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Mark Bourgeois

Golf House Club (Elie)
« on: June 21, 2008, 07:49:41 AM »
Let's get discussion and pics going on this thread.

For me, the great star of Elie is the routing.  A round at Elie feels like something more than a typical out and back links experience.  In roughly chronological order, the "themes" if you will are: mountain, town, sea, neighborhood, club.  The course gives us both intimate and expansive senses of these themes.  It's over the mountain and down, it's to the sea and back, it's to and from the town and the neighborhood.  At Elie we run a lot of errands, ferrying our golf balls here and there.  In the middle, we take a stroll along the beach!

It's a neat piece of property, starting with the mountain over which the 1st, 2nd and 3rd holes are played. The use of the mountain on the 2nd provides a total depth-perception discombobulator. It's a long way up! Bunkers left and right at the 215 mark must do a lot of business for those who "prudently" choose to lay up.

From there we pass by -- some of us unfortunately visit as well -- the town of Earlsferry to the left of the 4th, 5th and 6th holes.

The 6th gives us a peek at the Firth of Forth and the seaside stretch of holes to come, but for now we turn back for our first visit with the neighborhood on the other side of the course.  So we head up the interior of the property, very much aware we are playing literally through a neighborhood.  Those who fail to appreciate this will come to appreciate this should their tee ball on 8 find the narrow gravel road passing through the course -- or their approach be forced to negotiate traffic.

(During our morning round a Royal Mail truck passed through.  The golfer's instinct to hit the "range-ball picker" ("Manchurian Candidate," golf version) must be overcome -- one player in our group failed lead the picker properly and missed by a good 20 yards. The better for us!)

Come the 10th and Elie's routing takes us down to the sea.  It's an up and over hole and the walk down to the firth is inspiring.  A turn along the coast comes at the 11th, and here I have a question: is anyone reminded here of the excellent 5th and 6th holes at New South Wales? Elie is like a protean, shorter version of those two holes and while no one would say they are identical twins, perhaps they are fraternal twins.

But there the similarity stops, for New South Wales turns inland where Elie gives us two excellent par 4s along the firth, the 12th and 13th.  An inspiring vista stretches out: the firth on the left, headlands beyond, and a series of greens and tees along the left.

Like any trip to the beach, this stroll has a communal feel to it: as we walk up we pass friends on the 10th tee, 6th green, 7th tee, 9th green, 16th tee, 15th green, and lastly 13th tee.  If you can muster no conversations, no friendly waves -- uh, no "Fore!"s -- along this walk, may I suggest therapy?  More likely, however, your reticence is down not to a Hoganesque personality but a Hoganesque game: you have hooked your tee shots on each hole, and badly!

14 turns us away from the sea, 15 gives us one last peek (have we forgotten something at the beach?), and then it's head for home. 16 takes us to the neighborhood and from there it's off to the club.

17 and 18 both are excellent match-play deciders, and in opposite ways: 17 is a survival hole of sorts, 439 yards with bunkers pinched into the driving zone and brutal, brutal rough (at least in June!) lining both sides.  And 18 is a gambler's dream: potentially driveable, but with ruin waiting for us in two spots.  First in the two bunkers short of the green, and second the green itself, a massive, 37-yards deep affair.

I have a few pics and will post later!

Mark
« Last Edit: June 21, 2008, 12:23:43 PM by Mark Bourgeois »

Mark Pearce

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Re: Golf House Club (Elie)
« Reply #1 on: June 21, 2008, 01:19:33 PM »
Mark,

I think you capture the feel of Elie well, though am surprised you don't mention the view from the 2nd green/3rd tee as you stand atop the mountain and look down over the remainder of the course, Earlsferry and the firth.  A view I'll never tire of.
In June I will be riding the first three stages of this year's Tour de France route for charity.  630km (394 miles) in three days, with 7800m (25,600 feet) of climbing for the William Wates Memorial Trust (https://rideleloop.org/the-charity/) which supports underprivileged young people.

Bill_McBride

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Re: Golf House Club (Elie)
« Reply #2 on: June 21, 2008, 01:24:26 PM »
Elie is very cool indeed, with a great assortment of half-par holes. 

#2 is definitely driveable - Lloyd Cole did so in our fourball match, driving up the hill onto the skyline green, a two putt birdie the reward.

#6 is potentially driveable, around 300 yards over the blind hill and downhill sharply, but here we find cross bunkers.

