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Doug Wright

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Wie Forget ...
« Reply #525 on: August 19, 2008, 05:34:44 PM »
...
But seeing as Matt and I are both Black-Mesa-kool-aid-drinking-genuflecting-zealot-apologist-fanatics, I can't really judge anything else he says too harshly. ;) ;D 8)

Oh No! Not another Black-Mesa-kool-aid-drinking-genuflecting-zealot-apologist-fanatic! Ran save us please!
 ;D

Garland, I think Ran is one of those too... [Emoticon deleted in deference to Dan Kelly]
Twitter: @Deneuchre

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Wie Forget ...
« Reply #526 on: August 19, 2008, 05:36:44 PM »
Doug,

I am quite sure Ran has more perspective than that.
He will probably only genuflect for Cabot Links.
 :)
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Cabell Ackerly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Wie Forget ...
« Reply #527 on: August 19, 2008, 05:41:55 PM »
I hate to do this, but some people fail to understand the "hype" that Michelle Wie generated before the age of 15....please note, that for a girl that "needs to learn how to win", she sure has won a lot.  Here's some "hype"....

2000 - 10 years old

As a 10 year old, Michelle Wie participated in various junior hawaii tournaments, usually in various age brackets such as 11-12 or 14-15 or adult ladies events.
She won various events including:
- OJGA Stroke Play Tournament At Hawaii Country Club, Girls 11-12
- OJGA Nine Hole Stroke Play Tournament At Kapolei Course Girls 11-12
- Mayor's Cup at the Ala Wai Golf Course - ladies flight
- OJGA Tour Championship At Makaha Valley Country Club Girls 11-12

She also became the youngest ever qualifier for the US Women’s Amateur Public Links Competition at 10 years of age, and she qualified through the stroke play section of that tournament before being knocked out in the first round of matchplay.

 2001 - 11 years old


Michelle Wie won her first event of the year:
- OJGA Stroke Play Tournament At Hawaii Prince Golf Club, Girls 11-12
She won this event by 11 strokes and it was clear that she needed to play more with older age groups to get more competition, and this appears to be the time she started to play against more ladies adult competition.

Playing more events with ladies adults did not hurt her progress and she went through a raft of titles, winning all the major Hawaii stroke play titles with the exception of the Hawaii State Open (where she came 2nd and which she came back to the following year and won by 13 strokes).

Some of her ladies victories included:
- Jennie K. Wilson Invitational at Mid-Pacific Country Club (the most prestigious women’s amateur tournament in Hawaii) (won by 9 strokes).
- Hawaii State Women’s Stroke Play Championship at Mid-Pacific Country Club
- HSJGA Junior Tour, girls 15-18, at the Poipu Bay Golf Course
- Hawaii State Junior Golf Association’s Tournament of Champions - Girls 15-18.

She also tried her hand at some Hawaii mens events including:
- Manoa Cup Hawaii State Amateur Match-Play Championship (first and youngest female (age 11) to qualify for match-play dating back to 1907).
- Mayor's Cup Golf Tournament, 2001- Championship Flight, 25th place.

She again qualified for the US Women’s Publc Links and improved on her previous performance, getting to the last 16 (3rd round) of the competition.

 2002 - 12 years old


At this stage it was becoming obvious that there was not much competition for Michelle in Hawaii ladies golf competitions. So attention started to focus more on the mainland for women's events, as well as playing some mens events in Hawaii.

Mens
- In early 2002 she played in a Hawaii mens professional tournament, The Hilo Invitational Golf Tournament, where she finished 47th of the 124 players. The tournament was won by pga tour pro Dean Wilson.
- She also came 17th in the Hawaii State Amateur Stroke-Play Championship (MENS).
- At the Manoa Cup, she became the first and youngest female (age 12) to advance to the second-round of match play.

Ladies
- In February, Michelle entered qualifying for the lpga event, The Takefuji Classic, where she qualified, and became the youngest player ever to Monday Qualify for an lpga tour event (at 12 years of age). The previous youngest was Natalie Gulbis at 14. At the event itself she shot rounds of 72 and 74 to miss the cut by 3 strokes.
- In July, Wie entered Monday qualifying for another lpga event, The Wendy’s Championship and again qualified, this time with medalist honors. At the event itself, she missed the cut by just 2 strokes.
- Between those lpga events, she had again qualified for the US Women’s Publinx and this time improved her performance again, getting to the Semi-Finals of the competition, a performance that meant she automatically qualified for the following years competition.
- She also played the Trans National Women's Amateur Championship, and became the Youngest Junior Medalist in the history of the event.

