Steve:
How do you know that?
I don't doubt that CCFAD in some remote area or one in which the depth of big time $$ is very thin that would apply. You should take a drive in and around the Pound Ridge area and tell me if even $8 a gallon gas would make many of those people remotely wince.
Jim K:
Ask a far broader question -- how many courses would I personally pay $200 or more to play?
The answer is very few.
I'd pay to play Pound Ridge at least 1-2 times per year but my overall financials are not what the ownership has in mind. My wife does read GCA from time to time and if I admit here to having millions stashed somewhere I'm sure she will ask me to fork a few over to her !
But realize this ...
I would not pay the dollar amount that Shadow Creek charges or other such comparable priced layouts like Pinehurst #2 (even though I am a big time fan of the NC layout) because the dollar escalation to play such courses has gone far beyond sensibilities for me. It's not a reflection of the architecture -- although I don't see Shadow being better than Wolf Creek in nearby Mesquite - which is a course I would
Jerry, those with the bucks and fascination will pay it because in relative terms there are the same people who pay $100+ for a bottle of wine, who get facials and manicures that are at least that much -- the same people who make sure Fido eats Angus beef and has a personal trainer, yada, yada, yada.
The neighborhood the course resides in the smack dab of big time cash. The issue will come down to how effective they can see the "experience" in playing there.
They may also do what other courses have done -- scale the rates to time of year in order to grab people who would not play there during prime time playing months.
Tom D:
Try to realize that Pete has designed other relentless courses in the past too that have received big time headlines - The Straits at WS is one that comes quickly to mind -- ditto The Ocean Course at Kiawah. People do line up to play these monsters even though they need a compass and a calculator to finish rounds there.
The issue Tom is that Joe Sixpack or Joe Champagne Glass given the nature of the neighborhood need to play from the appropriate tees because failing to do that will ensure a very long day. But, the same can be said for people who venture to Bethpage Black and insist upon playing the back tees because they want to see the entire course. It's funny because they do get their wish.
Tom, when you say top dollar green fee -- define top dollar green fee and for who? I mean Pound Ridge is not looking to ciphon off the duds who are grabbing the early tee times at Sprain Lake and Maple Moor !
When you see places like Pinehrust #2 charging $400 or Whistling Straits looking to grab a comparable number -- ditto places like Greenbrier and others of this type -- I don't see how $235 is so excessive. Please don't think I am not sympathetic to the plight of the average Joe and Jane because Pound Ridge is at best a singular event and likely few of them will ever venture there more than once. But, that decision is likely tied to their wallet rather than the nature of the design.
Mike S:
I'm not suggesting Pound Ridge is a slam dunk business success story. But, you need to check out Mapquest and see ther overall neighborhood from which Pound Ridge resides -- more than anyone else you should know that. We are talking about the zip code area where the printing presses for $$ are produced for all of the USA.
Mike, how many locations in the USA can even S-N-I-F-F the total bucks that exist on the border area between Westchester and Fairfield? No doubt the connection to other elements (e.g. casinos, hotels, etc, etc) are needed for those but Pound Ridge might be able to derive success without them -- even in a short season. Much will depend upon how the course is branded and marketed. I didn't say it will be a 100% success but I think you are being a bit unfair in saying the course will simply tank.
You also throw forward Stone Harbor as an example and it's a joke for you to go that direction. Stone Harbor was a lark of a layout with built in eccentricities to match the ego of its designer the late Desmond Muirhead.
The layout at Pound Ridge is far better in terms of its original design and the nature in how good shots are rewarded and penalized.
You also shame Pete Dye as being in a "swan song of life" -- the reality is that his son P.B. had more of a hand in the actual total details than many might surmise. Pete may not hit the fastball as well as he has from earlier times but he still can produce -- play the 15th hole as just one example !
Mike, don't know if you have actually played the course just yet. But, if and when you do -- you need to see how it was skillfully routed and despite the tight nature of the property does very well in so many spots ... I have articulated a number of the shortcomings -- the plethora of bunkers on the 5th which is simply overkill; the location of a huge tree blocking the fairway at the 18th with companion small fir trees on the right of the fairway, to name just two areas in need of correction.
But, if you link Stone Harbor as being the equivalent of Pound Ridge you are not comparing apples to oranges but fruits to vegetables. Night and day differences.
Stone Harbor failed for other reasons beyond the course content. Ownership was in flux -- ditto staff and the nature of golf in the greater AC area expanded to include a broader range of golf layouts. Let me also point out the seasonal nature of the lower Shore area -- those who resided in and around the immediate AC area did not have to venture all the way to Stone Harbor and Cape May vicinity to play.
Mike, I asked this before you tap-danced around it -- you said previously that the Wang family borrowed $30 million to build the course. What is your source for that info? I also opined that given the Wang's long time love affair with the property and the desire to provide something upscale public in an area dominated by extremely private clubs they have done a service to golf and for those who take advantage of what is being offered.
No doubt the climate for golf and the economy in general will play a major role but please don't try to link the nature of Stone Harbor's original design to what the Dyes have created there. I would think you would know better than that. Forgive me for my error.