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Andy Troeger

Re: Rock Creek Cattle Company
« Reply #125 on: March 18, 2010, 07:40:33 PM »
Matt,

One question...1 course to play every day for the rest of your life- RCCC or Kingsley?

Not sure how Matt will respond, but in my opinion Kingsley is great (USA Top 50 give or take) and Rock Creek is in that top stratosphere that are truly exceptional (USA Top 15). RCCC is the best modern course that I've seen, by a nose over The Golf Club.

Matt_Ward

Re: Rock Creek Cattle Company
« Reply #126 on: March 19, 2010, 10:14:16 AM »
Sean:

Get over it -- I'll beat the drum as long as I care to do so.

When you have yearly ratings -- any mag should be on top of things in real time. The issue is serving readers -- not placating raters.

The simple solution is to spread ratings out to either or 2 or 3 year period but it appears Golfweek wishes to use yearly ratings (in a host of categories) as an advertising draw.

Jud:

Tough call -- but I give the edge to Rock Creek -- of all the Doak courses I have played -- the best collection of par-4 holes are there at Rock Creek. My main concern has always been the finale -- good hole but far from the type of closer that would really push the course even further up. Nonetheless, a "must play" for any architectural lover.

JESII

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Rock Creek Cattle Company
« Reply #127 on: March 19, 2010, 11:27:40 AM »
I hate getting into a ratings thread...probably as much as the rest of you feel about a Merion thread...

But Matt, how would you feel if GW were on a 3 year cycle as you've proposed recently and 2010 was the year and still not enough people made it to RCCC? Hell, even if 2009 were the year, it would have been certain not enough people would have gotten there...the earliest the course would make a list would be 2012...why so amazed about a one year wait?

I stand by the value of having a highly traveled individual start with a list previously established and adding and deleting based on their own experiences from the prior year or two...should give the chance to include rationale of that person to generate conversation...much as it happens here on occassion.


Matt_Ward

Re: Rock Creek Cattle Company
« Reply #128 on: March 19, 2010, 11:48:22 AM »
Jim:

The simple solution is create a process that works well.

In terms of courses being rated overall -- if such a pub had a three-year period, using your example, if such an article appeared in 2010  -- it could easily state in such an article that courses that opened in 2009 and even 2010 would not be eligible until the next ratings -- say in 2013. That would provide sufficient time and clearly it would outline the realities so many have chimed in about.

Jim, Golfweek chooses -- that's they key word "chooses" -- to have a yearly rating process. Likely it's tied to other considerations such as developing companion revenue streams for such efforts. That's fine. When you rate each year then you should be up-to-date in real time. When a magazine promotes itself as a bastion for "serious golfers only" -- then to miss out the qualities of a Rock Creek astounds me given how other "new" courses are so quickly assessed. A magazine's basic mission is to its readers -- not to its panel because of their "issues" in making appropriate travel plans to places that have had plenty of pre-buzz in the pipeline.

By the way -- watch how fast a place like Old Macdonald is rated. If such travel plans are a burden then the situation can be rectified in having people who can handle what's needed -- believe me -- plenty of people would easily replace those who are so handicapped.

The location of Rock Creek is a smoke screen excuse. Plenty of other courses have remote locations and have been assessed in a timely manner.

Dave:

Let's be a bit more clearer OK.

I simply acknowledged the bureaucratic mechanisms in place. You didn't see me agree with such a process did you?

Nothing "rings hollow" amigo -- here's the deal when a mag decides to go with yearly ratings it should then be able to provide such info on a real time basis. The internal workings of its elite corps of people is an internal self-created item that is mechanical in nature and undercuts the idea that the mag is on top of all such matters.

End of story.

p.s. By the way -- there is no "supposed omission" -- there actually is. ;)

One other thing -- there are scores of other courses that have been around for quite some time and still don't get rated -- see Kingsley among GD's top 100 listings. The issue is far beyond location matters.

