[Melvyn Morrow]

Satisfied with the response from UK Club Secretaries?

I ask because I have had a mixed response over the last few years. In fact I would say that if I e-mailed them I would be lucky if I received a reply of 50%.

As the first port of call when contacting a club, I would have expected a fast and prompt service, either through their own On Line e-mail service (i.e. info@) or direct e-mail service. However, as mentioned above I am shocked and surprised at the numbers that don’t have the courtesy to respond.

Have any of you encountered similar experiences?  Also any suggestions that may make your life easier in obtaining info from the UK clubs?

I would just like to put on record that many of the 50% that did respond did so very quickly and with the details I needed. 

[Brent Hutto]

I'd say your 50% mark more or less agrees with my top-of-the-head recollection. I've found that a phone call will get someone on the first or second attempt almost every time. E-mail will either get an immediate or overnight response (something like half the time) or else they will not respond no matter how many times I attempt it.

So my protocol is generally to send an E-mail inquiry and if I haven't heard back by the next morning I make a phone call. I'm guessing some of them never, ever check the mail at the address given on their web page. But as long as they answer the phone I don't mind much. And as you say they are generally very efficient once you actually make contact one way or the other.

[Melvyn Morrow]

Brent

Alas, no. (efficient)

But the ones that respond within the hour tend to be good. For the most part I am disappointed. The phone calls are just as much fun at times, again I tend to phone the Pro Shop if I want to speak to someone. The service - if you can call it a service it is overall poor, which surprises me.

[Brent Hutto]

Well, keep in mind that my sampling of UK clubs is very limited. As far as I can recall, this is pretty close to the complete list...

Walton Heath
Royal Cinque Ports
Princes (inquiry only, did not visit)
The Addington (inquiry only, did not visit)

Formby
Royal Birkdale

Royal Dornoch
Brora
Pitlochry
Cruden Bay (inquiry only, did not visit)
Fortrose & Rosemarkie (inquiry only, did not visit)

The clubs I've actually ended up visiting tend to be ones that get a lot of overseas visitors like myself. I'm not sure my experience would translate to a wider range of clubs. I'm sure there's at least one or two others at which I've inquired but not visited.

[Ken Moum]

Three years ago I began contacting courses for a 2006 trip, they included:

Cruden Bay
Nairn
Dornoch
Brora
Boat of Garten
St Andrews
Lundin
N. Berwick

I agree with Brent, about half of them were responsive.

In the end, I got tee times everywhere I asked, but it wasn't always a simple process. Of course it was easier than trying to get on a similarly ranked set of courses here in the USA.

Ken

[Melvyn Morrow]

Brent

This year alone my count is over the 100 mark, so to say 50% I am talking over 50 Clubs which is rather bad, in fact very, very poor. As I said phone calls are also frustrating and I am forced to check with the Pro Shop to confirm telephone numbers and e-mail addresses just in case I have it wrong.

What it must be like for our overseas visitors (as phoning is not always an option), is the reason for this current post. I understand from the Scottish Golfing Union that they have the same problem and are trying to improve ‘First Contact’ response. This is something I am also very keen on as there are many great course in the UK, but get info on them is rather nonexistent.  

[Tom_Doak]

I don't believe we have any club secretaries as members of this forum, because I would love to hear their input.  My guess is they are far too inundated by email requests to play their courses to spend any more time on the web discussing architecture.

Heck, I get a handful of emails a week, just from friends asking to play one of my courses.  I can't imagine how many requests come through at Prestwick.

[David_Tepper]

Melvyn -

You state that 50% of the club secretaries did not respond "quickly and with the details that I needed."

What was the nature of your inquiry? Were you contacting these clubs to book a teetime or was it in regard to some other matter?

The nature of your inquiry may relate to the timeliness of the responses you received.

DT

[Sean_A]

I don't believe we have any club secretaries as members of this forum, because I would love to hear their input.  My guess is they are far too inundated by email requests to play their courses to spend any more time on the web discussing architecture.

Heck, I get a handful of emails a week, just from friends asking to play one of my courses.  I can't imagine how many requests come through at Prestwick.

We do have one, Richard Pennell.  It would be interesting to hear his thoughts on the subject.  He is the ass. sec. of a fairly well known club that I imagine is on the "to play list" of many societies and more than a few visitors. 

I too find it hit and miss when dealing with secs.  Perhaps this new trend of booking online will eliminate the need for full time secs and push them toward club managers who also handle all the financial aspects of clubs. 

Ciao

[Adrian_Stiff]

I checked with our secretary/admin team and it depends on the enquiry. We apparently respond to half (email), we dont respond (do not have time) to deal with some enquiries but they are usually people trying to sale something we dont want. Telephone enquiries you have to answer.

[Melvyn Morrow]

Tom

Let’s not forget that Clubs are a business and visitors play an important part
In raising revenue for the majority of UK clubs, therefore an adequate system needs to be implemented. However before approaching the clubs in general it would be very useful to obtain the comments and experiences of as many people as possible.

The curse of the modern age is the e-mail yet at the same time it is a wonder, we just need to try and find a happy balance.

I have passed over clubs that have not responded, result they have lost our business and it has put me off trying them again in the immediate future.
A party of four can raise nearly £200 a time plus, multiply that by 5 groups
a week and that could total £50,000 per year. That’s a lot of money to miss out on.