More Mens Events
After the majority of her mainland ladies events, she went back to Hawaii, and played 3 adult male amateur tournaments. Her results were:
- Barbers Point Invitational Tournament, 4th place.
- Hickam Invitational Tournament, 5th place.
- Mayor's Cup Golf Tournament, 2002- Championship Flight, 20th place.

 2003  - 13 years old


MENS
- After such a successful 2002 season, she started her 2003 campaign by attempting to qualify for the pga event, the Sony Open. She shot a very credible 73 (1 over) from the championship tees (Par 72) at the Pearl Country Club, but did not qualify for the Sony Open itself.
- Next she played the Hawaii Pearl Open where she made the cut and finished 43rd in the 193 player field.
- Next she played the Hawaii State Amateur Stroke-Play Championship and had a very impressive 4th place finish. To put this result in context, Wie was 13 years old and this field of male amateurs included Parker McLaughlin (who Wie finished 8 strokes ahead of). Parker would go on to gain a full pga tour card for the 2007 season.

LADIES
- In March 2003, Michelle received a sponsors exemption to the Kraft Nabisco Championship. The Kraft Tournament had a long history of giving exemptions to top amateurs, and because of Michelle’s excellent amateur record, as well as her two successful attempts at qualifying for lpga tour events her exemption was well deserved. However, as much as people had been impressed by her record, most were shocked when she recorded a 9th place finish there. Nobody of that age had ever made a cut in a major, let alone finished in the top 10.
- She also went through qualification for the US Women’s Open and qualified. At the US Women’s Open itself, she placed a very credibile 39th, becoming the youngest player to make the cut at the US Women’s Open.
- Add to this she won the US Women’s Public Links Competition, (the youngest player ever to win an adult usga event).

The combination of these successes meant that lpga tournaments were eagerly lining up to offer her exemptions to play their events.
- In total she played 7 lpga events in 2003, missing the cut in just one of those events (by one stroke at the Jamie Farr Classic) and making the cut in all 6 other events, with placings of 9th, 28th, 33rd, 38th, 52nd and 69th.

I won't bother with her results at age 14,15 and 16....needless to say she continued to excell...


and someone called Matt a loser? This is downright scary coming from a  grown man...

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Wie Forget ...
« Reply #528 on: August 19, 2008, 05:46:54 PM »
I hate to do this, but some people fail to understand the "hype" that Michelle Wie generated
...
I won't bother with her results at age 14,15 and 16....needless to say she continued to excell...


and someone called Matt a loser? This is downright scary coming from a  grown man...


Yes Cabell, but in my family my sister-in-law is well known for saying "don't confuse me with the facts". I prefer facts to vitriolic speculation any day.
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Craig Sweet

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Wie Forget ...
« Reply #529 on: August 19, 2008, 06:31:13 PM »
Matt...you are providing me with a moving target. You first complain that Michelle Wie never won anything. You are wrong.  You then claim she never has warranted the "hype", when clearly her accomplishments between the age of 10 and 16 DID WARRANT the "hype"and now you are saying..."yeah, she use to be good, but not lately"......so Matt, what is it you want me to say? 

Look, if you put Michelle Wie on the LPGA full time, by the end of the year I am quite sure she would have a much higher ranking than either Paula Creamer or Morgan Pressell...that is my opinion.
LOCK HIM UP!!!

Jay Flemma

Re: Wie Forget ...
« Reply #530 on: August 19, 2008, 06:57:15 PM »
...
But seeing as Matt and I are both Black-Mesa-kool-aid-drinking-genuflecting-zealot-apologist-fanatics, I can't really judge anything else he says too harshly. ;) ;D 8)

Oh No! Not another Black-Mesa-kool-aid-drinking-genuflecting-zealot-apologist-fanatic! Ran save us please!
 ;D

Hey!  I resemble that remark! ;D ;D

Craig, you have to put down your copy of "Michelle Wie:  The making of a Champion" and slowly back away.  Do you work for her or her PR company?
« Last Edit: August 19, 2008, 07:05:04 PM by Jay Flemma »

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Wie Forget ...
« Reply #531 on: August 19, 2008, 07:09:02 PM »
Jay,

Craig is the chairman of the Teach Matt Ward the Facts of Life committee here at GCA.
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Craig Sweet

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Wie Forget ...
« Reply #532 on: August 19, 2008, 09:36:35 PM »
Jay, mearly pointing out to those that insist the early hype wasn't worthy, that they are wrong...also, to those that continue to insist she needs to learn how to win, that SHE DID win and she did it often...