Pete_Pittock

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Rock Creek Cattle Company
« Reply #129 on: August 07, 2010, 11:19:30 PM »
Friday was finally my turn, and the trip detour between Portland and Sagebush was time well spent. Off around 8:30 to start my double round, a little too early because we played through the crew setting new pins and mowing greens. My shepherd-forecaddie Kyle mentioned new changes to the course greens. The second green has been enlarged at the right front. The mound on the 4th green (left middle) has been re-graded and softened and a mound on the 9th green had the same surgery done.

Ryan Farrow

Re: Rock Creek Cattle Company
« Reply #130 on: August 08, 2010, 12:16:23 AM »
Pete, the enlarging of the green on #2 Front Right was done before the course was even finished..... So they softened 2 slopes? I guess thats the same as re-doing all of the greens.....  ;D

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Re: Rock Creek Cattle Company
« Reply #131 on: August 08, 2010, 09:02:44 AM »
Ryan:

Eric Iverson actually did that little bit of work last year, at Mr. Foley's request.

Haven't heard much of anything from Montana this season, but I am headed up there next week, with my son, just to relax for a few days.  I am hoping to play golf a couple of times and find out if there's anything else they would like to address.  Eric actually had a couple of suggestions from his last visit (though not about greens).

Pete_Pittock

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Rock Creek Cattle Company
« Reply #132 on: August 08, 2010, 10:28:22 AM »
Tom,
 Fifteen doesn't need any changes. It kicked my butt(boy :-\) both times from 20 yds short and 40 yds short. One of my favorite holes.
 Oh, they widened the landing area on the right side of 18.
The experience of playing the greens at two different speeds on the same day was superb

Ryan Farrow

Re: Rock Creek Cattle Company
« Reply #133 on: August 08, 2010, 12:04:03 PM »
Ryan:

Eric Iverson actually did that little bit of work last year, at Mr. Foley's request.

Haven't heard much of anything from Montana this season, but I am headed up there next week, with my son, just to relax for a few days.  I am hoping to play golf a couple of times and find out if there's anything else they would like to address.  Eric actually had a couple of suggestions from his last visit (though not about greens).

Tom, did you guys expand it twice? I distinctly remember helping core out the new greens surface and working on the gravel / sand layers.  ???

Any talk about a complete re-do of 18 to appease Matt Ward?

I'd also love to know if all of that bunker drainage from Isaac is keeping the bunker slopes from washing out!



Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Re: Rock Creek Cattle Company
« Reply #134 on: August 08, 2010, 02:34:06 PM »
Ryan:

No, you were correct about #2 green ... that work was done before the course opened to begin with.  It was the work on #4 and #9 that Eric did last year.

I will ask Isaac about the bunker drainage since he is now back as the superintendent ... Mat Dunmyer left to go back to California at the start of last year.

I don't think we will be completely rebuilding #18, however we may build a new tee to get everyone to play it up a bit further, and bring the green more into range in two shots (for those not playing the back tee).

DMoriarty

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Rock Creek Cattle Company
« Reply #135 on: August 09, 2010, 01:55:27 AM »
Tom, 

As usual Shivas doesn't know what the hell he is talking about.  The idea of moving everyone up a bit on that hole sounds interesting to me.   Up means down on that hole, and this would strip away a bit of the mental security blanket of an elevated tee.  A lower perspective might bring that first hill more into the line of site creating a sense of a more uphill tee shot.   Short hitters still won't be able to get there, but will face more interesting choices on the layup.   Longer hitters who think they might reach will have to choose between challenging the left side for a better approach angle, or settling for more difficult approach from the right side. 

