Updated Prairie Dunes profile is posted

[Ran Morrissett]

I was watching the women's final of Wimbledon this Saturday and my eight year old daughter came in and sat beside me. After a bit, she asked which was Serena and which was Venus. After a few more minutes of play, she remarked that Venus made tennis look easy and Serena made it look difficult. She pronounced that Venus would win and left the room.

In studying the forty (!) plus updated photos in the Prairie Dunes profile, I am reminded of how easy the Maxwells made things look out here, especially when compared against so many modern courses that try a bit too hard to impress. Of course, one advantage that the Maxwells had was that Perry played a crucial role in selecting the site. Very rarely are architects afforded the luxury of picking the site and when they are (Bandon Trails, Tobacco Road), the results are usually extra-ordinary.

Hope you enjoy this update - the photos of the rolling ninth fairway are exactly what you won't see at that imposter of a links course (Royal Birkdale) in a few weeks.

Cheers,
 

P.S. Later on Saturday, my daughter asked who won the tennis match. I told her Venus and she replied, 'No surprise.' 

[Josh Smith]

Beautiful addition/update.  Thanks Ran.

[John Kirk]

Three of us GCA members just spent three days playing Prairie Dunes last week.  Supremely strategic golf course, where every shot counts.  Tight, easily walkable design with a unique appearance among great American layouts.  Fabulous golf club.

We had two long range eagles on the visit.  I sank a 72 yard pitch for eagle on the famous 17th, and John Mayhugh one-hopped a 162 yard shot into the 1st hole.

I still like Serena better, and just love those Williams sisters.  It's a long way from Compton, California to Wimbledon.

[rjsimper]

John,

That's an impressive eagle to me, considering that in something like 6 rounds I never did better than twice that score on the 17th...probably the most difficult par 5 of such modest length I've ever played (without employing trickery or gimmick)

I've said it many times on this board, but the one misconception about the golf course, in my opinion, is how punishing and tight it is.  The legend of Snead telling a gallery that they'd be walking single-file comes immediately to mind. 

For an admitted wild driver of the ball, I was frightened with how many balls I might lose upon visiting for a long weekend. 

I found just the opposite - sure, if you get REALLY wild you will lose balls, but "tight" or "penal" were thoughts that never really crossed my mind when standing on the tees. 

It's an excellent golf course and Ran, I think you are right on when you say that it's amazing how easy they make it look.  There's nothing superfluous about the contouring in the greens, yet they are consistently lauded as a wonderful set of 18.

I was most struck by the prominence of a single, simple feature in really dictating how you play the hole...the fall-offs on 17 and 18, the knob on 11, etc.

[Phil McDade]

Ryan:

How would you compare fairway widths (on average) at PD to other courses, particularly links-like courses? Width it seems has always been one of the mandatory features of courses like this that purposefully utilize wind to impact line of play and shot choices.

[Chip Gaskins]

Very rarely are architects afforded the luxury of picking the site and when they are (Bandon Trails, Tobacco Road), the results are usually extra-ordinary.

Two of my favorites in the world....Good architects are also good site pickers 

[Chip Gaskins]

Great pictures...the place looks amazing.

How much elevation change is on the property?

[John Kirk]

Phil,

The fairways are perhaps 40-45 yards wide on average, with 10-15 yards of primary rough on each side.  So each par 4 and par 5 hole has a 60-80 yard corridor to play through.  If you miss the corridor, the ball lands in the "gunch", an unmowed area of native plants and grasses, which is periodically burned off so that woody  plants don't establish themselves.  The native area on our last visit was lush and green, and about 20% of balls hit there were found.

When I say tight layout, I meant the layout itself uses limited acreage, with short green to tee walks.  Very intimate and very fair.

[Tony_Chapman]

I've been fortunate enough to have a father who got introduced to Prairie Dunes in 1975 and he was wonderful enough to take his two sons there some 20 years later. My brother and I also had the great fortune of volunteering at the 2006 Senior Open -- great fun!!

At the Open I bought my dad "Perry Maxwell's Prairie Dunes" and it's wonderful to read. No one will ever convince me that Maxwell didn't build the greatest nine-hole golf course ever constructed when he left the property in the mid-1930.

