[JWinick]

Tom,

It's probably a combination of good routing and a coincidence.   But, these older clubs were probably built prior to the popularity/existence of practice ranges.   

But, if you can make the range closer to the 1st tee without compromising the architecture, I'm for it.   Question: does a golf course lose points because you're a 5-minute walk away?  Is it a factor in course ratings?  Or, is a practice range not considered part of the golf course experience?  It doesn't bother me, but it is nice to hit a few balls on the range and than tee right off.   

[Ken Moum]

Has anybody noticed yet that at five of the best courses you could name -- Pine Valley, Merion, Pebble Beach, Sand Hills, and Pacific Dunes -- the practice range is nowhere near the clubhouse?

Do you think that's a coincidence, or do you think it's a deliberate choice made in the routing process?

More good routings are ruined by the insistence on having a big range adjacent to the clubhouse than by anything else.

Given that the first three were built when practice ranges were almost unheard of, I don't think you can say it's caused by anything other than that.

But I have no doubt that you are correct about ruined routings. It's got to be a little like how architects (non-GCA) feel about the garages. Can you imagine trying to design a great house around the requirement that there be several 9-foot wide garage doors with easy access to the street?

Like garage doors on the front of a beautiful house, a practice range is an eyesore on the countenance of a course. I hadn't thought about it before, but think about how often you have to pass by the darned thing as you approach the clubhouse for the first time. (Magnolia Lane goes right through the middle of one!)

Ken

[Tom_Doak]

JWinick:  Making the range close to the first tee IS a compromise, of sorts.  Sometimes it will work out well, but probably 75% of the time it really doesn't, and you start off behind the 8-ball.  The fact that more architects came up with great routings in the days before a range was mandatory is not a coincidence at all, in my mind.  And, I don't see how it could be much of a factor in the rankings of courses, when you look at the rankings of Pine Valley, Cypress Point (range proximate but not adequate), Merion et al.

kmoum:  The garage is an excellent analogy.  Does Fallingwater have a garage?  (I've never been there, sadly.)  Did Monticello?  Do many of the great old houses we admire architecturally have garages?  Likely many of them were built before garages were mandatory.

[jeffwarne]

Friar's Head

[Rich Goodale]

Dornoch's must be a mile away, but who is stupid enough to waste valuable craic time practising before a round there?

[Tim Bert]

Has anybody noticed yet that at five of the best courses you could name -- Pine Valley, Merion, Pebble Beach, Sand Hills, and Pacific Dunes -- the practice range is nowhere near the clubhouse?

Do you think that's a coincidence, or do you think it's a deliberate choice made in the routing process?

More good routings are ruined by the insistence on having a big range adjacent to the clubhouse than by anything else.

Really?  More so than housing or environmental requirements or other factors?  Your point is well taken, but I wonder if you are speaking in hyperbole.

[Lester George]

DuPont must be a mile+ and you are just as well to drive your car unless you want to ride a cart through the Nemours Course.

Lester

[Rich Brittingham]

The Cascades Course at The Homestead is a good shuttle bus ride away. 

[John Foley]

Leatherstocking. Range is down the road across from the 10th green.

[TEPaul]

Tom Doak said:

"Has anybody noticed yet that at five of the best courses you could name -- Pine Valley, Merion, Pebble Beach, Sand Hills, and Pacific Dunes -- the practice range is nowhere near the clubhouse?
Do you think that's a coincidence, or do you think it's a deliberate choice made in the routing process?"


TomD:

With the older courses you just mentioned I don't think it was either. Back in those early days practice ranges were generally not even considered (out of thought, out of mind, so to speak. ).

The reason is pretty obvious----eg back in that day the idea of club "practice balls" had basically never even been thought of.

At a club like mine (GMGC) up until the early 1960s if someone playing in the morning wanted to hit some practice shots they would send their caddie down into the 18th fairway and hit the balls in their bag at him.

My Dad was one of those guys who transitioned through those times. Even when Piping Rock got club practice balls he still used his own. He had a bunch of bags of his own practice balls that he'd taken out of play (it didn't hurt that he worked for Spalding though ).

My brother and I used to go out with him by car out to the far end of the practice range at Piping Rock which had been two polo fields and shag balls for him with first basemen's mitts. Sometimes we'd even try to catch his drives on the fly but you sure as shootin' had to catch it up in the netting----anything lower than that was a "Super Ouch" which would generally send us to the turf shaking our hand in pain.   

