2008 Mayo & Sligo Tour: STRANDHILL GC

[Sean_A]

Perhaps teh club has fallen on hard times?  When I was there the green was fine. 


I agree, from the tee it is hard to know where to go and most will go too far left.  Of course, the next time everybody knows better.  The hole is far too cool and original to even suggest personal issues should see it altered.


Ciao

[Mark Pearce]

It certainly didn't feel as if the club was stuck for cash!  The other 17 greens were all fine, so I assume (perhaps wrongly) that the confined nature of 13 green had led to its poor state.  I've certainly never seen another hole like it.

[Thomas Dai]

I agree with Sean. After all we weren't playing Dunfanaghy.

Garland,


What did you make of Dunfanaghy?


Here's Donal's Dunfanaghy photo-tour from awhile back - http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,49256.0.html


Atb

[Ally Mcintosh]

A few answers / clarifications:

There is no intent to materially alter the 13th. All we're going to do is fill in the bunker marooned right of the fairway and put a hybrid style blow out more in the line of play in to the dune just beside. Although I would in time like to remove the ramped exit path to the right of the green. This in turn would enlarge the green ever so slightly whilst making the site look much better / more natural.

I tend to agree with Sean that it's an individual hole so why change it.

Sean - no intention to remove holes 10 & 11 by the road. We've just completely rebunkered them to add in a few strategic choices, particularly on 11. We may (and this is yet to be decided and dependent on new holes going ahead) extend the 11th through to the existing 9th green site. 9 will go in entirety. For all intents and purposes, so will 4.

As for the 7th, we are tackling that next month but it is not a re-routing. The bones of the hole is excellent. We are just rebunkering it, probably shrinking the green very slightly in the process. Also new mowing lines.

Thomas, the 16th may appear blandish but with the second most rumpled fairway (after the 5th) and with the bay backing the green, it has big potential. So we are widening the fairway, pushing it left and putting a very small, cheeky centreline bunker in the middle right of the fairway with a new trench bunker front left of the green. Safe way off the tee will make it play more of a gentle dogleg to the right.

Mark - they don't have plenty of money. Current methodology is the club fundraises for 6 months just to pay us for 2 weeks work. Then start again and repeat process.

Ally

[Thomas Dai]

Ally,
Thanks for the clarifications. I like the sound of the envisaged changes to the 16th....perhaps my 'bland' thoughts were influenced by the heavy drizzle!......and the pathway mod to the 13th sounds good as well.
I look forward to returning sometime and seeing how things have gone.
Atb

[Garland Bayley]

Now that I am back home, I can comment a little further on Strandhill, especially the 13th and 15th.
It seems to me that 13 requires thinking and judgement to determine what you can get out of the hole given each individual circumstance. In that sense, it is quite a good hole. 15 can be difficult if all you have in your bag are straight shots or shots turning right. However, turning the ball left with control would give the player an advantage on the hole. Both holes can be a bit of a problem on the first or next few plays, but I think they would become holes the knowledgeable player would look forward to each round.


I also note that Finnegan calls out both as interesting holes at the course in his golf travel books.


And, a member of my club that used to work with a company with a branch in Sligo thinks they are the most memorable and enjoyable holes on the course.

[Sean_A]

Garland


It doesn't much matter if folks like or dislike 13...its a hole that is far too interesting and unusual to debate its merits or faults.  The hole is a definite keeper full stop. 


I have no idea what the fuss is concerning 15.   It reminds me a ton of Cruden Bay's 7th.


I am very surprised there were no comments concerning 14.


Ciao

[Garland Bayley]

Garland


It doesn't much matter if folks like or dislike 13...its a hole that is far too interesting and unusual to debate its merits or faults.  The hole is a definite keeper full stop. 


I have no idea what the fuss is concerning 15.   It reminds me a ton of Cruden Bay's 7th.


I am very surprised there were no comments concerning 14.


Ciao

14? Narrow green like Bandon Trails 14 that is hard to hit and hold? No controversy there, I'm sure.

[Garland Bayley]

I'm just back from a quick tour of the North-West which included Rosses Point, Murvagh, Enniscrone, Carne and my first visit to Strandhill.

