David,
You wrote, "Bahto wrote: "Soon after the official opening of the course for play, the old hotel burned to the ground." The hotel fire was in 1909, was it not? The blow out occurred 1907-1908. The course opened for general play in 1909, at least briefly before the fire. According to Bahto..."
Unfortunately, both you & George are wrong.
This was written by Charles Blair McDonald and is dated January 4th, 1912. I am assuming that he is a credible enough witness for all when it comes to NGLA. "The Links were formally opened on Saturday, September 16th, 1911."
This is taken from the booklet he prepared and sent to all the members and that was titled "National Golf Links of America, Statement of Charles Blair McDonald." The quote above cam be found on p.20 par. 1 in the section titled "Formal Opening."
It opened for play in 1911...
Phillip,
Thanks for actually putting something of substance up on this issue. If Macdonald said that the "formal opening" was in 1911, then I am sure that the "formal opening" was. In fact I think I point out that the clubhouse was formally opened and the first invitational tournament held in 1911. But I said that, according to Bahto, they were open for general play in 1909, at least until the hotel burned down. I do not think Macdonald's letter is inconsistent with this at all, especially given that they had no clubhouse whatsoever.
Indeed, Bahto had apparently considered the letter you cite. From Bahto's book:
". . . the National Golf Links of America finally opened to membership play in 1910. . . . The formal opening of the course was officially celebrated in 1911."
In Macdonald's book he wrote that, while it was rough, they were playing the course ("from the regular tees") in 1909. In 1910, the conditions are described as better than many courses. In the book he referred to the opening in 1911 as the formal opening of the clubhouse. Keep in mind that this was a National Club, with members scattered. How could they have had a formal opening without any sort of clubhouse whatsoever. Do you think Shinnecock would have lent them theirs?
But the bottom line is that
THE FORMAL OPENING DATE MAKES NO DIFFERENCE. Cirba disingenuously uses the this formal opening date of the club as the beginning of the course, as if no one was allowed to see it before they threw open their doors of the clubhouse and had an official invitational tournament. This is absolutely asinine. The course was world renown in 1910. The most famous course in America by far. Behr, Travis, Horace Hutchinson, Darwin, had all played it. Who hadn't?
Mike, Your position is absolutely foolish, and I think you know that. If you don't know it, then pull up some of the literature from the time on NGLA, and tell me which course in the US was more known and respected by Fall of 1910. But I am done with you on this issue. As far as I am concerned you are just further undercutting your own credibility, as if there was any left to undercut.
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Are you two going to just continue to say that endlessly or is either of you EVER going to offer some evidence of Campbell and Myopia? The club itself says they don't know anything about it and apparently never have and it sure isn't as if they don't know a ton of detail about their history. Why in the world is anyone going to take the word of two guys who've never even been there? At least produce the Boston Globe article or whatever it is that says something to that effect even if it's likely wrong and at least let the club evaluate it and consider it. What kind of game playing is all this anyway?
Tom Paul. So long as you are involved the club will have to do without.
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If Willie Campbell was good enough that other prestigious clubs (Merion for example) were bringing him in to design their courses, would the clubs where he was employed entirely ignore his expertise? Hard to believe.
Hey lackey of Tom MacWood, who shall remain nameless, your mentor insists that there were two Willie Campbells and the Boston Willie didn't do any work in Philadelphia. He says the Philadelphia Willie worked on Merion and other courses around here. I have never seen proof of MacWood's two Willies, but you better check with your peerless leader on that.
Hey William Flynn Sycophant, is this really all you got? Ridiculing me based on what Tom MacWood taught you about Merion's early history? You, the self-proclaimed Merion expert, has
absolutely no idea whether MacWood is correct or not, which means you have no idea who designed Merion's first course. Yet you have the audacity to ridicule me on this subject.
This is so sad. I'd feel bad for you, but I've gotten to know you a bit.
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Flynn's local designs and redesigns total 19 and include
Merion East
Whaaaa?? Say it ain't so?? You claim that William Flynn redesigned
Merion East? That is SICK. Let me guess . . . he drafted the planned changes, therefore he gets the credit?? No wonder you will not let anyone who knows better read your 2000 page Flynn Love Letter.
At least now I understand why you are so protective and dishonest about the East's beginnings. You've already stolen all the credit Wilson deserves for what happened later! And they say I am the one disrespectful of Wilson and Merion's history. Unbelievable.
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Peter,
For what it is worth, while I try to take them at face value, I roll my eyes whenever you post. You claim to be an innocent bystander and impartial, but I cannot not think of a single post where you have not been lock-step with Paul. I mean really, through all these discussions, has TEPaul been in-the-right every time? If you want to skip along sniffing TEPaul's garbage as if it were roses, that is your prerogative. But do not feign surprise when called upon it. Thanks.