#7 is very driveable at 252 yards blind uphill  8).  Even I, the short hitter of the group, found my ball on the putting green, although in three putt range given my failure to read the uphill nature of the putt.  >:(

#10 is very driveable at around 300 yards, again over the hill blind, with ruins on the left and a steep fall off to the right, a lovely hole with the Firth of Forth in view to the right and behind the green.

#15 could be driven, another over the hill blind tee shot, but it would take a lang whang.  Given the very F&F conditions, not out of range of the long hitters.

I don't know about #18, Mark B must play with different guys than I do, but perhaps it was in the late afternoon with the wind switch to dead behind.  I saw some balls perhaps 50 yards out, and one in the left bunker at about 40 yards.

The half par long holes were very strong but with the F&F conditions, even 466 yards #12 was reached by some with short irons downwind.

I could play Elie a lot more, in fact you could build a vacation trip around a stay in that lovely little village.  It's just half an hour to St Andrews, 15 minutes to Leven and Lundin.  I'm grateful to the organizers of the Buda Cup for including Elie in the rota, that is one of the benefits of this event, playing the wonderful second tier (?) courses you might otherwise bypass.

Lynn_Shackelford

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Re: Golf House Club (Elie)
« Reply #3 on: June 21, 2008, 01:27:31 PM »
It has been many years since I played there.  No question the routing is outstanding.  However don't you think there are too many par 4's?  I wasn't refreshed enough during the round with a change of a par 3 or 5.  I felt I needed more of them.
It was years ago, probably 1986 (I think it cost about $15), and I thought if this course were on the California coast it's views would be considered among the best in the golfing world, and among the most expensive courses to play in the world.  And maybe a few more bunkers?
But it is a course I could play everyday.
It must be kept in mind that the elusive charm of the game suffers as soon as any successful method of standardization is allowed to creep in.  A golf course should never pretend to be, nor is intended to be, an infallible tribunal.
               Tom Simpson

Bill_McBride

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Re: Golf House Club (Elie)
« Reply #4 on: June 21, 2008, 01:33:04 PM »
It has been many years since I played there.  No question the routing is outstanding.  However don't you think there are too many par 4's?  I wasn't refreshed enough during the round with a change of a par 3 or 5.  I felt I needed more of them.
It was years ago, probably 1986 (I think it cost about $15), and I thought if this course were on the California coast it's views would be considered among the best in the golfing world, and among the most expensive courses to play in the world.  And maybe a few more bunkers?
But it is a course I could play everyday.

You didn't really feel the absence of par 5s or the preponderance of par 4s because there was such a variety of par 4s, from 252 yards to 466 yards.  The relatively few bunkers are each extremely well placed, nothing at Elie is wasted.

Mark Bourgeois

Re: Golf House Club (Elie)
« Reply #5 on: June 21, 2008, 02:11:49 PM »
Lynn

I think we are in agreement on the central point: it's a great walk, a feeling of first seeing the property then exploring every corner of it. ("Hey, let's go over there...")

And no its not an every-club-in-the-bag course; I had heard the criticism leveled against it.

One thing I wonder is whether this is more noticeable if playing solo or for a score, rather than a match.

Which game did you play? Playing a match, it didn't seem to matter: there seemed a sufficiently diverse set of challenges and club selection off the tee to avoid a sense of repetition or staleness.

But perhaps I just was taken in by the view....

Mark

Mark Pearce

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Re: Golf House Club (Elie)
« Reply #6 on: June 21, 2008, 03:11:15 PM »
Bill,

15 is indeed driveable, since I have managed that feat at least once in very firm and fast conditions and with a helping right to left wind.

I drove it into the large cross bunker 40 yards short of 18 on Tuesday and with a stronger wind behind (or with a flatter belly) it is definitely reachable, albeit that that will involve finding a way past those bunkers.

I really don't miss par 3s and 5s at Elie, as has been said there are enough 3 1/2s to satisfy.

Elie would, indeed make a great base for a golfing trip to Fife, not least as it has two good pubs serving good real ale and food and the feel of the place, particularly when busy with the Edinburgh and Glasgow summer sets is great.  It's common to see kids as young as 6 wandering around, unaccompanied, with clubs slung over their shoulders, going to or from the 9 hole course adjacent to the Golf House.
In June I will be riding the first three stages of this year's Tour de France route for charity.  630km (394 miles) in three days, with 7800m (25,600 feet) of climbing for the William Wates Memorial Trust (https://rideleloop.org/the-charity/) which supports underprivileged young people.

