tee shots over greens -- not that there's anything wrong with that...

[Phil McDade]

Kyle Henderson's photo essay of Sand Hills depicts an architectural design element not usually found -- a tee shot over the preceding hole's green. I've played one at one of my favorite Scottish courses, Cullen (where there are several crossing shots, admittedly.)

At first glance, this may seem awkward, or even dangerous. But is it?

-- If done on the tee shot immediately following said green, the green will likely be empty of all but the actual golf balls shot on approach.

-- Greens are often one of the first things placed/found by architects/designers, in part because they often sit on interesting land. Shouldn't tee pads share some of that interesting terrain?

-- On constrained sites, perhaps this is a way to squeeze in a better tee shot, or allow for needed lengthening.

Thoughts? Done properly, should it be considered more often, rather than automatically ruled out? Other examples of this that the board knows of? How well (or not) do they work?

[John Moore II]

I recall seeing one in the pictures from Rock Creek Cattle, but I am not sure. I think the idea is fine, as long as its not one a hole that would tend to back up, like probably don't have that tee on driveable par 4 or a reachable par 5, where play would tend to stall. But otherwise, its a fine thing to have.

[Joe Bausch]

Heck, both of these I could be wrong on, but here goes:

1.  I was told by someone that years ago for awhile the tee for the par 4 3rd at Cobb's Creek was back behind the 18th green, essentially the tee for #14 at the Karakung course, requiring a shot over the 18th green.

2.  I believe the tee shot from the tips on the par 3 #15 at Stranz's Royal New Kent requires the ball fly over the back part of the previous green.  This photo might somewhat show what I mean:

[Padraig Dooley]

Here in Cork GC we have two tee shots over greens.
The eleventh tee shot is over the tenth green and the fifteenth
tee shot is over the fourteenth green. We never have any problems.
The fifteenth tee shot is also over the first fairway.

I have a couple of photographs but they're not from the best angle.

View of the 14th green with the 15th tee to the right and 1st fairway on the left,
both not visible.



View from the back right of the 14th green looking up the 15th fairway

[Mike Benham]

Upper tee of the 5th hole at Stanford ... 4th green is hidden by the trees in the lower right.

[Tom_Doak]

There are a lot of holes overseas where a tee shot plays over the previous green.  It works best after a par-3 hole, because obviously the group behind is nowhere close to walking onto the green.

The first two examples I can think of are the fourth at Ballybunion (hitting over the third green), and the third at Royal Worlington & Newmarket (hitting over the second green).  In fact Royal Worlington does it again at the sixth hole, if I remember correctly.

We've done this a couple of times, and I wouldn't hesitate to do it again on a private course as long as I'm sure it's a safe spot for it.

[Chip Gaskins]

ballybunion



i am sure everyone knows, but lahinch has crossing fairways and tee boxes

[mike_beene]

9th at Bel-Air tees off over 8th green.9 plays at a 90 degree angle,and the tee is protected by some trees,making it almost unnoticable.

[Bill_McBride]

Here in Cork GC we have two tee shots over greens.
The eleventh tee shot is over the tenth green and the fifteenth
tee shot is over the fourteenth green. We never have any problems.
The fifteenth tee shot is also over the first fairway.

I have a couple of photographs but they're not from the best angle.

View of the 14th green with the 15th tee to the right and 1st fairway on the left,
both not visible.



View from the back right of the 14th green looking up the 15th fairway

Is that the original Mackenzie routing?

[Bill_McBride]

Sean Arble knows this one.  All the tees at #4 Pennard play straight across the previous #3 green.

[Ken Moum]

At Nairn Golf Club they lost one of their tees to erosion (the 5th, IIRC). It was behind and to theright of the previous green. They had a choice of shortening the hole by placing it to the left of the green, or playing over the green.

The tee is at the same level as the green, and when I played it the flagstick was almost exactly on the line of play.

It was a slighly strange feeling.

Ken

[Jim Nugent]

Does one of CPC's par 3's tee off over the preceding green?  I think it's on the front side, and the tee is elevated up above the green you hit over. 

[Anthony Fowler]

3rd tee shot at La Jolla CC plays over the 2nd green.  It works out beautifully in this case because 2 is a par 3 and its green sits down in a small valley.

[Kyle Henderson]

2.  I believe the tee shot from the tips on the par 3 #15 at Stranz's Royal New Kent requires the ball fly over the back part of the previous green.  This photo might somewhat show what I mean:

Strantz has players hitting over the #3 green at Tot Hill Farm from the back tees of #4.

[Mike_Clayton]

At Royal Worlington - if my memory is right - you play over the 4th green from the 5th tee and over the 5th green from the 6th tee.

Neil Crafter might chime in here but I have always thought the 6th hole at Glenelg would have been so much better if the tee had been to the right and played straight over the 5th green.
To me it would make a poor tee shot into a beauty but it is hard to convince a committee to do it in Australia because its so uncommon here.

We have suggested it a few times to very lukewarm reactions.

At Hilversum in Holland the drive at the 14th plays straight over the 13th green and it was never a problem in all the Dutch Opens they played there.

[Brett Morris]

I'm sure I've seen a photo on GCA of Tobacco Road with a tee shot over the previous green.

[Sean_A]

There are tons of examples of hitting over greens over here.  As Tom D points out, often times a par 3 is involved.  The 4th at Kington goes straight over the par 3 3rd green.  One of the best examples is the 17th at Addington hitting over the par 5 16th green. 

Ciao

[Padraig Dooley]

Is that the original Mackenzie routing?

Bill

The club settled at our present site in 1898, extended to 18 around 1910/11.
MacKenzie came in the 20's to remodel. All the records were lost in a clubhouse fire
in the 40's. He kept some of the original routing. It would have been nice to see
his plans for the work.

[John Moore II]

I'm sure I've seen a photo on GCA of Tobacco Road with a tee shot over the previous green.

Not that I can think of. There is one time, depending on line from the tee, where a player hits over another tee box (2nd teeshot, over 11th tee, and around #3 tee for that matter). Unless you consider a tee directly off the back of the green or a short walk off, you don't hit across a green.

[Matt_Ward]

When you play the tip tees at #7 at Lahinch - you do go over a portion of the 6th green.

Very neat indeed -- just don't hit the low cut fade there !

[Bill_McBride]

Does one of CPC's par 3's tee off over the preceding green?  I think it's on the front side, and the tee is elevated up above the green you hit over. 

That's #7 which does play over the green of par 5 #6 down below.  Mackenzie did some great things with the big sandhills there in terms of tees above greens down below.  #10's tee is sort of above but off to the left of #11 down below.

[Tyler Kearns]

The tee shot on #2 at Royal Melbourne East plays over the back half of #1 green.  It seems that this scenario has the potential to cause problems should there be a back-up caused by searching for an errand ball or just plain old slow play.

TK