[Tony_Chapman]

Glenn:

You threw my suggestion on getting Pelz out on the junkyard. That was the reason for my "get real" comment. Michelle Wie has no real short game to speak about -- her short putts from six feet and under are also way below what her peers are capable in consistently producing.

Her inconsistency with the flatsick is well documented and her both job yesterday at the Women's Open when carding a 9 demonstrrates a serious deficiency that needs a major overhaul.

End of story.

Matt -- I don't know about picking up Pelz. His prize pupil show how to make a 9 in a US Open recently as well. 

[Matt_Ward]

Tony:

Good point.

The difference is that Phil should know better and Michelle simply doesn't.

[Phil McDade]

How many golfers learned to win before the age of 18?

Not many.

I think 18 is a perfectly fine age to start learning to win..

Tiger and Jack, to name two

But agreed, the list ain't too long.

[Tony_Chapman]

How many golfers learned to win before the age of 18?

Not many.

I think 18 is a perfectly fine age to start learning to win..

Tiger and Jack, to name two

But agreed, the list ain't too long.

Phil -- Great point. I recently watched the HBO show "The Back Nine at Cherry Hills" which was really neat to watch for a kid born in 1976. Anyway....

They did a little piece on Hogan, Palmer and Nicklaus prior to the back nine piece and Nicklaus talks about playing the amateur circuit and having dinner with his dad one evening. Charlie pointed out something Jack did wrong during the round and Jack basically told him off. Jack said something to the effect about telling his father that he loved him, loved having his support, but that on the course he has to do it his way and that he couldn't have him analyzing everything he did on the golf course.

Me thinks Ms. Wie might do well with that approach as well.

[Garland Bayley]

...
The difference is that Phil should know better and Michelle simply doesn't.

I always find it extremely arrogant for someone to claim to know what another does or does not know.
 

[Dean Stokes]

Five pars in a row today. Don't write the Big Wiesy off yet.

[John_Conley]

Shel, no dig at all on Nause.  She had a GREAT score Thursday.  I think she was even lower today.  At an age that all of her contemporaries have stopped trying she's firing rounds in the mid 70s at the Open.  Awesome.

[John_Conley]

Great swing, can't putt...and that my friends is the end of the story

This comment is laughable.  She hasn't hit the ball straight for years.  The best putter in the world couldn't post scores to stay in the world Top 10 from these places.

She putted fine when she had six Top 5s in Majors over a 3-year period.  Yesterday Pepper said Annika has never been a good putter.  Hit it like Wie did at age 14 and 15 and putting doesn't matter.  Hogan-esque.

If she hits it well again she'll be fine.  Her putting may have prevented her from making a living as a male professional, but that's not her peer group.

[Dave_Miller]

How many golfers learned to win before the age of 18?

Not many.

I think 18 is a perfectly fine age to start learning to win..

Dave:
My reference wasn't to her age of 18 but where can this be accomplished.  Had she not turned pro she could have gained additional amateur experience and also perhaps experience in college.  Is the LPGA tour the place to learn to win and become tournament tuned.  I don't know I'm just asking.
Best
Dave

[Garland Bayley]

...
3. I don't like that the end of her amateur career seemed more about maximizing potential revenue than it did teaching her how to win. Could she have learned from, say, playing Pressel or the Pink Panther in the U.S. Women's Am even if she lost? I think so. ...

I don't get this! How is finishing second in the US W Am any more valuable than the seconds she collected in women's majors playing as an amateur.

[John_Conley]

Matt, she made 9 on the last at Interlachen (#9 in the event) because she hit a bad shot over the green and made matters worse by compounding the error.

Kinda like Mickelson at Torrey.

Now you're gonna tell me his wedgeplay sucks?

A few people told me that hole was going to do that to someone.  Happened to be Wie.  Seems a bit early to write her off careerwise.  This week sure, but she'll somehow recover from one bad hole.

[Craig Sweet]

Too bad for Wie that she lived in Hawaii while playing junior golf...it's an expensive trip to the mainland to beat up on other 12, 13,14,15,16,17 year olds....apparently Tad "what's his name" felt that as well when he turned pro last year at age 17....but getting back to Wie...she did win several tournaments while playing junior golf...so "how to win" is over rated....besides...how many men playing on tour have won anything at any level?  Maybe 70%?

Here's my take on the putting....the greens for this USGA event are running quite a bit faster than your typical LPGA event...I think some golfers are better able to adjust than others...

[Matt_Ward]

Garland:

Take the time to watch Michelle attempt to putt and unless you've been living in a dark closet it's painfully obvious to see what she really needs to work on for any real serious improvement.

John C:

Michelle is a deer blinded in the headlights when it comes to short game play and clearly short game putts of consequence. Watch her mechanics -- shall I call it that -- she really provides so little feel on touch shots of that sort.


Phil's story at TP was a simple one -- he was determined to play the role of fool in trying a shot with little percentage -- then compounding it again ... and again ... and again. Phil's situation is one of stupidity -- ditto the abandonement strategy of the driver. Michelle's appears to me one of slipshod mechanics and no real God-given sense of feel / touch.

By the way I didn't write her career off but you have people who are strangely silent now that were about to canonize her and place her beyond the likes of Mickey Wright and Annika Sorenstam.

[Matt_Cohn]

She's -1 through 8 today.

[rjsimper]

She's -1 through 8 today.

T-104!

[Garland Bayley]

Garland:

Take the time to watch Michelle attempt to putt and unless you've been living in a dark closet it's painfully obvious to see what she really needs to work on for any real serious improvement.
...

