[Scott Macpherson]

I am interested in what Tom Doak said in another thread. He said ' Ideally, I would have a hole under 150 and a hole over 225 on each course I did, just because it seems to make people uncomfortable.'

A design company I was working for 5 years ago built a short par 3 on a course in St Andrews. (The 8th hole on the Devlin course) It was 139y long (short). How it came to be this length is another story, but I was intrigued by the reaction this hole got. It polarised golfers. They loved it, or thought it was too short to be a real golf hole.

Since then I have always had an interest in short holes. What are the best par 3's under 150 yards?

7th at Pebble Beach? (120y?)
8th at Swinley Forest? (146y)
11th at St Georges Hill (110y)
The postage Stamp at Troon? (126y)

I am interested in your views.

scott

[Andy Troeger]

#15 at Cypress Point (135y) is the best I've seen. You already mentioned #7 at Pebble Beach.

TPC Sawgrass #17 is love it or hate it, but I'd include it.
#15 at Pasatiempo, #14 at Crystal Downs

Some of the ones I went back and checked and the back tee came in at 151-60 yards. Otherwise I'd include #3 at Spyglass Hill, #2 at Colorado GC, and #9 at Aldarra too of what I've seen.

[David Stamm]

15 at CPC

7 at PB

10 at Wilshire

8 at Rustic

3 at Ojai

13 at Lake Arrowhead

17 at South Hills

15 at Pasa

[wsmorrison]

Merion East #13, 127 yards
Note:  no baskets as they are not used from December till April

[Tom Birkert]

Merion East #13, 127 yards
Note:  no baskets as they are not used from December till April

That's an easy hole Wayne... ;-)

[wsmorrison]

Not each and every time, Tom.  I hope you'll revisit sometime soon.  Here's one you didn't see on your travels, but ought to try and make a point of playing:

Hidden Creek #11, 121 yards

[Phil McDade]

Merion East #13, 127 yards
Note:  no baskets as they are not used from December till April

Wayne:

I never knew that; interesting tidbit. What's the reason?

[Bill_McBride]

Pacific Dunes #11

Royal County Down #7

[wsmorrison]

Phil,

I think to save wear on them and maybe because the staff isn't as large so they don't want someone out there collecting them at night (which they do anyway to deter thefts) and replacing the baskets with flags.

[JSlonis]

Pine Valley #10

[Scott Szabo]

I'll throw out #17 at Sand Hills and #3 at Ballyneal as excellent par threes that are under 150 yards - I'm surprised no one has mentioned them as of yet.  Another gem is #11 at Wild Horse at about 125 yards.

[Tom_Doak]

Best ones we've built:

7th at Barnbougle Dunes
11th at Pacific Dunes
11th at St. Andrews Beach (I think it's under 150, never can remember when it's measured in meters)
3rd at Ballyneal
4th at Aetna Springs

We're pretty committed to the concept.

[wsmorrison]

When was the DA put in the 10th at Pine Valley GC?  Who did it?  We know who added the bunkering below the 2nd and 18th greens, but that was in the 1940s.  The early photos below are from the 1910s.

10th at Pine Valley GC circa 1914 without DA



10th at Pine Valley GC with DA



10th at Pine Valley GC recent



[img]

[Scott Macpherson]

HI Tom,

Thanks for joining in the thread... always a pleasure.

So when you find a nice corner or piece of the property to place a wee gem, what are your design principles to getting the most out of a short hole? Green slopes? Green orientation? Do the holes turn out better if they are downhill?


scott

[Matthew Rose]

I love them all. Good to see they're being brought back.

Psychologically they're great.... bogeying a 120 yarder will draw the ire of anybody for three holes afterwards.

[brad_miller]

Aside from some already mentioned, Merion #13, PV #10, CD #14 please add #11 at Shinny, #6 at NGLA (Short) and numbers 2 and 10 at Prairie Dunes. Additions need to be played from members tee to hit 150 yard criteria.

[Will MacEwen]

11th at Pacific Dunes is special.

What I like about a shorter par three is that I will generally go at the flag, or thereabouts, bringing more risk/reward into play.  Birdie and double bogey are more in play.  If I have a four or five iron in my hand, I am more concerned about the centre of the green and bailout areas.  Four of those in a round gets a might dull.

[Tom_Doak]

Scott:

The main thing the five holes I listed have in common is a TINY green ... I think the 11th at Pacific Dunes would have the biggest green of the five. 

After that, each has a dominant hazard that you can't be caught dead in, and with the exception of Aetna Springs, all of them are to the left side of the hole.  That wasn't conscious on my part, but it makes sense to me, because it's so easy to pull a short iron shot.

[Bill_McBride]

Scott:

The main thing the five holes I listed have in common is a TINY green ... I think the 11th at Pacific Dunes would have the biggest green of the five. 

After that, each has a dominant hazard that you can't be caught dead in, and with the exception of Aetna Springs, all of them are to the left side of the hole.  That wasn't conscious on my part, but it makes sense to me, because it's so easy to pull a short iron shot.

With all the wind at Pacific Dunes, the 11th green doesn't play as big as it measures.

And yes, that water hazard to the left of #11 is indeed pretty dominant! 

[Patrick Schultheis]

Two of my favorites:

#8 at Stanford Golf Course

#13 at Tumble Creek (sentimental favorite --- I'm building to the right of the tee box ;-) )

[Jim Nugent]

Who planted all those trees at Pine Valley?  The difference between then and now is really striking. 

[Jeff_Mingay]

Though no one's played it yet, we built a 125-yard hole at the 12th at Sagebrush Golf and Sporting Club, in British Columbia. This hole will see some play this year. But, the entire course won't open until 2009.

The downhill 13th at Sagebrush is barely 300 yards, par-4. At elevation, these holes will probably play like back-to-back par-3s for better golfers, which should prove to be an interesting sequence. 

[John Moore II]

Best par 3 under 150 I can think of is #3 at Pine Needles. Over water (but you can run the ball on the green for those who think that is always needed ) with a very interesting green that runs off in the back.

[Jimmy Muratt]

Some of my favorites and not yet mentioned:

#9 at Myopia Hunt Club  (this may be the best of all.....period)
#2 at the Kingsley Club
#6 at Boston Golf Club
#9 at Old Sandwich
#14 at Kinloch

[hhuffines]

Jasper Park has one about 115 yards... One of the toughest holes I've played.

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