Long Putters

[Tom_Doak]

Would all of the folks calling for a ban on long or "anchored" putters or putting strokes be content looking Webb Simpson and Keegan Bradley in the eye and telling them that the way of putting whose validity under the Rules that they've never had reason to doubt, and in large part the reason they've been able to be successful in golf, is now invalid?

"Hey Webb, I know you've been putting this way almost your entire life and I know you've made hundreds of important putts that allowed you get to where you are in the game, but we now say that style of putting is unfair and you have to use a non-anchored putter. Congrats on your U.S. Open victory! Hey, would you mind texting Keegan and passing this along? Thanks; you're a huckleberry."

If they went about it from the equipment side, you could grandfather in all of the players currently performing on the PGA Tour or European Tour who currently use a long putter, or who have won an event using a long putter -- the same way they did for spitball pitchers in Major League Baseball in 1920.

That would be a neat parallel !! 

But, if they go the direction of defining what a stroke is, then you couldn't grandfather in guys who are making an illegal stroke.

There is some precedent for defining the putting stroke more tightly.  When Sam Snead started to get the yips, he went to a putting stroke where he straddled the line of the putt and swung the putter pendulum-style between his legs ... a stroke that was quickly banned by making it illegal to straddle the line of the shot.  Snead then switched to his side-saddle method with a long putter, which they didn't have the heart to ban at the time, or we probably wouldn't be talking about this today.

[Michael Whitaker]

Tom,

Sam Snead used a regular length putter with his side saddle stroke:

[Patrick_Mucci]

It may not matter what kind of equipment you have; nerves are nerves.

Steve,

The physics and mechanics of using the long putter diminish the reliance on certain muscles and nerves, that's why you'll see the pencil grip employed.

Different grips tend to minimize and/or eliminate the yips

[Steve Burrows]

It may not matter what kind of equipment you have; nerves are nerves.

Steve,

The physics and mechanics of using the long putter diminish the reliance on certain muscles and nerves, that's why you'll see the pencil grip employed.

Different grips tend to minimize and/or eliminate the yips

Pat,

Fair enough, Pat.  My point, though, is that the yips can, and do, still happen with the long putter - at the highest level of play and presumably also for a typical golfer in his/her weekly game with his buddies.  The long putter may be helpful, but it is far from infallible.  Surely you must concede that?  Despite the use of "physics and mechanics" that "minimize" the yips, Adam Scott's stroke still did not hold up under the pressure of the moment (of course his long game was also to blame for the collapse).  No putter or putting stroke is likely to overcome (or, to use your word, "eliminate") nerves entirely.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Steve,

There is no magic wand that will eliminate the influence of "nerves", however, the long putter reduces the influence of nerves for many, ergo it's popularity.

Using the long putter is cumbersome and unnatural, yet, it's becoming more popular because of it's ability to ameliorate the influence of nerves.

Scott's 4 finishing bogey's were more a product of his thinking, club selections and ball striking.

When you look at putting statistics, at 5' feet and longer, no one is at 100 %, yet the expectation seems to be that these fellows should make all of those putts.

I thought his club selection off of # 18 indicated that the was playing not to lose rather than trying to win.
I could be wrong on that, but that was my thought when he didn't use a driver.

One mustn't forget that missing a putt is not always caused by a poor stroke.
Many times a misread, misjudging of pace or misalignment is the culprit.

I've always advocated banning the long putter, however, while it's legal, I switched in May, and the result is that I know longer "yip" 1, 2 and 3 footers.  The trade off is that I'm still trying to learn how to putt accurately from off the green, which iwas always good at.

[Ken Moum]

I think the debate to define what is and is not "anchoring" will be very, very interesting.

David, like some rulings I think it will evolve over a very short period of time.

One has to wonder why they outlawed the "paddle" grip, the one Crenshaw used to use.