Plus, Shivas just doesn't want short hitters to be able to get there into two because he likes to feel special.
Golf history can be quite interesting if you just let your favorite legends go and allow the truth to take you where it will.
--Tom MacWood (1958-2012)

Jim Franklin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Rock Creek Cattle Company
« Reply #136 on: August 09, 2010, 10:57:45 AM »
I agree with Shivas (again :o). I think the optical illusion bunker would be a great addition.
Mr Hurricane

George Pazin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Rock Creek Cattle Company
« Reply #137 on: August 09, 2010, 11:12:16 AM »
Apologies if this has been covered before, but I don't care to read through all the posts again: What is the elevation for RCCC?
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

Phil McDade

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Rock Creek Cattle Company
« Reply #138 on: August 09, 2010, 11:37:33 AM »
Apologies if this has been covered before, but I don't care to read through all the posts again: What is the elevation for RCCC?

George:

Deer Lodge is listed at 4,567 ft. above sea level.

For comparison, Holyoke, CO (Ballyneal) is at 3,750 ft., and Mullen, Neb. (Sand Hills) is 3,215 ft.


George Pazin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Rock Creek Cattle Company
« Reply #139 on: August 09, 2010, 11:39:28 AM »
Thanks, Phil.
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

DMoriarty

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Rock Creek Cattle Company
« Reply #140 on: August 09, 2010, 12:30:46 PM »
Yeah, sure, whatever you say, Dave...   ???

I feel really special hitting 6 irons into yet another artificially short par 5 designed to make guys who can't (and shouldn't be able to) reach a par 5 in two feel special about themselves....  ::)

The short-but-tricky par 5 is one thing.  The short-solely-for-the-sake-of-short par 5, which is what this would be, is quite another....


Shivas,  I was joking about your feeling special.  I figured if there was still one guy left who knew when I was messing around you'd have been the one.

It'd have to be pretty short for me to be able to reach it, and even then it'd probably make little sense to try. 

What did you hit into the 18th at Rock Creek and in what wind?

How would you feel about the hole if it was a 500 yard par 4?  
« Last Edit: August 09, 2010, 12:32:17 PM by DMoriarty »
Golf history can be quite interesting if you just let your favorite legends go and allow the truth to take you where it will.
--Tom MacWood (1958-2012)

Tony Weiler

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Rock Creek Cattle Company
« Reply #141 on: June 08, 2011, 12:41:41 PM »
I'm horrible at search.  Can someone like other threads on Rock Creek, including some with pics?  Thanks. 

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Rock Creek Cattle Company
« Reply #142 on: June 08, 2011, 12:55:45 PM »
Tony,

This thread has the most pics you're probably going to find on RCCC in one place.  I don't think anyone has ever posted up all the holes 1-18 on a thread before.

Jim Franklin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Rock Creek Cattle Company
« Reply #143 on: June 08, 2011, 01:22:23 PM »
Maybe andy troeger can post some more pics.
Mr Hurricane

Tony Weiler

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Rock Creek Cattle Company
« Reply #144 on: June 08, 2011, 02:28:20 PM »
I guess I have an assignment for next week.   ;)

Peter Ferlicca

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Rock Creek Cattle Company
« Reply #145 on: June 08, 2011, 02:34:38 PM »
If you give me a couple hours, I am still at work.  Once I get home and transfer the pictures over I can post holes 1-18 up.  One of the most fun golf courses I have ever played.

Adam Clayman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Rock Creek Cattle Company
« Reply #146 on: June 12, 2011, 09:44:00 PM »
Imn curious about this illusion bunker on 18. Does the ground allow for a bunker? What Doak courses can you just plop a bunker on, 40 yards short? This isn't Pebble Beach, is it? ;)
"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

Andy Troeger

Re: Rock Creek Cattle Company
« Reply #147 on: June 12, 2011, 09:55:23 PM »
Maybe andy troeger can post some more pics.

Oops...didn't see this until now. I think Peter and Kalen pretty well covered the photos on the other thread, but if there's anything specific I can see what I've got. I've had problems posting pics the last couple times I've tried but can always e-mail them if necessary.