2008 Mayo & Sligo Tour: ENNISCRONE GC

[Sean_A]

Talk about a world away in design philosophy from Carne.  Enniscrone is much more a modern links where as Carne is modern, but old fashioned due to a lack of heavy machinery use.  Like my beef about not enough architect intervention at Carne, perhaps there was too much at Enniscrone.  Many of the greens have this built up look with waves of mounding around them.  In fact, some of these greens look similar to the work done at Hoylake not too long ago. Perhaps Steel was in a groove.  The current course has fully 6 Steel holes and 12 Hackett holes. Anyway, Enniscrone is a majestic course that has been transformed in recent years by using the dunes to great effect.  However, the walks between greens & tees because of the dunes are one of the drawbacks folks don't really think about as touristas.  In other words, Enniscrone is a tough walk.  Below are a handful of photos to wet your appetite. 

Approach to #2, a long par 5 which legs sharply right and up a hill.  All the par 5s at Enniscrone have something about them which make it difficult to reach in two despite their relatively short yardage. 


#3 is a good par 3 into the dunes.  The falloff in the rear is quite severe. 


The 4th is a double dogleg par 5.  If you take on the left corner with a bit of draw its possible to shoot a long way down the fairway and have an iron in.  We now head down to the flatter land for the terrific 5th hole.  Its a legger to the right, but not overly long.  Its tough to get the ball on the green and still hold because it angles away from the fairway.  This is the tee shot.


A large hump in the green protects a back left hole location.


The 6th is another good flat hole, but it does have a sting in its tail.  Longer hitters can take the line of the right edge of the bunkers and bang away.  The hole was quite tame during this trip, but I recall hitting a 3 wood home last time.  The green is a shelf type jobbie.  One has to feel comfortable hitting a sand wedge from a tight lie if they hit a good drive.  The 7th comes back on the 6th.  A shortish par 5 with a blind second. The green is quite unique as it juts out like a peninsula.  The 8th is a medium length par 3 slightly downhill.  The 9th is a toughie.  The wind blows toward the water on the left and the fairway runs this way as well.  The fairway is wider at the layup position, but then one faces the approach which is even more narrow than the drive.  Very clever hole.  One is tempted to bail right for the approach, but there is a hidden bunker lurking.  I really like these sorts of holes which try to eat at your confidence, but aren't long.

#10 is fairly straight forward with a gathering drive.  The 11th is a shortish uphill par 3 that sort of gathers in high dell.  Like Carne, Enniscrone has its funky back to back holes, 12 & 13.  I spose flat bellies can have a go at at the 12th, but I don't see a way to hold it unless a snap hook is the planned shot.  Even the approach is intimidating because its all uphill and you don't want to go too far past the flag.  13 is back down the hill and turns right.  One can definitely have a go for this green even though its blind - its a punchbowl of sorts.  A view of the green after a layup.


#14 is yet another of the seemingly endless par 5s.  It takes two good whacks to get into decent position for the approach.  The green is another with interest.  The entire right side drops away.


The course continues to gather pace with the all world 15th.  Its best to get the drive out to the right because a drive down the middle leaves precious little to aim at.


A closer look at the green.  The concept is so easy to angle greens away and tuck them behind stuff.  Why isn't it done more often?


We finally play the last par 5 on 16.  Once again, the flat belly can go blind over the top to go for the green if he can carry the ball some 230 yards uphill into the wind.  The approach to #16.


#17 is a lovely little hole.  I don't have a clue why a fake dune isn't built to block out the crap.


18 is a new hole which comes back near the clubhouse and it isn't without merit. 

I don't think its any great surprise that I am dead keen on Enniscrone.  The course offers a tremendous variety of par 4s and par 5s.  The land is well used to take advantage of water on both sides of the course and of the flatter part of the property.  The greens have interest and for the most part the design allows for wind.  Generally, I think the man made work flows well with the surrounds and with the older parts of the course. However, I didn't like the somewhat long green to tee walks and the heaving nature of all the par 5s. The course is as good as I remembered and the welcome couldn't have been warmer, but the recent sharp price hikes mean it is unlikely I shall return.  2008

Rosses Point
http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,35264.msg711429.html#msg711429

Strandhill
http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,35261.msg711110.html#msg711110

Carne
http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,35268.msg711175.html#msg711175

Ciao

[Tony_Muldoon]

If I could crop the bottom half off this picture I'd hang it on the inside of my locker door.  Golf porn.