And, why they were quick to outlaw Sam Snead's croquette like stroke, but not his side saddle stroke.;

I've also never understood why they would allow a caddy to line up the golfer, then mandate that he has to remove himself, immediately before the golfer pulls the trigger.  Once you're aligned, what difference does it make if the caddy stays there or not ?   

;



Pat, the grip rule wasn't aimed at the Grip Rite, it was aimed at a regular grip shaped like Coke bottle. They were afraid that  grips were getting to be  fitted to the hands. The Griprite was collateral damage.

[David_Tepper]

Interesting article in the Guardian. Sam Torrance seems to say he is not anchoring his putter to his body.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/blog/2012/jul/22/padraig-harrington-ernie-els-open-putters

[Jason Thurman]

From reports and comments from Peter Dawson, among others, it's beginning to sound like a rule change is imminent. Some of the "decision makers" have already said that they won't introduce any equipment rules, so any rule will be centered around method of stroke.

I suspect we'll hear in September that anchoring will no longer be allowed. I'm still not sure how you define "anchoring" though.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Ken,

When you consider all of the non-traditional grips currently in use, why wasn't the paddle Grip-rite reinstated ?

[Patrick_Mucci]

First of all, if the long putter stroke reduces reliance on certain muscles and nerves, that must mean that the physics and mechanics of the most common/traditional putting stroke increase the reliance on those same muscles and nerves.

And how do we know that the most common putting stroke, by increasing reliance on those certain muscles and nerves, doesn't provide an unfair competitive advantage?  

By the fact that the trend is away from that stroke at the highest levels.

Let me ask you a question, Pat:  why, after tens of millions of putts all over the world by millions of golfers over more than a century, with no restrictions on their method of stroke (other than no scraping, shoving or spooning) did the traditional putting stroke become so common in the first place?  Why, Pat, why?  

For the simple reason that it was a short version of every other stroke.
Did you ever examine old putters ?
They had more loft than a 1 or 2 iron, and the strokes were semi-swings in many cases.
And the club was easy to carry since it was the shortest club in the bag.

You could ask the same question of the Sand Wedge (1933), the Lob Wedge (1980's), stand up bags, dual strap bags, aluminum shafts, graphite shafts, hollow metal heads, etc,etc..  Why did millions of golfers for more than a century not use them ?
It's an invalid question in the context of the  evolution of equipment.

Why did golfers choose the common/traditional stroke?  

For the simple reason that the long putter hadn't been invented yet.

But, once it had, the use of the traditional stroke diminished and the use of the long putter increased.

Was it because they thought it would hurt their putting?  Did they choose it to hole fewer putts?  Of course not.
They chose the traditional method because there was NO alternative

See, when you break down the argument against the long putter, it all boils down to a completely fallacious argument - that the long putter provides an unfair competitive advantage.  

Your argument is flawed.
It does make putting easier.
It's the transition that is difficult

But the facts belie this argument - the putting stroke that really provides the unfair competitive advantage is the traditional putting stroke.  That's why, through trial and error over a century, most golfers have chosen it.  They certainly didn't choose it because they make fewer putts with it. ...

They chose the traditional method for one reason only...... There was NO alternative

So there is only one conclusion to be drawn from these facts: that the traditional/common putting stroke is the best method for putting.


Anyone who understands anatomy and physics knows that you're wrong.
A putter at 90 degrees, employing a pendulum stroke where gravity and physics insure little in the way of deviation/error is far superior to a hinged stroke at less than 90 degrees

And by the reasoning of the long putter haters here, the traditional putting stroke should therefore be banned!

Results will make the traditional stroke/putter less popular.
I'm seeing younger and younger golfers going to the long putter
The trend is clear and there's a reason for that trend........improved putting results.

[Jim Nelson]

One of the guys reporting from the Open on the Golf Channel said that there were over 40 long putters and belly putters in play this week.  I was surprised at how many are using them.  They have to make a decision now or it will be all over.  I use a long putter and have for years.  When they are banned (it sounds more and more like it), I will switch over to a regular putter without a peep.  Always was a pretty decent putter, but the long putter just felt right and still does.  My back will complain tho.  Hard to practice for very long with a regular putter without it tightening up. 

