Thanksgiving Point, Utah

[John Moore II]

This is a fairly good course with a good bit of design variety. The only real weak point I found was on the Par 3's. While they are all very scenic and great looking, they were basically two sets of twins with different yardages. Two played very much downhill and the other two played basically flat. I feel though that what they lack in actual design substance is more than made up for in the vistas they have. I can honestly say that I think this course has one of the better sets of Par 5's I have played, but in the views and in the strategy (and in some cases, blending the two together very well, doesn't get much better than that, IMO) While I can't say for sure if the course is totally deserving of being ranked by Golfweek as the #1 public course in Utah (its the only one I've played) I can certainly see why some may feel its the best.


Teeshot #1


Second Shot #2


Downhill Par 3 4th


Second Shot on #5


Second shot on 6


7th hole, par 3 across the Jordan River


9th hole, viewed from the tee


10 green from the right side of the fairway


Teeshot on 11, par 5, 678 yards


Teeshot on 13


13 green viewed from left side of fairway, 175 yards out


Hole 17 par 3 downhill, 250 yards


Teeshot on 18


Irrigation head in the middle of one of the greens. There were probably heads like this on 10 or 12 of the holes. Thoughts about having these?


The crew that played. Kalen Braley, Andrew (an old friend of mine), and of course, me, John K Moore

[Garland Bayley]

Did Kalen make you promise not to post any pictures of his cart?
 

[John Moore II]

Garland--Kalen did not take any pictures. But I can't lie, we rode in carts. This is one of those courses that would be not very easy to walk.

[Kalen Braley]

JKM,

Never mind Garland, he has a cart fetish, so we just leave him be. 

Photos look good.  The review I did showed TP in its dormant state.  Now if TP could just do something about keeping ugly mugs like me off the course, I'm sure the place would get better ratings.   

[Bill Satterfield]

When did you and Kalen play?  When I saw you were going to be in the SLC area I was going to see if you wanted to join me at Promontory to play the new Nicklaus course.  I had an open spot since my uncle couldn't make it and I knew Kalen had already played earlier this year.  My wife ended up wanting to go so I figured I better not cross that line.  I played it last Friday from the the tips (8100 yards) and shot an 83.  With the 78.7/155 rating and slope it came out as a 3.1 handicap index.  Pretty wild.

[Garland Bayley]

...Now if TP could just do something about keeping ugly mugs like me off the course, I'm sure the place would get better ratings.   

Don't know about ratings, but the business would skyrocket.
 

[Kalen Braley]

Bill,

He was in town 3.5 weeks ago.  I should have thought to ask if you wanted to come along.

Promontory is indeed a tough beast.  I played it from the 7300 yard tees and that was plenty for me.  Can't even imagine from the tips.  Nice setting though and really like the isolation of the place.

[John Moore II]

Kalen-yeah, looking back, I wish I had taken the time to take a few more pictures of the rest of the holes. Oh well, with my soon to be Ties to the area, I should be able to make it out at least once a year.

[Bill Satterfield]

What's funny is I actually didn't mind the length of Promontory.  It felt manageable to me, but where people will really get their lunch handed to them is on those greens if them keep them running at 9.5 or faster.  The greens were running fast the day I played which made for some near impossible holes to get close to when putting from other spots on the green.  The course is another classic stern test from Mr. Nicklaus; but I kinda like the challenge and subsequent punishment.  Playing well at a difficult course however is very rewarding when you can pull it off.

[Garland Bayley]

John,

There is a convoluted par 3 there that makes you retrace your steps after playing it. It appears it was made the way it was so that the river could guard 3 sides of the green. I maintain it is a fine par 3 for Johnny Miller to play, but a much better option would have been to orient the par 3 so that high handicappers could play up the throat of dry land without having to hit across a penal hazard. Given there would still be water on 3 sides of the green all the risk for going for the gusto would still be there. Furthermore, my configuration could have been worked into a routing that would not require the doubling back on your tracks.

Do you have any thoughts on this?