All you have to do Jay is actually look at her playing record....
LOCK HIM UP!!!

John Moore II

Re: Wie Forget ...
« Reply #533 on: August 19, 2008, 11:13:44 PM »
Craig--Other than the 2003 US Women's Am Publinx, name a tournament of substance on the national stage that she won. I can't think of any.

Glenn Spencer

Re: Wie Forget ...
« Reply #534 on: August 20, 2008, 08:15:00 AM »
Craig--Other than the 2003 US Women's Am Publinx, name a tournament of substance on the national stage that she won. I can't think of any.

Fair question. Let me ask you this though, what are the Ladies Amateur events that are harder or more important to win than the Publinx? I can think of 2 maybe, Amateur and British Amateur. So, it is very clear that she knows how to win the biggest tournaments at 13. Does she need to win 10 of them to prove it? There are so many great champions that never won a USGA event on the amateur level. Men and Women. Hell, Blumenhurst just about finished one of the greatest amateur records in history without doing it and that girl is going to win big on tour.

Phil_the_Author

Re: Wie Forget ...
« Reply #535 on: August 20, 2008, 08:41:10 AM »
Let her be and grow however she wants... after all it is HER life now isn't it? By the way, what is ALWAYS forgotten is that Michelle isn't even the greatest female Wie to ever play golf. That honor belongs to multiple major winner of both the U.S. Open and Amateur Virginia Van Wie...

Maybe one day she'll equal or eclipse Virginia's record. Until then it's time for all to ease up on her...

Pat Brockwell

Re: Wie Forget ...
« Reply #536 on: August 20, 2008, 09:12:35 AM »
Garland,
How do you think Michelle would do at Black Mesa? ;)

Matt_Ward

Re: Wie Forget ...
« Reply #537 on: August 20, 2008, 10:08:31 AM »
Chris B:

Appreciate the 101 psycho analysis assessment. ;D

Here's the deal ... I admire golf talent that can produce when all the hype says it's an automatic. You have Wie genuflectors, gushers, apologists, call them what one will, on this site who simply ASSUMED she would continue to march on with greatness and be the next Tiger albeit from the femal side.

It has not happened as simply as they might have believed. Guess what too -- it might never happen. That's not an unfamiliar situation in golf's history.

Let me point out a case study of a guy named Eddie Pearce who in '68 won the US Junior in a field that contained none other than Ben Crenshaw -- in fact, Ben years later claimed his visit to the Northeast to TCC where the event was held inspired his later love for architecture and golf history.

Pearce was seen by many as a shoe-in for future greatness. His spread ahead of the others was that great. Guess what happened?

Eddie Pearce played the PGA Tour briefly and with just a hint of the future success predicted for him. Even Crenshaw and others he routinely beat thought Eddie had the goods to be a really great one.

The situation with Michelle Wie is that often times you'll get junior players who are far ahead of others when in the early stages of their competitive lives. As they mature sometimes their passion for the game wanes -- sometimes their overall talent level maxes out as well. In response to that the other competitors can surpass them because their games improve faster and their passion for the game only deepens.

I don't know what the overall passion level for Michelle Wie is. I can say this though -- I see her as a tremendous talent but talent alone is not going to take her to the highest fo levels. I've watched her at few tournaments and while her driving his impressive and much of her long game the closer she comes to the green the more it appears that her short game and putting are not anywhere near the highest of levels.

Let me point out another fact -- you have people on this thread and other similar ones - who give Michelle a huge benefit of the doubt but never connect the role that Team Wie -- which Michelle is part of albeit in a narrower manner -- plays in this entire situation.

All these people see is the girl and not the rest of the elements tied inexorably to her.

You have people who fall back on the predictable but lame responses ... "she's a teenager," or "she's been injured," or whatever else can fit the moment of the day.

I simply mentioned previously that the ongoing fascination with men's golf is a worthy dream but it's turning into the circus carnival show. It's more about the side-show than delivering the goods. Competition at its most basic levels means the wherewithal to compete. That was the type of comment that Vijay made when Annika stepped forward at Colonial a few years back. Guess what? Vijay was labeled some sort of male-dinosaur when all he said was that people who want play at that high level should earn it like he and countless others did.