[Doug Siebert]

I've always advocated banning the long putter, however, while it's legal, I switched in May, and the result is that I know longer "yip" 1, 2 and 3 footers.  The trade off is that I'm still trying to learn how to putt accurately from off the green, which iwas always good at.

Patrick,

If this is a problem, I'm curious if you had considered carrying two putters?  At least on those courses where you are likely to have a lot of putts from off the green, maybe this benefits you more than a fairway wood, long iron or wedge you'd replace.

[Mark Pearce]

Would all of the folks calling for a ban on long or "anchored" putters or putting strokes be content looking Webb Simpson and Keegan Bradley in the eye and telling them that the way of putting whose validity under the Rules that they've never had reason to doubt, and in large part the reason they've been able to be successful in golf, is now invalid?

"Hey Webb, I know you've been putting this way almost your entire life and I know you've made hundreds of important putts that allowed you get to where you are in the game, but we now say that style of putting is unfair and you have to use a non-anchored putter. Congrats on your U.S. Open victory! Hey, would you mind texting Keegan and passing this along? Thanks; you're a huckleberry."

I'd be delighted to have that conversation.  Older players with putting problems I can forgive for succumbing to temptation but young players choosing the long or belly putter?  Contrary to the spirit of the game.  For me the fact that three Majors have been won with these putters is a disgrace and Bradley, Simpson and Els should know that their "wins" should be asterisked in the record books.

[Jason Thurman]

Shivas,

I see your point about how the long putter hasn't caught on, but none of the other equipment you've mentioned required a technique change. I can use the same swing with graphite or steel, persimmon or titanium, and blades or cavity backs. But putting a long putter in play requires a lot of practice and effort.

Of course, maybe that's just further proof that it isnt an advantage since it requires just as much work as any other putting method to be able to use it effectively.

Is there any actual statistical correlation between long/belly putters and putting stats?

[JMEvensky]

If I had to bet,I'd say anchoring will be banned in the Fall.

How would a rule be written to allow long/belly putters but disallow anchoring?

What will be the definition of anchoring?

[JSlonis]

Would all of the folks calling for a ban on long or "anchored" putters or putting strokes be content looking Webb Simpson and Keegan Bradley in the eye and telling them that the way of putting whose validity under the Rules that they've never had reason to doubt, and in large part the reason they've been able to be successful in golf, is now invalid?

"Hey Webb, I know you've been putting this way almost your entire life and I know you've made hundreds of important putts that allowed you get to where you are in the game, but we now say that style of putting is unfair and you have to use a non-anchored putter. Congrats on your U.S. Open victory! Hey, would you mind texting Keegan and passing this along? Thanks; you're a huckleberry."

I'd be delighted to have that conversation.  Older players with putting problems I can forgive for succumbing to temptation but young players choosing the long or belly putter?  Contrary to the spirit of the game.  For me the fact that three Majors have been won with these putters is a disgrace and Bradley, Simpson and Els should know that their "wins" should be asterisked in the record books.

Mark,

Where is this "Spirit of the Game" exactly? What is it?

I thought the "object" of the game was to complete 18 holes in the fewest strokes possible under the rules of golf. I've never finished a round and then added or subtracted shots in accordance of the "Spirit".  I don't care for golfers that take 6 practice swings and 5 hours to play. They should  be banned in regard to my spirit of the game but they aren't.

[Carl Nichols]

The long putter - despite being in the market for 30 years - clearly doesn't, as evidenced by the fact that hardly anybody has taken to it. 

Perhaps I'm not a common golf-club consumer, but my pride simply won't allow me to purchase certain legal clubs, even if they might help might game a little.  I won't use a belly or other long putter; I won't buy an alien wedge; and there are others I can't think of right now but that I just wouldn't buy.  For me, at least, some marginal stroke savings just doesn't matter enough to buy certain equipment.  