Consider the following holes that he left in Hutchinson: 1, 2, 6, 7 (as a par-4!!), 8, 9, 10, 17 (but with the tee perched high on the dune behind the 10th tee) and 18. It's just a wonderful set of 9-holes.

[rjsimper]

Ryan:

How would you compare fairway widths (on average) at PD to other courses, particularly links-like courses? Width it seems has always been one of the mandatory features of courses like this that purposefully utilize wind to impact line of play and shot choices.

Phil,
There's nothing out there that one would define as a "field" like you might at many notable links courses, but there's certainly nothing as tight as the 1st at Pacific Dunes (from the back tees).  I'd never call it a wide-open course, but it doesn't have that 18-hole pucker feel that I expected.

The only exception, and in my opinion the tightest hole at Prairie Dunes is 7, and at driver-mid-iron with the prevailing wind on a par 5, this seems appropriate.

[Tony_Chapman]

Here is a picture I took at the 2006 Senior Open of where the approximate Perry Maxwell tee was the for the 8th (current 17th). Obviously, I've zoomed in a bit, but I cut the feeling that it had a "cape" feel to the tee shot.

[Chris_Clouser]

Tony,

I agree with you 100%.

[Tony_Chapman]

Chris -- In all of your Maxwellian research, did you ever run across any pictures of the original 8th?

[John Mayhugh]

Three of us GCA members just spent three days playing Prairie Dunes last week.  Supremely strategic golf course, where every shot counts.  Tight, easily walkable design with a unique appearance among great American layouts.  Fabulous golf club.

We had two long range eagles on the visit.  I sank a 72 yard pitch for eagle on the famous 17th, and John Mayhugh one-hopped a 162 yard shot into the 1st hole.

Mr. Kirk fails to mention that he called his shot in the air.   Mine was pure luck as evidenced by my scoring on the remainder of the holes.

Prairie Dunes was an awesome experience, especially getting to play five rounds there.  I couldn't get over how important playing angles were on pretty much every hole.  The course is deceptively difficult, with no breather holes (really no breather shots) at all.  You have to really think your way around the course.  I felt like that at the yardage we played, it was comparable in difficulty to Oakmont at a similar yardage.

The green complexes were fascinating.  I really needed to look at putts from every angle, because my first read from behind the hole was almost always wrong. 

Great course, great fun.  The end of Ran's profile sums it up nicely:
"Yet, there is a tremendous amount of architectural integrity found within each hole and it is this combination that makes it the height of great architecture. All in all, it is the ideal course to study to gain a true appreciation for the perfect meld that can occur between nature and the light hand of man. "

If you ever have a chance to play there, don't pass it up.

[brad_miller]

Ran, how many British Open sites are better since you opened the door? IMHO maybe only The Old Course. Given how the club has given back to the game and hosted many USGA events most recently the Woman's Open in 2002 and the Men's Senior Open in 2006 how about the Walker Cup in 2017!  Interesting it might be a home field advantage for the guys across the pond.

[Doug Wright]

John M,

Congrats on your eagle (you too John K...). Did you find Prairie Dunes to be more demanding than Ballyneal? I'd think the driving is more difficult at Prairie Dunes given the width at Balllyneal. Any other thoughts comparing these gems of the heartland?

[Sean Leary]

These pics look like they are from this year, as you can see the the thinning of the tree gates on 12.

JK, any thoughts on the greenwork by Axeland on #2. Part of me thinks its blasphemy to touch that green, the other part of me certainly understands it. 

When I was there last month, #2 was playing in a 30 MPH cross wind from left to right each day.  A 160 yard hole could not have played harder...

[Craig Van Egmond]

Thanks for the update on one of my all time favorite places.  Its always one of the highlights of my golfing year.

The new pic of #12 shows how much the tree on the right has been trimmed up.

[Craig Van Egmond]

Sean,

    I thought the work on the right side of #2 green turned out well. The wind was absolutely brutal that day!!

[Phil McDade]

Phil,

The fairways are perhaps 40-45 yards wide on average, with 10-15 yards of primary rough on each side.  So each par 4 and par 5 hole has a 60-80 yard corridor to play through.  If you miss the corridor, the ball lands in the "gunch", an unmowed area of native plants and grasses, which is periodically burned off so that woody  plants don't establish themselves.  The native area on our last visit was lush and green, and about 20% of balls hit there were found.