Annika understood her limitations and while clearly sports is about pushing the boundaries -- it also means realizing that when the hype is simply hype there will be those -- myself and others -- who are not going to guy the endless parade of mindless promotions when frankly there's little there that really delivers the goods.

Michelle should get her LPGA card and focus -- if golf is still her passion -- to build a record against the best female golfers in the world. But the clock is not going to stop and her competitors won't be passing the hat imploring Michelle to do what I have just stated.

Chris, the obnoxious nature you mentioned really deals with the fact that as careers progress there will be assessments made along the way. You have people who can't stand to admit that the sure thing they bought into may not really be the sure thing they originally believed. When someone like me and others challenges those assumptions you then get the usual response that I and others are beating up on her and other such inane statements.

John C makes the ignorant and erroneous comment that I have labeled all Wie supporters as "idiots." And then goes forward with his juvenile approach with "cuckoo" this and "cuckoo" that. I've outlined numerous times that the so-called Michelle Wie express train has simply derailed for the moment. She may reclaim that momentum but I have not jumped off the ledge of sanity with this rush to proclaim her the next anything.



John_Conley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Wie Forget ...
« Reply #538 on: August 20, 2008, 10:34:22 AM »
John C makes the ignorant and erroneous comment that I have labeled all Wie supporters as "idiots." And then goes forward with his juvenile approach with "cuckoo" this and "cuckoo" that. I've outlined numerous times that the so-called Michelle Wie express train has simply derailed for the moment. She may reclaim that momentum but I have not jumped off the ledge of sanity with this rush to proclaim her the next anything.

Then Matt, make it easy for us and just name these people.

have Wie genuflectors, gushers, apologists, call them what one will, on this site who simply ASSUMED she would continue to march on with greatness and be the next Tiger albeit from the femal side.

It has not happened as simply as they might have believed.


We all know how we feel and it obviously varies from person to person.  Instead of addressing specifics individually you've rolled everyone who has ever said anything complimentary into one group.  And you still fail to see how illogical that is.

You won't be happy until people retract their comments that an early teen regularly finishing Top 10 in Majors is a big deal.  I don't think that's going to happen.

Do you?

John_Conley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Wie Forget ...
« Reply #539 on: August 20, 2008, 10:55:11 AM »
Matt,

Your passion for this particular subject does not reflect well upon you.

Jess, I said as much two days ago.  Maybe we should rethink this.  At least he's passionate about something!  This energy could have cured cancer if thrown in that direction.


JESII

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Wie Forget ...
« Reply #540 on: August 20, 2008, 10:58:52 AM »
John,

I said it 7 weeks ago...and I agree, the passion should be re-directed.

John Moore II

Re: Wie Forget ...
« Reply #541 on: August 20, 2008, 11:43:35 AM »
Craig--Other than the 2003 US Women's Am Publinx, name a tournament of substance on the national stage that she won. I can't think of any.

Fair question. Let me ask you this though, what are the Ladies Amateur events that are harder or more important to win than the Publinx? I can think of 2 maybe, Amateur and British Amateur. So, it is very clear that she knows how to win the biggest tournaments at 13. Does she need to win 10 of them to prove it? There are so many great champions that never won a USGA event on the amateur level. Men and Women. Hell, Blumenhurst just about finished one of the greatest amateur records in history without doing it and that girl is going to win big on tour.

No, she does not need to win 10 Publinx tournaments in order to prove she is a good golfer. But again, that was 5 years ago. I am honestly asking what has she done since then? She has finished top 5 in some majors, a very good accomplishment, but she has yet to show a true level of consistency in the way she plays. That is why Blumenherst is the best amateur of the last many years, and why Annika is the best female golfer of the past 15 years, and possibly ever.

--Anybody can catch lighting in a bottle for one week--See Chauciraporn (spelled wrong, but the 1998 Womens Open playoff loser), See Craig Perks (2002ish Players Champion who has never even sniffed winning again and doesn't have a card), see Rich Beem, see Paul Lawrie, Hank Kuehne, and many others. One win doesn't make a career, it just means you were great one week.

John_Conley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Wie Forget ...
« Reply #542 on: August 20, 2008, 12:02:11 PM »
I am honestly asking what has she done since then?

C'mon, you really don't know?  Just re-read the thread and you'll be able to pick up on her finishes.  Short version - 2007 was a lost year full of embarrassment and 2008 was sketchy at best.