I won't comment on the others as they are better known but I think Strandhill should be a must stop for anyone in the area. As it stands, it is the weakest of the five although if they got rid of 9, 10 & 11 and built in to the dunes at the back (which they own), that could definitely change. However, even without that, it is fun, fun, fun with some pretty great green complexes that are cut on existing contours at grade level and some flatter plateau greens (less admirable) that are more than likely the work of Eddie Hackett by the look of them.

I think Sean is more in to big dunes than I am. I enjoyed the front nine most with 4 being the only weak hole and 3 and 9 being merely OK. The rest were all good to excellent and No.5 is all world in my mind with a high angled tee shot to the most rumpled fairway I have seen anywhere and a semi-blind approach (flag-stick only) to an excellent green. 10 & 11 are average (playing up and down) and would make a perfect spot for a driving range. 12 plays up and left to a skyline green and is pretty good. I've yet to make my mind up on 13 which is definite quirk to the smallest green I have seen (guess under 200m2) placed between two dunes (reminiscent of The Dell at Lahinch but with some visibility). Quite liked the par-3 14th but also unsure of the big dune 15th which plays to one of those flat elevated Hackett plateaus. 16, 17 and 18 are all pretty good holes in my book.

To be honest with you, I think Strandhill could be an absolute cracker with a little budget and previous mentioned moderations behind it. The ground game is alive and well there, that's for sure.

Perhaps Ally can edit the picture and show us what mods he is thinking of.


BingRouting_zpssfnr1qf0 by Garland Bayley, on Flickr


Here is the unique #13. The dunes beside the entrance are quite high (perhaps 20 feet guessing from memory).


Strandhill13_zpsbelyphfs by Garland Bayley, on Flickr

[Garland Bayley]

Ally

Its a neat little course eh?  I enjoyed it immensely despite some lame holes and a few which should be far better (7 & 8 especially).  I like the 1st, 2nd, 5th, 6th 8th, 14th and 18th best so I am surprised you say I like the bigger dunes - I don't tend to unless tempered with flatter holes as a counterbalance.  The hole which really intrigues me is #8.  If they would just cut down some rough for this blind shot I think it could be an all-world short par 4.  On the other side of the coin, #7, on the prime land was dead boring.

I don't think the course needs to use the huge dunes, just work on what already exists and make sure they are getting the best out of the land. 

Ciao

I should note that I didn't find #7 dead boring. With all the movement in the ground there is always significant interest for me.


20160906_083117Strandhill_zps3bmvrw4f by Garland Bayley, on Flickr

[Ally Mcintosh]

Garland,

I'm away from my hard drive for the next week but will throw up a diagram when I return.

As it happens, we are back down doing two weeks work at the end of October and that will include rebunkering the 7th, 13th and 14th holes.

Regards the 7th from your photo below, I never really understood why Sean didn't like it but it does need a little definition and strategy. So we're reconfiguring the fairway line slightly, adding a fairway bunker on the right, an approach bunker on the left and removing the two green-side bunkers on the right to replace with one that eats in to the huge green a little more. Green-side bunker front left will remain.

Since I posted my comments in 2010, I've become rather fond of the 10th hole which has some great ground movement.

Ally

[Sean_A]

There is zero strategy to #7...straight with no emphasis for hitting it anywhere.  Thats only part of the problem...the hole occupies THE PRIME SPOT ON THE PROPERTY and it is a totally forgettable hole.  Its unforgivable that given the location and terrain, this is the hole that was designed...its crackers....very amateurish.

To me 10 is much the better hole because of the temptation with a severe penalty lurking left.

Ciao

[Garland Bayley]

When I look at the aerial view of the course, I see the club has limited resources as they are lengthening holes by moving tees back. It appears to me that one way to enhance the 7th, could be to lengthen the 6th by moving the green closer to the sea, and moving the 7th tee similarly. But it costs more to move greens. Also, having visited once my suggestion may not be valid if there is no suitable green site for the 6th to move to.


Hopefully Ally's rebunkering the 7th will remove some of Sean's boredom.

[Garland Bayley]

Garland


It doesn't much matter if folks like or dislike 13...its a hole that is far too interesting and unusual to debate its merits or faults.  The hole is a definite keeper full stop. 


I have no idea what the fuss is concerning 15.   It reminds me a ton of Cruden Bay's 7th.

Strandhill15_zpsjcduraqd by Garland Bayley, on Flickr

I am very surprised there were no comments concerning 14.


