"National is a goat track..."

[Jim Franklin]

...Just don't tell your sister or Terry about that...I need to maintain some level of respect and sanity with them and their kids.

Thanks for the caveat; I am seeing them in two weeks.

[Jim Franklin]

Jim,
I played The National a few weeks ago.  Conditioning was superb.  Even my son (who is only 19) thought the design was fantastic as did our playing partners who had never played there before.  Some people just have a different perspective on golf courses.  I am not surprised in the least.  See you Wednesday.
Mark

Different strokes for different folks for sure. I look forward to seeing you as well.

[Jim Franklin]

Jim's friend's comments are so outrageous I chalk them up to pure hyperbole designed to drive home his sense of missing something.  I doubt he seriously believes most of them himself.  That being said, when you cut through the chaff, there are some underlying slivers of truth in his madness.  And aren't those truths all part of the charm and precisely what makes NGLA so great?  Would NGLA be so beloved if its greatness were so obvious to all who graced its grounds?  If that were the case, I suspect many of us would adopt another "cause" if for no other reason that to prove to ourselves that our tastes are more discriminating than the average duffer.   In my view, NGLA is not the greatest course I have played (Shinnecock takes that honor).  But it is certainly one of my favorite places to play.

Ed

Well said Ed. Totally agree.

[ChipOat]

First, it's easy to see why some (many?) are underwhelmed by NGLA at first playing; especially if there's little or no wind that day (which is often true on most mornings, BTW).  You either love the 1st and 11th greens or you don't.

Second, one of the better observations of the National I've ever heard is, "the fairways may be wide, but if you hit a bad drive, it follows you all the way to the hole."  Truer words were never spoken.  At Pine Valley, it's obvious why that is so.  Shinnecock, too (it's called uber-deep rough plus 1 water hazard).  At National, it's equally true but not quite so obvious until you experience it yourself a few times and discover that a bad drive at National has REALLY left you with a problem.  If this guy is a bomber, he probably made a few (or more than a few)  double bogey's that, somehow, didn't seem like they should have happened.  After all, those drives off the fairway didn't LOOK like they were in all that bad a place so what the hell happened?  In terms of being "sneaky difficult", I would liken National to Merion West on steroids.

Third, I would encourage your pal to get his ass back to National for a couple of AFTERNOON rounds in a 2 club wind (which is the norm).  He may not like it as much after that as he likes Shinnecock or Pine Valley, but if he still thinks it's a goat track, then there's something about the Golden Age that he just doesn't appreciate and probably never will.  and tell him not to waste his $$$ on a trip to Dornoch, TOC, Muirfield, et al as he surely won't care much for those cow pastures, either.

[Sean_A]

Jim

Maybe your friend is right and most of the rest of us are encumbered by Groupthink.  Just comsider the Emperor and his new clothes.  I've only played NGLA once, and I consider it to be great fun but just very good golf.  If it were miraculously transported across the pond, it would have difficulty making the top 20 in Great Britain and Ireland.  And, just to back that completely personal opinion up, here are the courses over here that I think are definitely "better" in alphabetical order:

Ballybunion
Birkdale
County Down
Carnoustie
Deal
Dornoch
Hoylake
Lahinch
Lytham
Muirfield
Portmarnock
Portrush
Rye
Sandwich
Turnberry
Troon
Western Gailes

...and I'm sure I left a few out....

Rich

Well I hope NGLA is better than a few on the Rihc list or I need to kick my dreams into another gear.  Troon, Turnberry, Lytham?  I am not sure I can think of another trio of over-rated bluster anywhere in the world.  The lack of imagination at these places with the exception of a handful of holes is truly staggering,

Ciao

[Ronald Montesano]

Two thoughts from my cobweb-laden mind:

Where is Old on that fellow's list of "better" courses in the British Isles?

Why are we such puffy-chested gusts of wind?  Tell him this!  Tell him that!  He doesn't know this!  He doesn't know that!  Sounds like we're out to suck up to CBM.

I recall the story (true or not) of CBM and his descendant standing on the first tee of NGLA.  CBM swore the hole could not be driven; the descendant stepped up and drove it, and CBM wrote him out of the will that very day.

True or not, that story seems to line up with the lads and lasses that have jumped to vilify the anonymous member for his powerful opinion. 

Oh, one other thought...can I meet this member?  He seems to have access to some fine courses.

[Tom Huckaby]

Rich:

I will never forget that the one time you saw and played NGLA it was undergoing some maintenance or whatever and just wasn't itself---probably not even in the ballpark. That was really a shame.

I will absolutely guarantee you if you could see it and play it when it presents its IMM you would never make a post like you did with those twenty courses over there that are better or more fun and interesting and challenging to play.

NGLA with its IMM was a complete revelation to me in my golf life when I first played in the Singles Tournament. Seeing it and playing it as you did unfortunately is probably something like getting into bed and trying to make love to a great beauty who's asleep and just won't wake up. 

I remember doing that at Shinnecock about fifteen years ago, and to be honest after nine I just quit---it wasn't worth it.

TEP:

I played with Rich that day at NGLA.  We played Shinnecock also, later the same day.

NGLA's greens had been recently aerated.  Putting was well, let's just say interesting.  We certainly didn't get the full flavor of the greens.  But the rest of the course was quite firm and fast and I have to believe nearly everything it could be.

So Rich doesn't get off this easily.

And remember I too played it just this one time and I consider it definitely in the top five courses I have ever seen.