Enniscrone was "The Brothers" choice from RP, Enicrone and Carne.  Sean, can you tell us more about the reasons why it calls you back? In photo's it looks slightly flatter and less interesting that the others.

[Tom Huckaby]

Paved cart paths?

"Buggies this way" signs?

Say it isn't so.  It's been 8 years now since I've played golf in Ireland.... has it become that Americanized?

[Sean_A]

If I could crop the bottom half off this picture I'd hang it on the inside of my locker door.  Golf porn.

Enniscrone was "The Brothers" choice from RP, Enicrone and Carne.  Sean, can you tell us more about the reasons why it calls you back? In photo's it looks slightly flatter and less interesting that the others.

Tony

I liked all the courses and would return to each.  I should also mention that I think Donegal is a terrific course as well.  There are a few reasons why I prefered Enniscrone.  First, like the story of the three bears, the terrain at Enniscrone wasn't too hilly or too flat.  There is still quite a significant amount of ground movement.  A few drawbacks might be that the walk isn't terribly clever and that nearly all the holes route between dunes with very little of going up and over once in a while.  Secondly, as a set, the greens at Enniscrone were more interesting than the others. Carne had some wild sites with cool kick ins (if the rough were down a bit), but once on the greens they were no great shakes and the same could be said for the others with the obvious exception of a handful at Strandhill.  I reckon ole Donald was quite clever in creating something which stood out in the area - though I think he went overboard a bit.  See the back of #18 green for an example of not knowing when to stop.  

My preferences as of today are

Strandhill
Enniscrone/Rosses Point/Donegal/Carne




You will be hard pressed to find five links of such varying character and quality for the sort of money they ask anywhere in the world.  

AwsHuckster

More and more clubs are preparing their paths to withstand a bit of harsh rain and take cart/trolley traffic better.  I personally prefer the more seashell look if possible or the pebble look, but I know the pebble paths get washed out and need repairing more often.  That said, all these clubs rented out buggies.  I even stooped to renting electric trolleys on a few days.  It really does save the back a bit.  I may get one of those babies, but the thing is, I rarely play that many days on the trot back home.

Ciao

[Kevin Pallier]

My preferences are

Enniscrone

Rosses Point/Donegal
Carne
Strandhill


You will be hard pressed to find five links of such varying character and quality for the sort of money they ask anywhere in the world. 

Sean

I haven't played Carne or Stranhill am interested to hear the green fee rate for the above nowdays ?

When I was there (a few years ago now) I thought Donegal, Sligo and Enniscrone offered the best "value for money" in GB&I. I think it was less than 60 quid to play all three.

[Sean Walsh]

Sean,

Two stars out of how many?

I loved the course especially the 9th.  Also the 16th must be one of the most beautiful holes I have ever played.

[Sean_A]

Kevin

Carne charges about 65 Euros for the day, but if you pay in advance the price drops to 35 Euros.  Strandhill was 40 Euros for the day.  Enniscrone is 70 Euros for a game I think.  Though one of the great things about golf in Ireland is how laid back the clubs are.  We rolled into Enniscrone the day of an Open Comp.  The lady asked if we wanted to sign up for 25 Euros.  It was a bit of a no brainer so we did it.  She let us stay in our own groups so more or less the club lost 45 Euros X 9.  In the end, our green fees for the 5 days of golf were 225 Euros.  I know I can't touch this sort of price in England/Scotland for 5 days/5 courses quality golf. 

Sean

I use the Rihcelin System (a copy of the Michelin Guide) of max 3 stars and lesser rating of a recommendation.  Even a recommendation means the course is very good.  To get 1 star is excellent.  I am very stingy with the 2 stars - only having given out 7 in total.  I have yet to see a 3 star course.