Ciao

Strandhill14_zpsqgn8phlz by Garland Bayley, on Flickr

Anyone care to comment? Pretty narrow green makes it hard for directionally challenged golfers like me to hit.


What's future bunkering planned for 14 Ally?

[Ally Mcintosh]

Garland,

Thank you for acknowledging that you only visited once. Ulrich had redesigned the 27 holes at Carne on the strength of a wet weekend.

In principle (by master plan) your idea is a sound one. But there are a few reasons why it doesn't quite work:

Firstly, the topography doesn't allow for the sixth hole extension you suggest and anyway, the current sixth green site is a cracker. The proposed tee site for 7 is being eaten away by erosion at an alarming rate as well and on top of that, you cannot hold grass up there because of sand blow from Shelley Valley behind. Finally, I don't believe it would improve the 7th, taking the visibility of the green site away from the tee.

As always, every decision when designing is balancing the most positives against the least negatives.

I did actually look at moving the 6th green left which would give a beautiful hole from the tee. Then placing a really cool par-3 teeing from the right of current 6 green across the hollow to a green backed by the Atlantic. Following with the 7th from where you suggest. The idea there was to buy space around 2, 3 and 4 where there are big internal safety and speed of play issues. But despite it working really well on paper, the sand blow and erosion make it too risky an option.

Sean - you are far too hard on 7. Throw out an idea. I've still got time to implement it.

Ally

[Sean_A]

Ally


Obviously you aren't satisfied with #7 or it wouldn't be targeted for work. I assume the tee nor green can be moved closer to the water otherwise the hole is a serious head sctatcher.  I would attempt to use the terrain at an angle so balls can be shoved either way that makes sense from the position of the tee, then angle the green which welcomes the correct line and perhaps make the green a bit smaller.  The hole now doesn't have any angle merits to take advantage of the terrain...the hole is okay despite the architecture...and the green is not stellar. As I say, the hole should be special, now its just okay and that isn't anywhere near good enough for the prime location on the course.   


Ciao

[Thomas Dai]

1st etc - like the new bunkering although never saw the old
4th-5th - look forward to hearing/seeing how things progress

7th - like the sound of Ally's ideas.
8th and 9th - could they be joined together, ie play 8th tee to 9th green and add yet another additional new hole behind the current 4th?
13th - add some simple aiming aids, eg white stones on the dunes maybe? Envisaged bunker and green/path mods noted. Green is tiny but it's been there a long time. Something tells me this is very, very nearly a great hole but some piece in the holes jigsaw is missing. Not sure what though!
14th - seemed a nice hole as is
15th - hole doesn't balance for me...lay-up off the tee and then a maybe even longer very uphill shot to the volcano green. Would it be possible for the mowing lines down the left side to be adjusted so longer left side tee shots are possible for all rather than just the longer hitters who can fly the corner rough/mounds?
16th - Ally's thoughts sound good.
17th - nice new bunkering on the left
18th - needs a wee tweek, not sure quite what, something visual, maybe to do with the maintenance buildings.


These are thoughts based on the comments made above and on only one play. Those who've played Strandhill more or are members may well think differently, which is fine...on further plays my thoughts would probably change.


Strandhill is a pretty fine course even as it is. Lots for archie fans to look at plus sensational scenery for those who are maybe more keen on that aspect of the game. A course that should be better known. Hopefully it will be.
 
Look forward to returning some day.


Atb

[Ally Mcintosh]

Hi Sean,

Yes - On 7, neither the tee nor the green can be moved nearer the sea for practical reasons. But in the case of the tee, a couple of golfing reasons too (longer walk from 6th green, reduced visibility). You are right in saying I think the hole can be improved. But we are redoing the bunker scheme on the whole course so it's just one of eighteen that will change. We are however intending to bring angles in to the strategy of the hole so you should certainly notice an improvement that way.

Garland, 14 is pretty skinny for sure. We'll give a tiny bit more room by taking off an intrusive dune nose on the right and by filling in the left bunker and replacing with a short grass run-off. We also intend to fill in the front bunker and replace it with one pushed in to the dune on the right.

Mr.Thomas, there is a considerable dearth of room around 8 green, 12 tee, 11 green and hole 9 so absolutely no way to combine 8 and 9 even if we wanted to.