[Jason Thurman]

Doesn't the long putter help on short putts but hamper touch on longer putts? I just don't see many guys using the long putter dominating the putting stats.

The strokes gained putting stats on Tour this year: http://www.pgatour.com/r/stats/info/?02564

Furyk (29th) is the highest ranked guy that uses a long/belly putter I recognize, but I don't watch that much golf so I may have missed someone above him.

Then again, Sergio is 16th. This stat may be stupid.

[JSlonis]

Dave,

This discussion group's yapping regarding the long putter and modern equipment reminds me of the old Saturday Night Live Skit...

If it's not Scottish, it's crap!   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bzG_J7RCGS0&feature=related

You'd think 99% of this site used hickories and featheries by the way they talk here. 

[Carl Nichols]

Perhaps I'm not a common golf-club consumer, but my pride simply won't allow me to purchase certain legal clubs, even if they might help might game a little.  I won't use a belly or other long putter; I won't buy an alien wedge; and there are others I can't think of right now but that I just wouldn't buy.  For me, at least, some marginal stroke savings just doesn't matter enough to buy certain equipment.  

What's in your bag, Carl?  Metal woods, cavity backs (and even if you still play blades, I guarantee they're bigger and more forgiving than the Wilson Staffs or whatever you used to play 30 years ago), graphite shafts, composite grips, lob wedges....and perhaps a Scotty Cameron or some other oversized non-blade putter?  I'll bet every single thing in your bag provides a competitive advantage vis-a-vis the clubs you used as a kid...

Absolutely!  All I'm saying is that there just happen to be certain clubs that I'm not willing to put in my bag.  Metal woods with huge heads and graphite shafts? Yup!  Lob wedges?  Yup!  Big-headed putters?  Depends on the head . . . mallet size ok, bigger not gonna happen!  Long putter?  Nope!  Alien?  Nope!

Is there any reason to this?  Probably not -- just my own sense of embarrassment/pride vs. marginal game improvement.  If I knew that I'd have 4 fewer putts per round with a long putter, maybe I'd make a different choice . . . . 

[Michael Whitaker]

If I had to bet,I'd say anchoring will be banned in the Fall.

How would a rule be written to allow long/belly putters but disallow anchoring?

What will be the definition of anchoring?

My guess is the rule will require both ends of the club to move during execution of the stroke. You can't perform a pendulum stroke with a long putter if the grip end is allowed to move. It is the stationary anchoring of the grip end that causes all the rancor.

[JSlonis]

If I had to bet,I'd say anchoring will be banned in the Fall.

How would a rule be written to allow long/belly putters but disallow anchoring?

What will be the definition of anchoring?

My guess is the rule will require both ends of the club to move during execution of the stroke. You can't perform a pendulum stroke with a long putter if the grip end is allowed to move. It is the stationary anchoring of the grip end that causes all the rancor.

I don't think the rule will have any language about having both ends of the club moving.  For example: On a shorter putt, you could take a regular/short putter and just swing your wrists back and forth and make the clubhead move without the grip really going anywhere. It's a goofy example but it's definitely possible.  Nobody for the last 100 years would say that wasn't a stroke.  It's this little stuff that they have to think about with any definition and ruling.

It'll be interesting and tricky for the ruling bodies.  I can hold my long putter with a split grip, left hand on top of the grip and not have the grip or my hand touch my body and putt just fine with it.  It's not anchored to anything other than my hands and remains away from my body ever so slightly. In my view, it's not anchored.

[Jason Thurman]

Michael,

That seems much too difficult to police. Some of those old guys from the 50s and 60s putted with so much wrist action that the butt end of their putters hardly moved, for instance.

I think the definition has to be that no part of the hand or club can be braced against any other part of the body.

[Will MacEwen]

This is going to be great fun to enforce at he amateur level.

[Mark Pearce]

JSlonis,

Just like pornography, you know it when you see it.  I'd also ban 6 practice shots and 5 hour rounds, but I'd start with a club that isn't swung.  For me, all golf shots should be played with both hands together.