bunker is real trouble.

Bill, you're forgetting that balls hit left of the green will probably bounce to the right, onto the green.

It's balls hit left of the slope that will be left with the most difficult approach.

2) the narrowness of the green makes wedge from the rough FAR harder than a normal lob wedge. It is VERY easy to hit it over (left), and the rough over the green is DEAD, you will likely not keep your 3rd shot on the green. I watched the guys trying! they almost all ended up across the green!

I disagree again, most missing the green may end up on the steep upslope, and from the steep upslope it's a relatively easy shot for the best golfers in the world.

3) I saw NO pros miss the green with their wedges when they layed up. Their half-wedge games are so much better than the best amateurs. Look at the two balls on the green in my picture: those were two different pros who layed up...

I think some of the decisions will be based on how well the competitor is playing (driving) when he reaches that hole.  And, where they stand relative to the field, when they're on that tee.

There's no doubt that an iron and an L or S wedge will bring most competitors a birdie putt, but, not an eagle putt.  Those needing an eagle, who are willing to settle for a birdie or par, might attempt to drive the green.

I think conditions of the day will dictate play.

[Bill Brightly]

'Bill, you're forgetting that balls hit left of the green will probably bounce to the right, onto the green."

Maybe, but some will stick in the rough, others will roll across the green. And the ball must fly 290 in the air to get this bounce!



"I disagree again, most missing the green may end up on the steep upslope, and from the steep upslope it's a relatively easy shot for the best golfers in the world."

I disagree. If this was a normal sized green, it would not be a hard shot. But there is no green to work with, the shot must be perfect, and thick rough is one variable that bothers even pros. They have to hit it firm to get through the rough, but if they go long bogey is quite likely, ditto for short.


"There's no doubt that an iron and an L or S wedge will bring most competitors a birdie putt, but, not an eagle putt.  Those needing an eagle, who are willing to settle for a birdie or par, might attempt to drive the green."

It is hole #5, not 16 or 17...why risk not having 50-50 birdie opportunity so early in the round?


As an aside, I wonder if the grandstands on the hill will be in play for the REALLY big hookers? Yikes!

[David Panzarasa]

Players seem to be raving about the course, condition and setup. Listen to the golf channel, and everyone is saying its one of the best courses they will play all year. If this goes well, and players keep raving about it, I would have to think it will return here again.
 We dont se enough of these courses on tour, plain and simple. Long holes, short holes, accuracy off the tee is key (unless its a major), a thinking man's course.

[Bill Brightly]

I would not expect another event at Ridgewood soon. As much as I am thrilled that the pros are in North Jersey playing a great course, there is no getting around the tremendous disruption this caused to the members. No carts for the past month, and no guests. Those who have to ride had to play what holes were left over form the 3 nines after the composition course was set up. The rough has been brutal and the greens cut higher than normal to protect them. Throw in the "up and back" fairway cut to keep the equipment out of the rough....(most prefer the look of the diamond cut.)

When its over, there will be time to take everything down and the course will show the wear from the crowds. You don't have to think too hard to imagine that a very solid percentage of the members feel this was not worth it...But my hat is off to Ridgewood for hosting this one!

[tlavin]

Mickelson and Kim on Ridgewood, from Jason Sobel's espn.com blog:

      Q: I know you've said nice things about Ridgewood. Does it fit your eye better than Westchester did?

      PHIL MICKELSON: I like Westchester. I think it's a great golf course. I do feel as though Ridgewood is a step up in quality. It's just a wonderful golf course. I've always loved going to Westchester, but this course really is a major championship feel. It's a Tillinghast, same designer as Winged Foot; same designer I believe as Baltusrol, very similar feel, and it has that northeast, major championship field.

      Q: Is it more Winged Foot or Baltusrol?

      PHIL MICKELSON: It's got glimpses of both. It really has glimpses of both. You can see similarities throughout.

      Q: Hopefully it will be more Baltusrol than Winged Foot for you.

      PHIL MICKELSON: Well, the 18th hole doglegs right, not left, so that's a nice change.

Uh-oh, does that mean no "bread-and-butter baby slice" for Lefty come Sunday afternoon?

      Q: Holes 1, 2, 4 and 6, right off the bat, the best birdie opportunities and a lot of the other holes are tough and greens are left-to-right. Where else on the course besides 1, 2, 4 and 6 are other opportunities for players this week as well?

      ANTHONY KIM: Well, if you hit the ball in the fairway, every hole is a birdie hole. Obviously 1, I hit a drive, was it yesterday, I played nine holes yesterday and I hit it five yards right of where I was looking and the wind caught it and hit the tree and I was right behind the tree. So even though it's a driver, chip, if you don't hit the ball in the fairway, it's going to be tough.

      They have made the rough so it kind of grows into you, and so I had 170 to carry the rough on I think hole number -- the par 5 on the back, and I didn't get it over from the intermediate rough. The rough is pretty penal out here. You can get lucky, but the greens are perfect, so I don't see where there isn't too many birdie opportunities.

[Jerry Kluger]

Pat and Bill:

There were many who felt that courses like Congressional were making the rough so thick that it was taking many of the bunkers out of play as the ball would be held up in the rough and not allowed to bounce into the bunkers.  Is that same thing happening at Ridgewood, especially in so far as the fairway bunkers are concerned?

[Matt_Ward]

Jerry:

To answer your question -- yes, the rough has choked off quick access to offline shots to fairway bunkers.