There is also no further room to build another hole behind 4 green without descending in to the dune slack. There you have 60 acres to play with but will never receive planning. In addition, I commented that to go down there, you'd need to build minimum 4 extra holes so the transition felt worthwhile and not disconnected from the rest of the course.

Ally

[Thomas Dai]

Ally,


Thanks for this. I am now suitably chastised and enlightened!


Atb

[Ally Mcintosh]

I hope I didn't appear to be chastising you.... I must change my tone.

[Sean_A]

Hi Sean,

Yes - On 7, neither the tee nor the green can be moved nearer the sea for practical reasons. But in the case of the tee, a couple of golfing reasons too (longer walk from 6th green, reduced visibility). You are right in saying I think the hole can be improved. But we are redoing the bunker scheme on the whole course so it's just one of eighteen that will change. We are however intending to bring angles in to the strategy of the hole so you should certainly notice an improvement that way.

Garland, 14 is pretty skinny for sure. We'll give a tiny bit more room by taking off an intrusive dune nose on the right and by filling in the left bunker and replacing with a short grass run-off. We also intend to fill in the front bunker and replace it with one pushed in to the dune on the right.

Mr.Thomas, there is a considerable dearth of room around 8 green, 12 tee, 11 green and hole 9 so absolutely no way to combine 8 and 9 even if we wanted to.

There is also no further room to build another hole behind 4 green without descending in to the dune slack. There you have 60 acres to play with but will never receive planning. In addition, I commented that to go down there, you'd need to build minimum 4 extra holes so the transition felt worthwhile and not disconnected from the rest of the course.

Ally

Ally


I am sure improvements can be made to many holes, its just that I had pegged as one of the holes in dire need of attention...same for 8...that can be a great hole with some help.


Ciao

[Ally Mcintosh]

Hi Sean,

Yes - On 7, neither the tee nor the green can be moved nearer the sea for practical reasons. But in the case of the tee, a couple of golfing reasons too (longer walk from 6th green, reduced visibility). You are right in saying I think the hole can be improved. But we are redoing the bunker scheme on the whole course so it's just one of eighteen that will change. We are however intending to bring angles in to the strategy of the hole so you should certainly notice an improvement that way.

Garland, 14 is pretty skinny for sure. We'll give a tiny bit more room by taking off an intrusive dune nose on the right and by filling in the left bunker and replacing with a short grass run-off. We also intend to fill in the front bunker and replace it with one pushed in to the dune on the right.

Mr.Thomas, there is a considerable dearth of room around 8 green, 12 tee, 11 green and hole 9 so absolutely no way to combine 8 and 9 even if we wanted to.

There is also no further room to build another hole behind 4 green without descending in to the dune slack. There you have 60 acres to play with but will never receive planning. In addition, I commented that to go down there, you'd need to build minimum 4 extra holes so the transition felt worthwhile and not disconnected from the rest of the course.

Ally

Ally


I am sure improvements can be made to many holes, its just that I had pegged as one of the holes in dire need of attention...same for 8...that can be a great hole with some help.


Ciao

We've already reworked the 8th green complex, Sean. Removed front bunker, removed left bunker and shaped as grass hollow. Removed two bunkers on right, replaced with one more visible, closer to the green. And reshaped the area so that balls feed in and the green flows more naturally to the bunker (false edge on green pad before).

I've left it open whether we will do work further back in landing zone. The tee will definitely be reshaped in time.

You had thoughts on this hole, didn't you? Remind me.

Ally

[JJShanley]

I recall sitting in the clubhouse over lunch in June 2012 thinking that 6 would be a great opening hole, and 5 a super closer.  Thoughts?

[Garland Bayley]

I recall sitting in the clubhouse over lunch in June 2012 thinking that 6 would be a great opening hole, and 5 a super closer.  Thoughts?

Strandhill05_zps1tun0j2q by Garland Bayley, on Flickr


Strandhill06_zpsghmbjiux by Garland Bayley, on Flickr


I liked the current opener, and I would like to have experienced/seen the closer in better weather than blinding wind and rain.

[Ally Mcintosh]

I recall sitting in the clubhouse over lunch in June 2012 thinking that 6 would be a great opening hole, and 5 a super closer.  Thoughts?

If the new holes receive planning, 6 would become the new opening hole.

18 would remain as the finisher however.