[John Moore II]

Garland--Yeah, the 7th is kind of a funk in the routing. Like you, I think it was simply put there in order to have another hole on/crossing the river. Its a great setting. I don't think the river is really in play for someone hitting up the left side. Its really not in play at all, I don't think. The only way it could really be in play is for the flag to be back left and the banks shaved. Though I do suppose if you Top the ball, the river is in play. I think the hole is a very good hole. You can play the ground game there, when the course is firm, or a bit firmer than when we played, and you can fly the ball all the way. Plus, the green is huge, its got to be at least 75 yards long, if not deeper. The ONLY problem I have with that hole is the routing. And its really the only issue I have with the routing in general on the entire course.

--And I may be wrong (Kalen might be able to give a for sure answer) but I think the forward tees were on the other side of the river. The second set may have been as well.

[Craig Sweet]

Are those mounds and rolling fairways natural?  I have never seen sprinkler heads in the center of greens....it sort of reminds me of this "mom and pop" golf course here in Montana where "pop" made all the greens square....and then later decided to "round them off" some.  Kind of makes you wonder.

Other wise, Thanksgiving looks like fun!

[John Moore II]

Craig--I'm not sure if they are 'natural' or not. I feel certain that there is some amount of roll and hills near the edge of the river where the course is set. Kalen and I had this same discussion while we were playing. In the picture of hole #1 you can see a flat top hill on the right side of the picture. Thats part of a quarry/mine. By the looks of some of the holes, I figured that some of the golf course property may have been used for that same purpose. I will say this, if they are not natural, they certainly blend in well and look mostly natural from ground level.

[Matt_Ward]

Gents:

I've played TP a few times -- from the photos the course looks ESPECIALLY verdant green. Was it soft as well ?

In regards to the comments on the par-3 holes -- TP does have rather similar shot values when they are held against one another. I particularly liked the par-3 17th because the green, whilevast in size, does have numerous different sections where the pin can be hidden. Nonetheless, the rolling terrain and the green contours were well done by Johnny Miller and more likely Gene Bates -- the "architect" responsible for the course.

The best feature about TP is that there's enough golf course for nearly all types of players. For example, if one plays South Mtn in nearby Draper you'll enocunter a VERY hilly site whereby plenty of shot distortion can occur. You also have plenty of "either or" encounters with lost balls and the like.

In regarsd to the #1 public course rating in UT -- there are a few newer layouts that may challenge that designation. Sand Hollow is John Fought's recent design in Hurricane -- just outside of St. George.

There are also proponents of The Hideout in Monticello.

I'd still hold TP in the top spot because until you get a better overall site with consistent shot values throughout the entire round, TP holds the best option among the available layouts to play in the Beehive State.

[John Moore II]

Matt--It wasn't exactly soft, but it wasn't firm either. I would have ideally liked to have played the course a bit faster, but it was not overly slow. It goes back to that "stickyness" of grass thing I posted on a few weeks ago, as well. The grass does not see to roll as well as the bermuda I am used to.

[Kalen Braley]

JKM and Garland,

I'm pretty sure there is a set of forward tees on the other side of number 7.  Even from the whites it still plays a good 175'ish into the prevailing wind. The greens really are massive out there,  the largest set that I can recall from any course I've ever played, but not sure why they would put the sprinkler in the middle of the green like that.  That being said they were usually on top of a nob or small hill so they rarely get in the way.

Matt,

That was the first time I played the course in summer conditions and I would agree, the course was very green and was a bit wet in spots.  But when the temps are in the upper 90s day after day, and with the dry arrid enviroment losing grass is very easy to do!!

So in short, thats why i usually play there in the winter months when there isn't snow on the ground.  It plays fast and firm on both fairways and greens and really is a lot of fun with all of the contouring.  And the cheap greens far aren't bad either! 

As for public courses in Utah, I put my top 3 at:
1)  TP
2)  South Mountain
3)  The Hideout.

Haven't played the new one down south but hope to get down that way maybe later this year in the fall.