Ciao 

[Philip Gawith]

Thanks for the interesting tour Sean - I definitely need to go along there. Tell me a bit more what you mean by a "peninsula" green?

[Rich Goodale]

Sean how well do the wilder Steel greens (e.g. 2, 3, 4, 14, 15, 16, 18) fit in with the more subtle Hackett ones?  In general, in your opinion, which of the two architects made better use of the land which they were given?

Rich

PS--I like the "Rhicelin Scale" phrasing--I think I'll steal it!
PPS--fully agree with your ranking of Enniscrone over Carne

rfg

[Mike Sweeney]

 In general, in your opinion, which of the two architects made better use of the land which they were given?

Rich,

Apples and oranges. Steele had the budget/money to go (more) into the dunes. Eddie did not. The new clubhouse is what really made Enniscrone what it is today, because now they can book tours which are profitable, thus they could afford Steele. I am really shocked to see all those buildings around 18. It appears The Celtic Tiger is finally reaching the Northwest, which is good for the locals, but bad for those of us who love remote golf. I hope to get my son there in the next year or two.

Ran and others have been critical of the greens at Carne as too basic. Again it was probably a money issue more than creativity. I never played the all Eddie course at Enniscrone, but I would guess that Eddie would approve the integrated greens if it brought in more money to the town. That is why he built courses and charged such low fees.

Eddie really is a Patron Saint out there.

Sean,

As always, thanks for the pictures.

[Ally Mcintosh]

 In general, in your opinion, which of the two architects made better use of the land which they were given?

It appears The Celtic Tiger is finally reaching the Northwest, which is good for the locals, but bad for those of us who love remote golf. I hope to get my son there in the next year or two.

Not if you read today's news, Mike... We are now officially in a recession and the construction industry has gone to the dogs...

[Sean_A]

Thanks for the interesting tour Sean - I definitely need to go along there. Tell me a bit more what you mean by a "peninsula" green?

Philip

I spose peninsula green is a bit highfalutin.  All I really menat was the green has a drop off on essentially three sides and is connected on the one side to the dune ridge.  I don't think I have seen anything quite like it before. 

Rich

I don't know anywhere near enough about routing to say if Enniscrone used the land better.  There is so much happening at both properties that it really takes amateurs out of the equation for helping with the routing - even Tom P.  I suspect the budgets were a big part of the reason for the differences such as many grade level greens at Carne compared to the many built up ones Enniscrone.  I do think that Steel did a pretty good job of melding old with new.  There was just enough funk out there to keep it and add the new stuff on without any obvious breaks in style.  However, I would say if there is a bit of problem with styles I would say 9 & 10 stand out as culprits.  I think Steel should have tucked #9 green around the corner to the right where the bunker is.  This would have brought the water more into play for those looking to get an angle at the green.  10, well, just funk up the green a bit and as the French say Bob's yer uncle, job sorted etc etc. 

Mike

That montrosity is a new hotel and I suspect they have developed holiday cottages as well by the look of things.  In this day and age, only the Irish and Americans would let that thing go up in such a lovely spot.

Ciao

[Tom Huckaby]

Sean - I guess the paths are fine - heck I saw a lot of those even way back when... crushed rock and the like.  No hassles there.  What has me weeping is the presence of "buggies"; I had heard that this was becoming commonplace, but seeing it at a remote place like Enniscrone, well... I had just hoped that places like this would remain pure.

I have zero problem with taking buggies, hell I do it all the time.  Just here, not there.  Stupid, I know.

BTW the Richelin Scale is fine and dandy, but what if I ask you which is better between two courses given the same rating?

TH

[Rich Goodale]

Sean

The club told me that 9 and 10 were original Eddie holes, so blame him, not The Donald.

Rich

[Sean_A]

Sean

The club told me that 9 and 10 were original Eddie holes, so blame him, not The Donald.

Rich

Rich

Yes, thats right.  I was suggesting that Steel may have wanted to alter these holes a bit to have them fit into the final package a bit better. 

AwsHuckabilly

The carts are a bit of a menace, but they are indicative of a tough walk.  I think some folks may be put off a second round at Carne/Enniscrone if it means walking.