Nonetheless, the course set-up overall -- not just from players assessments, but from eyeballs from other observant folks -- Ridgewood is prepared the way tournament golf needs to be played. There's plenty of scoring opportunities and there will be bogeys for those who don't execute. Candidly, there's no real reason why the PGA Championship could not have been set-up the way Ridgewood is this week.

Gents:

Interesting to watch the threesome of Lefty, Padraig and Kenny P today.

When they approached the 5th hole -- it was the 14th hole for their round today -- Lefty went with a hybrid off the tee -- Perry likely hit 2-3 iron and Paddie went for the green. The net result:

Lefty had a kick-in birdied -- nearly holed the 2nd short from 40 yards -- Perry two-putted after a poor wedge and Paddie missed the green to the far right and could only lob the ball on the green and was left with a 17-18 footer that missed.

Going for the green is just not a smart play unless you are so in need of an eagle to jumpstart the round. Like I said previously -- going for Oakmont's 17th at last year's US Open was far easier from the tee shot perspective than Ridgewood's 5 and dime.

[Ian Larson]

I would not expect another event at Ridgewood soon. As much as I am thrilled that the pros are in North Jersey playing a great course, there is no getting around the tremendous disruption this caused to the members. No carts for the past month, and no guests. Those who have to ride had to play what holes were left over form the 3 nines after the composition course was set up. The rough has been brutal and the greens cut higher than normal to protect them. Throw in the "up and back" fairway cut to keep the equipment out of the rough....(most prefer the look of the diamond cut.)

When its over, there will be time to take everything down and the course will show the wear from the crowds. You don't have to think too hard to imagine that a very solid percentage of the members feel this was not worth it...But my hat is off to Ridgewood for hosting this one!

Bill,

I wont disagree with you that there is a percentage of members that would rather not have it because of the disruption. But I wouldnt count on that ever keeping a tournament away. I know a couple members at RCC, as well as having worked there myself, Ive been told the membership in general is very open to hosting the tournament. When I worked there, there were always talks about the club getting more tournaments.

IMO the rough is beautiful and fair. 3 1/2" isnt brutal. And when the tourney is over the members probably wont even play the same rough, it will probably go down to 2 or 2 1/2".

I assure you the greens have not been cut higher than normal "to protect them". Protect them from what? To perform the exact way they have been managed to perform?

And the members love the up and back cut.

Liberty National may have a nice backdrop with the city and the glass clubhouse that looks like it is straight from Dubai, but I dont see anything  in the course that even compares to RCC. This course by far will be the best played this year and is manicured perfectly. 

[D_Malley]

i have never played RW, but that green on #5 looks very similar to #5 at Philly cricket, although maybe a little smaller than PCC #5.  can anyone comment who has played both. 

[Mike Policano]

D Malley, the 5th at RCC is smaller than the 5th at PCC.  The 5th at RCC is the smallest green I have ever seen on a real golf course.

Matt, there were only 4 birdies on the 5th thru the first 10 groups and only two guys used driver, Wi and Scott.  I wasn't there in the afternoon but I understand more players used their drivers including Appleby, Sergio and Vijay.  Appleby put it in the back left bunker and made eagle.

Very few guys reached #13 in two at 625.  Elkington put it pin high in two with driver driver and two putted.

Also, at two in the afternoon, only two guys reached 17 in two.  Both eagled it.

Jerry, the rough around fairway bunkers on this layout is not an issue because there are very few fairway bunkers. Of the par 4's, 1,4,6,7,12,16 and 18 don't have any fairway bunkers and #5's aren't in play for the pros.  And on the par 5's, 3 has no fairway bunkers, 17 has one that isn't in play for the pros and #13 has one which caught some drives today.

[Matt_Ward]

Mike:

More guys could go for the green later in the day because the southeast wind did pick up and assist with the decision to go for the green. The same wind pattern is expected tomorrow.

I don't see the sense in going for the green. The target is way too small and it's very easy for the ball to hang up on some half-way lie that you can do much with.

Lefty and Perry were right at the end of the fairway cut and could access any pin location with nothing more than a 50-yard shot. Phil had a kick-in birdie while Perry missed his wedge badly and could only two-putt.

Final comment on today's first round -- the score by Hunter Mahan demonstrated for me at least that he belongs on this year's Ryder Cup team. The man has the total game -- the issue is consistency on the mental side and not shooting one's mouth off prematurely as he did with his earlier Ryder Cup comments.

An interesting week has only gotten more interesting.

[rboyce]

Just watched Robert Allenby drive it through the green on 5 and then blast out of the bunker and into the hole for eagle. Really cool.  Sergio drove past the green but only made par. The third player laid up but made birdie. Lot of options and outcomes.

[D_Malley]

Mike now that i have seen it on TV the green does look alot smaller than #5 at Cricket.  But the two holes do seem to have some similar characteristics.  i think cricket is longer, but not by much.  which one did AWT design first?

[Dan Herrmann]

Ridgewood is an example of what's good about golf.  An oasis in the NJ quagmire known as the Route 17 corridor.   You'd never know that Garden State Plaza (a HUGE shopping mall) and Paramus Park (a really big shopping mall) were so close.

After seeing the course today, I'll definitely be there Saturday.

Anybody else going?

[Bill Brightly]

I did an informal study of the leaderboard after about 2/3 were done. The field was -17 on the 5th hole with one eagle and one double. I'd say about 20 bogies and 37 birdies. Fun stuff. Driver is still a DUMB play in my mind!

Cool thng about Mahan's round: he shot 62 and only birdied one of the par 5's!

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