There are always excuses for not doing something, just trying to see how serious the situation actually is.  

    
David

In answer to your question my reason for contacting the clubs relate to various reasons from The Old Tom Morris Golfing Society Membership, Courtesy of their Course for Ernie Payne’s Old Tom Morris Centenary Challenge and general information on their courses for future trips. Rather poor response of only approx 50%.

[Matthew Delahunty]

I've not played all that many courses in the UK but the responses to my enquiries have always been prompt.

Melvyn,

How does your response rate compare with the response at elite US courses?

[Melvyn Morrow]

Matthew

I have only tried to contact a few course in the USA, but regret to advise that three out of three have never responded.

However, I was phoned at home by 'Marc Grenier' of the Royal Quebec Golf Club and have been kept updated since. Marc spent sometime finding out my number as it was not on my e-mail I sent him, it just confirmed that I lived in Suffolk England. That is what I call above and beyond the call of duty.

[Richard Pennell]

We do have one, Richard Pennell.  It would be interesting to hear his thoughts on the subject.  He is the ass. sec. of a fairly well known club that I imagine is on the "to play list" of many societies and more than a few visitors. 

I too find it hit and miss when dealing with secs.  Perhaps this new trend of booking online will eliminate the need for full time secs and push them toward club managers who also handle all the financial aspects of clubs. 

Ciao

Not sure I can offer anything interesting to this. I can't think off the top of my head of an instance when I've been left waiting for a response any length of time, but I agree with Melvyn that it is frustrating to not get any kind of reply at all.

Certainly some of the more private clubs in this country have been slower to embrace technology such as website bookings and email as the preferred means of communication, but that's no real excuse for a slow response if they do have email addresses.

I would guess that 25% or even less of our small visitor groups initially get in touch by email. The phone is still by far the most common way people get in touch. I certainly prefer to call people and have a conversation if I'm looking to play somewhere, as you can get an answer immediately most of the time. A few places I've played that have a reputation for stuffiness (for want of a better word) I've found that writing a letter seems to get a better response.

I was talking to someone yesterday with experience of golf in Canada, who tells me that in most cases it is the Head Professional or Golf Director who deals with bookings, and having seen how busy the day of a Secretary can be on occasion I can see how that might work well in terms of a quick response.

It might be worth considering that some clubs, including a few that feature fairly prominently on this forum, don't seek green fee revenue. Some clubs in Surrey seem to be pricing the green fee very highly presumably in order to limit such play, because the members prefer it that way.

I don't believe we have any club secretaries as members of this forum, because I would love to hear their input.  My guess is they are far too inundated by email requests to play their courses to spend any more time on the web discussing architecture.

Or far too busy spending time on the web discussing architecture to bother with emails?

[Kirk Gill]

I can only provide one story, by way of contrast, as this occurred back in 1986. I was travelling to Scotland and wished to play TOC, and the information I had was that only foursomes could reserve tee times. So, I wrote a letter to the address I had for The Royal and Ancient Golf Club of St. Andrews, asking about setting up a time for a single.

I received the nicest letter signed by Michael Bonnallack, telling me the procedure for single play and wishing me luck on getting on and enjoying the course.

Many things have changed since then (the green fee certainly has !), but I came across that letter a while back when I was moving, and again remarked to myself how gracious it was. Of course, I was not requesting access to a private club.

[Dan Herrmann]

I'd think that a good old fashioned letter would be best.  What's the worst that can happen - you don't hear back or get a polite "no"...

Oh, yeah - Tom Doak - could you get me onto Stonewall North?  (I'm kidding!)

[Alfie]

Melvyn,

Satisfied ? Absolutely NOT !

When trying desperately to promote hickory golf to the multitudes from 2001 - 2003 using the good technology available, I found the response pathetic, to say the least !

I must have around 3000 ++ email addresses of clubs / secs / golf contacts etc on my pc. If I sent out an email shot today offering a free ...whatever...I would expect maybe 10 - 20 to respond and perhaps 30 - 50 requesting removal from address book ?

I've always believed (in Scotland, at least) that clubs were a kind of brotherhood that were created for golf to promote all things golf ! As far as my experience is concerned, I soon became disenchanted and disgusted by the communications infrastructure of the golf club system ?

Now, plenty of excuses can be conjured up for such apathy, but at the end of the day, courtesy plays a major part within the entire golfing world - IMO ? Having served and encouraged golfers all my life, I don't think I was being selfish in thinking that my time had come for a wee bit of (simple) payback via the great internet technology ? It wasn't to be, and my message wasn't posted for the ordinary golfer to see.

I remember the first committee meeting I sat at at my local club. Various business was discussed and then came the mail. The sec picked up the bundle lying before him, told the committee that there was nothing of interest in here, and promtly discharged the bundle into a bucket waiting conveniently close by !

The short of it is - that my brother Harry and myself made a point of order regarding the mail issue, and thereafter we were handed the mail at every meeting ! Yes, there was a great deal of what might be called junk. But there was also posters and requests from "sister" clubs for Open tournaments and the like. We found that it wasn't a massive task to pin up the info for members to see and then discard when "out of date" !

On the positive side, there were the few who understood the "try" being made in the name of golf and it's history from our perspective and their responses were a spur for us to keep going.

Thanks to the responders in golfing life - they are the ones who make golf what it is - and what it is SUPPOSED to be !

Alfie. 

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