Favorite features at Prairie Dunes?

[Ran Morrissett]

With the Women's Open coming on TV in a few hours, I thought we should keep a running tally of favorite features/holes/playing aspects over the next four days.

Hopefully, such an undertaking will help us gain a greater understanding and appreciation of the Maxwells and their approach to architecture.

Cheers,

[Tom MacWood (Guest)]

I know that many look down a bit on the non-original nine and I know David Eger is no fan of this hole -- but I really like the 14th. The tee shot, the approach and the green were all very interesting to me and I'm looking foward to watching the women play the hole.

I'll say the 14th green with its four foot hump in the middle.

[Byron Hazard]

Real hazards, yucca in bunkers, undulating lies in fairways, mounds and rolls on greens, can't wait for the wind.

[brad_miller]

One of the best TV shots should be from the tee on #2, but today all ESPN showed was from in back of the tee

[GeoffreyC]

The topography of the property framed by natural grasses.  

It looks like a great walk.

[Ran Morrissett]

Regarding the 10th hole, I have never seen so many balls  land on a green only to finish elsewhere - very interesting too to watch the effect that such a result has on the players.

Press's 16th hole shined yesterday thanks to the diagonal nature of the green and the left to right slope at the green - a very underrated hole that is fun to watch how the players use the greenside terrain. GREAT to see a hole/playing conditions that favor the ground game.

Thanks in part to the approaches into 12-14 pointing in  different directions, these sub-390 yard holes aren't showng ANY mercy on the players. In fact, I think Miller said the 13th was one of the 3 or 4 toughest holes yesterday. And, Tom, I see the 14th has a very hard to find back hole location today that will nail the greedy.

Cheers,

[Peter_Herreid]

No 2-D image can do that 14th green justice, but I tried here from the 15th fairway...


My favorite feature(s) are the incredible degree of slopes contained in such small greens.  Imagine some of your typical modern greens and them compress them in on all sideswhile maintaining some of the severe slopes.  I'm hoping this will come across somewhat on TV...

#17 is one of the larger greens, this is taken from back right to front left

[johnk]

Favorite feature: the greens - basically all of the
ones I've seen.  People say they are very slopey, and
I believe it - because they actually look extremely slopey
on TV - far more than ANGC.

Other than that, the Par-3s are all just really cool
to watch.  The course must be incredible in person
because each of these holes looks awesome on TV,
and that is very rare!

So Ran, is there any question about whether PD or
Muirfield will look better on TV?  Muirfield may generate
many interesting plays, but I don't think I've ever
seen a course as attractive and smart as PD look as good
as it does on TV.  

Overall, I think many great courses look indifferent or
incomprehensible on TV - i.e. TOC.

[TEPaul]

I agree, those greens have to be the highlight and my favorite feature of the course! I've never been to the course and it's true green contour and slope is hard to pick up on television but you can see plenty of it on those greens on TV.

More confirmation to me on my opinion that P. Maxwell's greens are the enduringly best in all of golf! I would love to spend a minimum of about 10-15 minutes on any Maxwell green just to analyze the pinnable spots on his greens and those that aren't all over his greens and how beautifully all those spots transition so naturally from that which isn't to that which is! One would even think with all of that his greens would logically have to be quite large but from even at my own course I know that doesn't have to be true! They can actually be very small and do the same thing really well!

Also the firmness of the greens today (not speaking of the speeds but the firmness) is just about perfect (no pitch marks only denting, if even that) in the context of the "ideal maintenance meld" with the speed of the course "through the green" which produces that fineline decision making of whether to fly the ball to the green or run it in!

For what's the "ideal maintenance meld" Prarie Dunes today is just about 100% it!

[brad_miller]

Peter, those are great pics, you do a better job than Ran, any more to add?  The greens really are something like no other. I think it was Peter that hit the nail on the head a few posts back.

[Matt_Cohn]

I can't wait until they use the front pin on #17! Keep an eye out for it. BTW I mean the very, very front.

[Mark_Fine]

I love playing Prairie Dunes as it is one of my all time favorites.  Golf doesn't get much better in this country for sure.  It's like Shinnecock Hills in the mid-west.

Love the whole package architecture wise.  This week I love the firm greens and approaches.  Only complaint I have is on TV it looks too green.  
Mark

[Bruceski]

I noticed too that Prarie Dunes looks greener on TV than many of the photos I've seen.