It isn't like she's toiling away in obscurity.  As Matt, Flemma, and Shelman point out she still commands a tremendous amount of media attention.  "What has she done since then?"  In today's information age you don't have trouble following her travails.

John Moore II

Re: Wie Forget ...
« Reply #543 on: August 20, 2008, 06:45:44 PM »
John Conley--Let me rephrase...What has she WON since the Am Publinx? Like I said, she did finish top 5 in some majors and finished 2nd in the Publinx the next year, and round of 16 at the Men's Publinx. But what tournaments has she won since she won the Publinx? None, so far as I can recall. And the reason she isn't "toiling in obscurity" is because she gets massive press coverage every time she leaves her house.

Craig Sweet

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Wie Forget ...
« Reply #544 on: August 20, 2008, 07:51:46 PM »
J. Ken Moore....I think the ONLY reason (other than her recent injury) Wie has not shown consistency on the LPGA tour is her lack of consistent playing. When she is able to bunch several exemptions together, and qualifies for a tourney or two to add to that mix, she has done quite well. 

I have little doubt that once she commits to playing that tour full time she will become the best American golfer on that tour.
LOCK HIM UP!!!

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Wie Forget ...
« Reply #545 on: August 20, 2008, 08:17:37 PM »
I think Wie went wrong when she decided to move up in competition too soon. She should have learned to utterly destroy the competition at the Jr. Level, then work up to the Am Level (even though she did win the Am Publinx), then finally to the Pro level. Or even skip the Jr level. But she needed to learn how to win. Thats how Tiger did it, he has destroyed the competition at every level. Wie should be a great golfer again, but she needs to learn how to win.

This could certainly be true.

However, history shows there are many paths to success. Hogan didn't become a great golfer till his 30s. Vijay didn't really become Vijay till almost his 40s. Look at Harrington's progression relative to the younger phenoms like Garcia, Rose, Casey, Dougherty, etc.

The same holds for other individual sports. Agassi dominated his age group while Sampras was playing up in age and losing; who had the better career?

Michelle is still a child. I think calling anyone choosing to defend her record - which is very impressive relative to 99.999999% of the golf world - an apologist when she still is in her teens is a bit silly, to say the least. Give her a chance to grow up, give her game a chance to develop, give her a chance to get healthy, before pronouncing some sort of assinine judgment on her career.

We mustn't forget that Wie took the money to turn pro.  I certainly can't blame her for doing this as whatever she was paid was serious dosh.  With that decision and combined with the fact that she can only play so many women's events, it stands to reason that she would go for the men's events.  Her sponsors have to get their value and Wie needed competitive rounds.  Pro golf is entertainment and that is what Wie provided.  I don't think its reasonable to stand back and say this or that about learning to win when someone offers you what is essentially (if invested wisely) a lifetime golden goose. 

Having said that, Wie is a pro and should be treated as such.  All this nonsense about ducking behind her age is rubbish, besides, that time is now passed.  She ain't all that young anymore.   Wie demonstrated that she has enough game to win, yet she hasn't.  I hope she does win and soon, but until that time, she gets no sympathy or quarter from me.  She has a fat wad so she doesn't need my sympathy!

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024:Winterfield, Alnmouth, Camden, Palmetto Bluff Crossroads Course, Colleton River Dye Course  & Old Barnwell

Matt_Ward

Re: Wie Forget ...
« Reply #546 on: August 20, 2008, 08:24:20 PM »
Sean:

A bit of a correction in your understanding. Team Wie did not want an LPGA membership because that would have meant cowtowing to the rules and regs of that tour. They wanted to cherry pick the events they wanted to play and as a result be the ultimate free-lance golfer.

The only missing part was the results to keep this going.

The LPGA -- caved into McDonald's DEMAND that Wie be given an exemption as an AMATEUR into the LPGA Championship -- an event meant solely for professionals.

No doubt Wie was under the minimum age but for long period of time Team Wie kept the LPGA at a good arm's length away from bringing Michelle under their tent.

Now the shoe is on the other foot and the greater leverage rests with the LPGA Tour. Team Wie understands that they need a stage to showcase Michelle and the PGA Tour sideshow routine is not doing anyone any favors -- especially Michelle.

You are 10000% correct about one thing -- she's a professional now and no doubt the vast sums of dollars have been neatly deposited. Credit Team Wie for milking this show for as long as it could minus some superlative play from Michelle. The game plan for future events seems to be an LPGA membership but until that happens one can never say for certain what other cards may be played from the deck.


Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Wie Forget ...
« Reply #547 on: August 20, 2008, 09:00:38 PM »
Sean:

A bit of a correction in your understanding. Team Wie did not want an LPGA membership because that would have meant cowtowing to the rules and regs of that tour. They wanted to cherry pick the events they wanted to play and as a result be the ultimate free-lance golfer.

The only missing part was the results to keep this going.

The LPGA -- caved into McDonald's DEMAND that Wie be given an exemption as an AMATEUR into the LPGA Championship -- an event meant solely for professionals.

No doubt Wie was under the minimum age but for long period of time Team Wie kept the LPGA at a good arm's length away from bringing Michelle under their tent.

Now the shoe is on the other foot and the greater leverage rests with the LPGA Tour. Team Wie understands that they need a stage to showcase Michelle and the PGA Tour sideshow routine is not doing anyone any favors -- especially Michelle.

You are 10000% correct about one thing -- she's a professional now and no doubt the vast sums of dollars have been neatly deposited. Credit Team Wie for milking this show for as long as it could minus some superlative play from Michelle. The game plan for future events seems to be an LPGA membership but until that happens one can never say for certain what other cards may be played from the deck.


Matt

Not being privy to the "Team Wie" decision making process, I can only assume that they felt the  LPGA was not a viable option until Wie was of age.  We can aimlessly discuss whether or not the LPGA would have changed their rules to allow Wie as a member of the tour, but I don't see the point. 

I spose Wie could (and maybe should) have played on the Futures Tour at age 17.  In retrospect, wasn't she hurt for much of the year anyway?  Wie had her success back in '05 & '06.  In some regard, Wie was terribly unlucky that she was underage as she would have qualified for a tour card.  I also spose Wie should have gone into Q School last fall.  I don't know why she chose not to do either of things though I suspect that last fall Q School was the last thing on her mind. 


Ciao
New plays planned for 2024:Winterfield, Alnmouth, Camden, Palmetto Bluff Crossroads Course, Colleton River Dye Course  & Old Barnwell

John_Conley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Wie Forget ...
« Reply #548 on: August 20, 2008, 09:06:31 PM »
John Conley--Let me rephrase...What has she WON since the Am Publinx? Like I said, she did finish top 5 in some majors and finished 2nd in the Publinx the next year, and round of 16 at the Men's Publinx. But what tournaments has she won since she won the Publinx? None, so far as I can recall. And the reason she isn't "toiling in obscurity" is because she gets massive press coverage every time she leaves her house.

Sorry, the "I'm honestly asking" part didn't imply a rhetorical question.  I'll take it to mean you don't think she's had a lot of success recently.

I'm not aware anyone has argued that she has.

You are correct.  Wins at any level are nonexistant.  If she had won an AJGA event or two I don't think it really changes the discussion.  She was great, then wasn't, and now may or may not get it back.

John Moore II

Re: Wie Forget ...
« Reply #549 on: August 20, 2008, 09:41:09 PM »
John Conley--Let me rephrase...What has she WON since the Am Publinx? Like I said, she did finish top 5 in some majors and finished 2nd in the Publinx the next year, and round of 16 at the Men's Publinx. But what tournaments has she won since she won the Publinx? None, so far as I can recall. And the reason she isn't "toiling in obscurity" is because she gets massive press coverage every time she leaves her house.

Sorry, the "I'm honestly asking" part didn't imply a rhetorical question.  I'll take it to mean you don't think she's had a lot of success recently.

I'm not aware anyone has argued that she has.

You are correct.  Wins at any level are nonexistant.  If she had won an AJGA event or two I don't think it really changes the discussion.  She was great, then wasn't, and now may or may not get it back.


No, what I meant with the first question is that if someone is going to say she has been successful at winning since the Publinx, please show me the winning results.

J. Ken Moore....I think the ONLY reason (other than her recent injury) Wie has not shown consistency on the LPGA tour is her lack of consistent playing. When she is able to bunch several exemptions together, and qualifies for a tourney or two to add to that mix, she has done quite well. 

I have little doubt that once she commits to playing that tour full time she will become the best American golfer on that tour.

She lacks consistency because she is not consistently playing...Thanks for stating the obvious ;D ;D  She should have committed to playing full time on the tour 2 or 3 years ago, and not fiddled around until now. Maybe she can be the best American on tour, but thats not really saying a whole lot anymore. Either way, she needs to learn how to win, and win often if she wants to be great.
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