I assume you mean between Enniscrone and Carne - which is better.  I think Enniscrone is better (one of the few very best courses I have seen) and I prefer it to Carne, but Carne is still a darn good course and shouldn't be missed. 

Ciao

[Tom Huckaby]

Sean:

Oh I get why they want carts, why they are needed, etc.; it just doesn't make me feel any better about the whole thing.

And as for two courses, I didn't have any two particularly in mind; rather, it was just a comment as what I see as the weakness of a Michelin rating system for golf courses.  It just doesn't go far enough.  Mind you, in the end it likely is preferable to the silliness of ranking courses 1-100...  it's just not perfect, that's all; the very real reason being if I knew nothing about Ireland and Scotland and had to prioritize, your star rankings alone would only get me half way there.

But no matter... it's just another thing Rich and I argued about years ago.  Nothing ever really does get settled.

TH

[Sean_A]

Sean:

Oh I get why they want carts, why they are needed, etc.; it just doesn't make me feel any better about the whole thing.

And as for two courses, I didn't have any two particularly in mind; rather, it was just a comment as what I see as the weakness of a Michelin rating system for golf courses.  It just doesn't go far enough.  Mind you, in the end it likely is preferable to the silliness of ranking courses 1-100...  it's just not perfect, that's all; the very real reason being if I knew nothing about Ireland and Scotland and had to prioritize, your star rankings alone would only get me half way there.

But no matter... it's just another thing Rich and I argued about years ago.  Nothing ever really does get settled.

TH

Huckster

I like the system because it doesn't decree absolutes other than to say that one group of courses is superior to another - this is tough enough!  Trying to pin point exact places is just too difficult and at that level far too many things come into play to calculate with any accuracy.  For instance, I don't buy for a minute that being treated well and hanging out in lovely clubhouse surrounds doesn't influence opinions or even if you had one beer too many the night before etc etc.  The scale works for me because I can get an idea of what to expect without having to compare and contrast with the next on the list.  I need to compare with what others think is a course in another league (up or down) and decide if its reasonable. 

Ciao

[Tom Huckaby]

Sean:

Oh I get why they want carts, why they are needed, etc.; it just doesn't make me feel any better about the whole thing.

And as for two courses, I didn't have any two particularly in mind; rather, it was just a comment as what I see as the weakness of a Michelin rating system for golf courses.  It just doesn't go far enough.  Mind you, in the end it likely is preferable to the silliness of ranking courses 1-100...  it's just not perfect, that's all; the very real reason being if I knew nothing about Ireland and Scotland and had to prioritize, your star rankings alone would only get me half way there.

But no matter... it's just another thing Rich and I argued about years ago.  Nothing ever really does get settled.

TH

Huckster

I like the system because it doesn't decree absolutes other than to say that one group of courses is superior to another - this is tough enough!  Trying to pin point exact places is just too difficult and at that level far too many things come into play to calculate with any accuracy.  For instance, I don't buy for a minute that being treated well and hanging out in lovely clubhouse surrounds doesn't influence opinions or even if you had one beer too many the night before etc etc.  The scale works for me because I can get an idea of what to expect without having to compare and contrast with the next on the list.  I need to compare with what others think is a course in another league (up or down) and decide if its reasonable. 

Ciao

I like the system also.

Just like I say, it doesn't tell me exactly which courses I'll need to go to if I have to prioritize.

And that's just fine... in the end I could just ask you.  So the perfect system as I see it is the Richelin Stars plus Arble commentary.  Just don't get too attached to the stars and get lazy with the commentary, that's all.

TH

[Sean_A]

Sean:

Oh I get why they want carts, why they are needed, etc.; it just doesn't make me feel any better about the whole thing.

And as for two courses, I didn't have any two particularly in mind; rather, it was just a comment as what I see as the weakness of a Michelin rating system for golf courses.  It just doesn't go far enough.  Mind you, in the end it likely is preferable to the silliness of ranking courses 1-100...  it's just not perfect, that's all; the very real reason being if I knew nothing about Ireland and Scotland and had to prioritize, your star rankings alone would only get me half way there.