P.S.  Matt, any guesses on JKM being able to walk South Mountain when he's back in town in October?  It'll take an epic effort, so we shall see. 

[Matt_Ward]

JKMoore / Kalen:

I've only played TP when it played really fast and firm and then it really shines.

From the looks of the photos either the wetness has come from man's hands or from the man upstairs. The problem with plenty of courses in arid areas is that far too often man hmself overly waters the place to the point that serious differentiation of shots makes any difference.

Kalen, in regards to walkign South Mtn the only people doing such a thing are those auditioning to be a sherba or a member of the airborne rangers.

South Mountain is unique because of the site but TP offers the more comprehensive test of golf and can really be fair for just abuot all levels of players as I mentioned previously.

[Kalen Braley]

Matt,

I'd agree with your assessments for both TP and South Mountain.

TP is best fast and firm and SM really is unforgiving.  If your not hitting the ball well, be prepared for a rough day.

As for JKM, can't wait to see the kid give it a shot on foot.  I could probably walk the front 9, but that would be it...I'd be done.  But its sure to be fun either way.  Just hope we don't get any early snow that ruins the outing!! 

We got a new nickname for you John....  SherpaJ

[John Moore II]

Kalen, in regards to walkign South Mtn the only people doing such a thing are those auditioning to be a sherba or a member of the airborne rangers.

AIRBORNE RANGERS?? Ahh yes...Kalen, remember what color(S) my bad was?

[Kalen Braley]

Kalen, in regards to walkign South Mtn the only people doing such a thing are those auditioning to be a sherba or a member of the airborne rangers.

AIRBORNE RANGERS?? Ahh yes...Kalen, remember what color(S) my bad was?

Hmm...I can't recall!!   

Sounds like your in good shape then to extract a wedding gift/donation of sorts from yours truly!!

Oh and PS.  In addition to having to carry your bag, you won't be allowed any fluids either!

[John Moore II]

Kalen--My bag was US Army Digital Camo. I'll have to get back with you on whether or not I think I can do it without drinking

[Kalen Braley]

Kalen--My bag was US Army Digital Camo. I'll have to get back with you on whether or not I think I can do it without drinking

Oh we'll get you drinking alright.....but perhaps not the kind of fluids you may have had in mind!!   

P.S.  The bag will fit in perfect.  If anyone asks why your walking the course, you can just show them your bag and tell em you can't get past your masochistic ways!!

[John Moore II]

Kalen--Don't get me drinking that stuff. I won't have time enough to repent prior to Friday.

[Matt_Ward]

Kalen, JKM:

The thing about Utah public golf is that the St. George area likely has the greatest promise in being the top area for quality offerings in this area.

Developing public golf in the mountains (minus say the likes of Soldier Hollow which is at best a slight bit ahead of average) likely will not work because of the short season..

St. George already has a number of top courses and it will be interesting to see how Sand Hollow fares once more people have played it.

[Bill Satterfield]

I like Thanksgiving Point quite a bit and actually find the Par 3s to be one of its stronger suits.  The fourth hole plays quite a bit downhill and begs for a left to right ball flight (194 yards from the tips).  The seventh hole plays pretty much flat and favors a right to left ball flight, in fact that fairway slopes hard enough that it will kick balls that are a bit too far right back toward the green (208 yards from the tips).  I will agree with what is said about the routing being awkward there, but I think it is worth it for the views and setting around Jordan River.  The 15th hole plays slightly uphill from the tips (218 yards) and goes back to favoring a left to right ball flight.  The 17th hole plays downhill and measures out at 250 yards from the back tees.  The hole is fantastic!  It sits out in the Jordan River and has a massive green.  It is the climax shot of the round.  It is difficult to be sure, but the personal excitement of pulling off that shot is great.  The hole doesn't call for a right-to-left or a left-to-right ball flight, it allows you do whatever you have to in order to find the putting surface.  In the end I think the holes offer a nice variety of shots and clubs selections and are very memorable.