Back in that early day probably only the good golfers did much dedicated practicing that way anyway. I'll also tell you it is really a lost experience now shagging practice balls for a good golfer. I realize those balls and clubs back then could "work" the ball way more than they do today but it was pretty amazing standing on the other end of golf shots of a good player like that and watching him curve the ball right to left and left to right at you and high and low too. Most of the time I didn't even have to take more than a single step or two. Pretty amazing to remember that now.

[TEPaul]

My candidate for the range farthest from the first tee would be something like Pebble Beach's range from Sankaty Head's first tee. Is there any other course in the world where you have to take a plane ride from the practice range to the first tee?

[Brad Tufts]

My first two thoughts were taken...Wintonbury and Leatherstocking.

But I have two more...my home course of Tedesco...a 5-7m cart ride...it's about 900 yards from the clubhouse and crosses a busy street.

Captains on the Cape...you have to drive, and can't take a cart there.

[John Moore II]

Has anybody noticed yet that at five of the best courses you could name -- Pine Valley, Merion, Pebble Beach, Sand Hills, and Pacific Dunes -- the practice range is nowhere near the clubhouse?

Do you think that's a coincidence, or do you think it's a deliberate choice made in the routing process?

More good routings are ruined by the insistence on having a big range adjacent to the clubhouse than by anything else.

Tom--since you mention Pacific Dunes, I have to ask...Was your choice as Pac Dunes coincidence or did you purposefully put the range a fair distance away?

[JohnV]

Philadelphia Country Club's range is a long way out near #15.  We had shuttle buses back and forth during the Women's Am in 2003.

[TEPaul]

JohnV:

That's not really their range (some people use it very sparingly). Their main range is right next to the 1st and 10th tee. Unfortunately, it's too short and has a massive net on the far end. That may've been an original range because the 15th hole was originally the 1st. The clubhouse was immediately to the right of the 15th tee. It's now the maintenance facility.

[Kalen Braley]

Have we come to any kind of consensus?

CPC has the range literally right next to the 1st tee.  PBs range is aways away. On the flip side, I've play dog tracks with ranges both nearby and far away.

I don't think there are any logical conlusions as to how good a course is based on how far the 1st tee is from the range.

Lets talk about courses with ponds and floaters for a range.  Whats the best course you've played that uses floaters?

The coolest one for me hands down is the Couer D' Alene resort in Northern Idaho.  You hit balls into the lake with a view that is 2nd to none...great setup!

[JWinick]

I would always prefer to not compromise on the quality of the golf course for a proximate driving range.   I suppose it's a question of how far one has to travel.   I love a great practice facility.   Is that part of the golf experience?  Do you consider the practice facility when evaluating a golf course?   Do your clients make it a priority?   

JWinick:  Making the range close to the first tee IS a compromise, of sorts.  Sometimes it will work out well, but probably 75% of the time it really doesn't, and you start off behind the 8-ball.  The fact that more architects came up with great routings in the days before a range was mandatory is not a coincidence at all, in my mind.  And, I don't see how it could be much of a factor in the rankings of courses, when you look at the rankings of Pine Valley, Cypress Point (range proximate but not adequate), Merion et al.

kmoum:  The garage is an excellent analogy.  Does Fallingwater have a garage?  (I've never been there, sadly.)  Did Monticello?  Do many of the great old houses we admire architecturally have garages?  Likely many of them were built before garages were mandatory.

[Carl Rogers]

Tom et al,

Fallingwater intailly did not have a garage, but a guest house located up the hill with garage was added in the 50's as well as a real neat covered circular stair with a terraced cantilevered roof down to the main house.  The upper entrance comes in to the home on the third floor.

In the pictures, you see of the house, the bridge is for the automobile and the pedestrian.  The 'driveway' is a very very claustrophobic experience (between the hill and house) and acts as a dramatic contrast to the internal spaces and view from the terraces.

Yes, you all should see it .... fall or spring is best.

Monticello had the stables a good distance away and slightly over a hill probably to reduce the smell problem at the main house if nothing else.

[John Moore II]

Played Pinehurst #7 today (photo essay to come perhaps) and the range there was probably 1/2 mile from the 1st tee. And that was not the only odd-ball in the routing of the course.

[Joey Smith]

Ballyneal's range is a pretty good ways over by #18, which is bit away from #1 tee.  Still did not take away from how good the place was.

The Ledges in Huntsville, Alabama.  But the practice green turns into the first tee...pretty cool.

js

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