So Matt, when are you going to invite her to the place of your choice for a putt-off. Having seen her play, I am sure she has far more "feel" than you do. She is no Tiger Woods when it comes to the short game, but she certainly is an Annika S. And, Annika has won a thing or two.

[John_Conley]

John C:

Michelle is a deer blinded in the headlights when it comes to short game play and clearly short game putts of consequence. Watch her mechanics -- shall I call it that -- she really provides so little feel on touch shots of that sort.

Matt, I'm not silent at all.  Wie was worlds better than Mickey Wright, Annika Sorenstam, and anyone else as a teen.  How am I silent?  Kavanaugh's posts above about how girls age has a good deal of merit.  B.J. and his wife could tell little Michelle anything when she was 12.  Now that she's 18?

If you want to get on a golfer for lack of feel, don't single out Wie.  You must include Charlie Howell.  I know someone familiar with his game (Wie's too for that matter) and they said technically he's great but has trouble playing golf.  No feel.  Think of how Crenshaw won the Masters and that is beyond Howell.

I never said Wie was long on feel.  I've seen her hit it like butter and overpower courses.  If she does that again she'll return to the elite level.

I hope she makes the cut somehow.  Birdie on the hardest hole with three par 5s coming up in the next four holes.

[Mark Bourgeois]

By the way I didn't write her career off but you have people who are strangely silent now that were about to canonize her and place her beyond the likes of Mickey Wright and Annika Sorenstam.

Despite having zero potential to learn anything about architecture from exploring this topic...

According to Wikipedia, here are how many LPGA wins, combined, Mickey and Annika had at Michelle's age:

0, as in:
zero
nada
zilch
nil
squat

30 years from now Matto I will gladly accept your payout of one beer as we toast the winningest female golfer -- ever!

Well, at least the second winningest female golfer ever! That's close enough, right?

[Craig Sweet]

I was thinking she needs to shoot -4 today and get to -4 for the tournament to make the cut...should be interesting to see if she can go low on the front nine.

[Garland Bayley]

... The best advice she got was from Tiger and it was ignored. He said she needed to stay in the amateur ranks and learn to win.  This did not happen.  Is there a way for her to accomplish this now?  I just don't know.
Best
Dave

So Tiger gives great advice? Let me give you a bio. "She was the 2002 NCAA champion"
"In 2003 she won the U.S. Women's Amateur and was runner-up at the U. S. Women's Amateur Public Links."

Sounds like staying an amateur and learning to win to me! Where is she today? Playing the U. S. Women's Open and shooting 81-79 the first two days. I guess getting beat by a 13 year old at the public links must be the anti-dote for Tiger advice.

In case you don't know, the topic is Virada Nirapathpongporn.

[Dean Stokes]

... The best advice she got was from Tiger and it was ignored. He said she needed to stay in the amateur ranks and learn to win.  This did not happen.  Is there a way for her to accomplish this now?  I just don't know.
Best
Dave

So Tiger gives great advice? Let me give you a bio. "She was the 2002 NCAA champion"
"In 2003 she won the U.S. Women's Amateur and was runner-up at the U. S. Women's Amateur Public Links."

Sounds like staying an amateur and learning to win to me! Where is she today? Playing the U. S. Women's Open and shooting 81-79 the first two days. I guess getting beat by a 13 year old at the public links must be the anti-dote for Tiger advice.

In case you don't know, the topic is Virada Nirapathpongporn.

she won the pub links - her only big victory of a not too illustrious and shortened amateur career.

[John_Conley]

Garland, thanks for pointing that out.  Brittany Lang nearly won this thing as a Duke student three years ago.  Aree & Naree.  Too many more to name.

There aren't many like Inkster and Sorenstam that get more and more competitive as they age.  I'm interested in seeing what happens to the 32 or so South Koreans on the LPGA Tour.  Obviously they've jumped into the sport.  How many will want to work as hard at 30 as they do at 20?

[Phil McDade]

People keep bringing up Inkster, perhaps forgetting she was something of a prodigy herself. She had a very good junior career, with lots of wins in heavily competitive California, and was a collegiate All-American when she was 19. She won 3 US Ams before turning pro in her early 20s. She was considered to be one of the truly bright stars for women's golf when she was coming up, not entirely unlike Creamer and Pressel. That she's maintained her ability to be competitive post-children and well into her 40s is a credit to her, of course, but she's been good for a very long time.

[Glenn Spencer]

...
3. I don't like that the end of her amateur career seemed more about maximizing potential revenue than it did teaching her how to win. Could she have learned from, say, playing Pressel or the Pink Panther in the U.S. Women's Am even if she lost? I think so. ...

I don't get this! How is finishing second in the US W Am any more valuable than the seconds she collected in women's majors playing as an amateur.

Can someone post Creamer's USGA record as an amateur? I don't remember her at all. I know she won a bunch of AJGA stuff. Just asking.

[Ken Moum]

People keep bringing up Inkster, perhaps forgetting she was something of a prodigy herself. She had a very good junior career, with lots of wins in heavily competitive California, and was a collegiate All-American when she was 19. She won 3 US Ams before turning pro in her early 20s. She was considered to be one of the truly bright stars for women's golf when she was coming up, not entirely unlike Creamer and Pressel. That she's maintained her ability to be competitive post-children and well into her 40s is a credit to her, of course, but she's been good for a very long time.

Two points...

She won three CONSECUTIVE amateurs.

And she has basically had two careers. One before children and another one after.

She won two majors in her rookie year, and won 13 times in 1983--1989

Her first daughter was born in 1990 and her second daughter was born in 1994. She won only twice in the 1990 through 1996 seasons.

By 1997, she was back and won 16 times in the next ten seasons.

I can't think of any LPGA player who did something like that.

K

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