Shamelessly, NBC "greenifies" all their TV images of golf. If a tournament were being played on a mud course, NBC would find a way to make it look green.

[Jeff_Brauer]

Probably not quite what Ran intended, but I do know that most clubs in the area have sent crews up to help with maintenance for the week.  A modern version of a good old fashioned "barn raising" out on the plains.

Great sense of community by the supers in that area.  I know that most tournaments get similar help, but the courses are much farther away in this instance than they were at Bethpage!

[brad_miller]

Thought it looked a little to green also, but still seems to be playing firm

[Ran Morrissett]

How about that right swale run-off on the 12th green?! Seeing Annika's and Juli's miss the green from one yard away was amazing - did their shot selection (semi-flop) surprise anyone else? What a great, great hole location.

[TEPaul]

I've really got to get out there to study those P. Maxwell greens but which ones are Perry's and which are Press's and what's the difference between the greens of father and son in the opinions of those that know the course? Is there any real differences in the greens of father and son?

It seems like the approaching and putting is really something else on those PD greens in getting the ball to transition from one pinnable area to another across or around those Maxwell rolls, ridges, humps and bumps. But for all their movement they really do look so much more natural than most modern day greens that have severe tiers and bizarre shapes and such.

What I wasn't ready for though is how easily a ball can just slip off various sides of those putting surfaces! But I guess if you think about it many if not most of those interior rolls, ridges, humps and bumps must be well above most of the sides (for drainage at least) so that would be a natural occurence.

[Ran Morrissett]

Tom,

The five wildest greens (1, 2, 8, 10, 17) belong to the father but Press's greens have tons of appealing character as well, especially 12 and 14, and it is largely the overall excellence of the greens that gives the 18 holes a unified feel.

Plus, as you say, Press clearly learned from his father to follow nature's lead. Wasn't it Max Behr who said that links golf is the highest form because evidence of man's handiwork is at a minimum?

Prairie Dunes epitomizes that philosophy.

Cheers,

[TEPaul]

Ran:

True enough about Max Behr but maybe it's better not to mention his name--Pat Mucci might read this and think that any discussion of Prarie Dunes might then be irrelevant rhetoric because it actually conforms quite naturally to its site--and of course that's not necessary to Pat! Either that or else he'll tell us we're all Fazio bashers if Wynn and Fazio tried to IDENTICALLY recreate PD in the Nevada desert!

[BV]

J. Press built some wild slope-y greens on his own, but not many in fact none that I have ever seen with "poofs".

[TEPaul]

BV:

You don't know what a Maxwell "poof" is. Only I know what a Maxwell "poof" is. Matter of fact Bill Coore who invented the term forgot what a Maxwell "poof" is, but recently I reminded him what a Maxwell "poof" is so now he remembers what a Maxwell "poof" is! There's actually a very nice Maxwell "poof"  at PVGC but you'll never find it because you don't know what a Maxwell "poof" is!

Perry Maxwell knew what a Maxwell "poof" was but he's dead and he may have called it something else but it looks so much like a "poof" chances are he called it that too. Of course the "Forgotten Man" who actually built all Maxwell's "poofs" knew what they were but eveyone forgot who he was!

[Poofy Maxwell]

My POOFS

[TEPaul]

redanman:

Shows what you don't know! #9 PVGC left is not covered with "poofs"! There's actually only one really good "poof" on #9 left! Maxwell was not much different than the really good comdienne--he tended not to repeat himself all the time!

Redanman has just made me realize what feature is my absolute favorite at Prarie Dunes! It's the great Maxwell "poofs"! I realize this now although redanman has no idea at all what a "poof" is!

[brad_miller]

Natural setting and landforms, F&F conditions, wonderful greens, plenty of wind, (just not this past weekend), many ways to play shots and attitude of golf first all else second.

[A_Clay_Man]

Here's something I noticed on Friday's coverage. I believe it was on the 18th hole. There is a bunker that is so far left of the green that the crowd started to fill in between it and the greenside bunker.

My thoughts ranged from- even Maxwell built some eye candy, to, I wonder if the narrowness of the fairways wasn't the original intent. Otherwise why would that bunker be there?

Anybody else notice it too?