But no matter... it's just another thing Rich and I argued about years ago.  Nothing ever really does get settled.

TH

Huckster

I like the system because it doesn't decree absolutes other than to say that one group of courses is superior to another - this is tough enough!  Trying to pin point exact places is just too difficult and at that level far too many things come into play to calculate with any accuracy.  For instance, I don't buy for a minute that being treated well and hanging out in lovely clubhouse surrounds doesn't influence opinions or even if you had one beer too many the night before etc etc.  The scale works for me because I can get an idea of what to expect without having to compare and contrast with the next on the list.  I need to compare with what others think is a course in another league (up or down) and decide if its reasonable. 

Ciao

I like the system also.

Just like I say, it doesn't tell me exactly which courses I'll need to go to if I have to prioritize.

And that's just fine... in the end I could just ask you.  So the perfect system as I see it is the Richelin Stars plus Arble commentary.  Just don't get too attached to the stars and get lazy with the commentary, that's all.

TH

Huckster

You shouldn't take my word for anything.  I have some wierd likes and dislikes where golf, wine and women are concerned.  I have been told that anybody who could think Princes & Pennard are in the same general class as Portmarnock and Portrush belongs on the looney house.  So you do yer thing baby, you gotta right.

Ciao 

[Tom Huckaby]

Sean:

Of course in the end I shall make my own decisions, as well as understand that all advice comes with biases and preferences.  I just figured someone willing to rate courses would also be willing to give advice to weary travellers.

 

[mike_malone]

 Sean,

   I love 5-9. I just think that both Carne and Enniscrone become weak as one goes into the dunes. By comparison, I think Ballybunion and Portstewart use them more interestingly. I find that the offer to carry the dunes with a benefit from the risk is more enticing than to just avoid the dunes. They become like some form of "eye candy" then.

[Rich Goodale]

Agree, Mayday.  Also, it's tough to find great natrual greensites in huge dunes, whereas they abound in the quieter areas such as inhabited by 5-9 at Enniscrone.

[mike_malone]

 Rich,

   The greensite location seems also to be solved better at Portstewart and Ballybunion. This reminds of the problems for the Cashen course as well. It is right next door to the Old course and yet the drives are awkward, the greensites can be too high and the walks between green and tee exhausting.

[Sean_A]

Sean,

   I love 5-9. I just think that both Carne and Enniscrone become weak as one goes into the dunes. By comparison, I think Ballybunion and Portstewart use them more interestingly. I find that the offer to carry the dunes with a benefit from the risk is more enticing than to just avoid the dunes. They become like some form of "eye candy" then.

Mayday

I think Enniscrone offers plenty of options to carry dunes if you so wish.  #s, 4, 7, 12, 13, 15 & 18 all give you a chance to go blind.  This is one of the main differences between a modern links and on old one.  Many old links have a few holes which require a shot into the unknown.  There is nothing wrong with that, but often times, the best holes on these courses aren't the blind ones.  They get a lot of press because of blindness.  For instance, I look at Prestwick's famous 17th and can think its a cracker for sure, but Helwick's is without a doubt a better hole.  This is no indictment of blindness, just pointing out that blindness in and of itself does not make a hole.  There has to be another element to give it creedence other than simply being blind.  Hence the reason I think many of the famous blind holes have some funkiness about them.   

Its interesting that Steel ate up loads of the dunes holes with par 5s - I think 4 out 5 par 5s are in the dunes.  Really, only one, the 16th is a real quality hole.  The others are a bit abrupt for my liking though one can rip a drive over the left corner on #4 and end up miles down the fairway to be left with a tricky right to left shot in up the hill.  Of the dune hole I think #s 1, 3, 11, 12, 13, 15 (especially - this is a great, great hole), 16 and 17 work well.   

Ciao

[mike_malone]

 Sean,

   15 and 18 have only modest dunes that provide a slight angle to play. These low dunes allow your mind's eye to visualize the landing area. You don't have 13 pictured and I can't call it to memory.13 is a very short hole that leaves a wedge to the green after a layup; why bother driving into oblivion?