When I say tight layout, I meant the layout itself uses limited acreage, with short green to tee walks.  Very intimate and very fair.

John:

Thanks for the insights. How playable, from the correct tees, is the course for the higher handicapper? PD holds what seems to be a deserved place in the upper tiers of great American courses, yet some of those courses seem beyond the ability of a high handicapper. How does PD fit in? I ask because there is a range of opinions about whether greatness in a course includes the ability to be challenging for a range of golfers.

[Sean Leary]

Phil,

A wild high or low handicapper will have a long day from any set of tees.  It seems like even when you have a good lowish round there, you still find a way to make a double or triple or two, which makes you want to play it again.  My low is 75 (as a 3), and had 2 doubles (Par is 70).

I truly believe that day in and day out, it has to be one of the most difficult courses in the world.

[Tom Huckaby]

Sean, Ryan, anyone else:

The course does certainly look difficult.  And when a well-travelled, knowledgeable and astute golfer like Sean Leary says "I truly believe that day in and day out, it has to be one of the most difficult courses in the world", well, that speaks loudly to me.

But why is it FUN?

Is the fun derived in trying to tame the beast?

I get that....but is that what it's all about?

There's an element to that at Sand Hills - from the way back tips, it can be beastly.  It can also be beastly from any tees in high wind, but heck one could say that about most courses.  But what Sand Hills also has - and what puts it at the top of my personal favorites list - is that it can be great FUN in terms of allowing for recoveries, allowing for risky, aggressive shots that give great reward if pulled off,also giving a few breather shots or breather holes, while still requiring great thought - from the shorter tees.  I've called it NGLA from the short tees, Shinnecock from the back.  And that to me is very cool.  I hear Ballyneal has great elements of this as well.

Does Prairie Dunes have an aspect of this also?  Could it be more FUN in the way I am talking about from shorter tees?

I want to love this course.  Educate me, my friends.

TH

[Tony_Chapman]

Phil -- I think the issue most have with PD is that once you stray from the short grass the vegetation is pretty think and unlikely to recover. It'd be quite a challenge for anybody if the wind really got going (say, 30+ mph).

The one time I played it was in a steady rain, about 65-70 degrees (in August!!) and I had the most wonderful 80 I've ever shot. I was playing to about a 5 index at the time.

That said, there are not any rediculous forced carries that I remember. But, the ball will most certainly bounce and you don't always no where which makes it great fun, too.

Oh, now I see the Great Huckaby has finally chimed in, so I'll go on....

Huck, I don't think you'll get an argument from me that there is not as much room at PD as there is at Sand Hills. I think PD requires more exacting shots as well, especially the short holes. I think mostly its the combination of small greens and wind that do the trick. That said, I trust you haven't seen it since the change to the maitanence around the greens. I think that'd do wonders to what you think about the golf course.

Might I ask, what conditions did you play in at PD?

[Tom Huckaby]

Tony:

I have never played Prairie Dunes.  My take is completely from pictures, what I've seen on TV and descriptions here.

And I do not mean to compare it to any one course.

I just have a hard time reconciling "most difficult course in the world" with the word "fun."

So please do educate me - why is it FUN?

Note I assume it is GREAT.  I assume it deserves every accolade it has received.

TH

ps - the course we played together - Wild Horse - I see as more fun than married guys are allowed to have... if that helps at all.

[John Kirk]

Phil,

The higher handicapper can navigate his way through the course as long as he is not a "strong 10-15" guy, a long, wild hitter.  You've got to hit it pretty straight.  60-80 yards wide seems sufficient, but the penalty is "ball gone" for a miss.

Tom,

You are correct.  It is less "fun" than it is "challenging".  Many golden age USGA venues fit this description, as far as I'm concerned.  But it's so strategic, not so much in terms of playing angles, but more in the sense of when to be aggressive and when to be defensive. 

Although it is only 6100-6200 yards, I found the course a lot less demanding and more fun from the white tees.

Blues:  74.2/142
Whites:  71.1/134