Lynn_Shackelford

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Re: Golf House Club (Elie)
« Reply #7 on: June 21, 2008, 04:30:40 PM »
If I had a choice of where to "set-up" for a summer in Scotland, I always thought Elie would be my choice.  I remember playing alongside the town and a lady walking by was assisting in my search of a lost ball.  We didn't find it, but it occurred to me how friendly this little town seemed to be.
Again, I haven't played there in 20 years, so the economy of bunkers may be something I would now appreciate.  Also the equipment and ball has changed.  Is it possible it is now a better course for us dubs?

I hope the periscope is still used and I did look at prices for renting summer rooms or homes and it seemed pretty expensive.  I think it has become a summer destination for some of those rich English folks.
It must be kept in mind that the elusive charm of the game suffers as soon as any successful method of standardization is allowed to creep in.  A golf course should never pretend to be, nor is intended to be, an infallible tribunal.
               Tom Simpson

Mark Bourgeois

Re: Golf House Club (Elie)
« Reply #8 on: June 21, 2008, 05:39:19 PM »
Much to the starter's consternation I gave him a firing solution for N Berwick

Chris Kane

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Re: Golf House Club (Elie)
« Reply #9 on: June 21, 2008, 05:45:04 PM »
I hope the periscope is still used and I did look at prices for renting summer rooms or homes and it seemed pretty expensive.  I think it has become a summer destination for some of those rich English folks.

Driving along the Fife coastline, you go through fishing village after fishing village,  Then you get to Elie, and see huge yachts!  One of my flatmates in St Andrews insisted that half the property there is owned by people from London.  Probably an exaggeration, but its certainly different to the surrounding towns (as is the golf club).

Michael Whitaker

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Re: Golf House Club (Elie)
« Reply #10 on: June 21, 2008, 05:49:54 PM »
Not only are there a few 3 1/2's there are a few 4 1/2's as well, depending on the wind. My first try at #1 was dead into a forceful wind and even with a solid drive the hole was definitely a par 5 for me. But, then we turned up the hill for #2 and Lloyd Cole drove the green with a 3-wood! There is a tremendous variety in the playablity of this course based on the wind... maybe more so than any other course I have played.

Elie should be a "don't miss" on anyone's visit to the Kingdom of Fife.
"Solving the paradox of proportionality is the heart of golf architecture."  - Tom Doak (11/20/05)

Bill_McBride

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Re: Golf House Club (Elie)
« Reply #11 on: June 21, 2008, 06:33:50 PM »
I hope the periscope is still used

It surely is, Lynn, here's a photo:



The starter would have no idea where the players ahead were without it.  Here's the view from the first tee!


David Lott

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Re: Golf House Club (Elie)
« Reply #12 on: June 21, 2008, 10:07:42 PM »
First time I played Elie, I was jetlagged and tired. My far more energetic girlfriend was not, so at one point I just lay down at the edge of a fairway as she played vivaciously on. Could not tell you what hole this was. A dog wandered up and kept me company for a while. A group played by, a few nongolfing walkers inquired as to my health and three or four holes later my girlfriend came back into sight, fortunately (for me) still playing alone. I roused myself and played the rest of round with her. Still one of my best days ever on a golf course.
David Lott

Andrew Summerell

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Re: Golf House Club (Elie)
« Reply #13 on: June 22, 2008, 01:11:07 AM »
Mark,

I can understand you seeing the similarities between the 10th at Elie & the 5th at NSW.

I know it’s a cliché, but I love the amount of ½ par holes Elie has. It gives it a real ‘par-less’ quality & allows the course to play different from day to day.

A question that I asked in the ‘Architectural Barometers’ thread a couple of weeks ago was, “Could a course like Elie be successful if it was designed today ?”“Is Elie an architectural barometer indicating an aspect of golf course architecture that is not quite right today ?

Mark Bourgeois

Re: Golf House Club (Elie)
« Reply #14 on: June 22, 2008, 06:26:28 AM »
Nice story, David.

Andrew it would be interesting to know how an architect today would route a course if given that property as a blank slate.  He'd have to make compromises.  Perhaps the biggest issue would be whether he would dumb down the course, particularly the greens and approaches, after being told of Earlsferry's popularity as a holiday spot.

By the way, here's the routing for those keeping score at home:



Some pics:

6th green: the golfer somehow must die his ball at the beginning of the ~5-foot dropoff just past the bunker -- right...




9th green, with 12th fairway beyond



10th tee: every bone in your body makes you aim well left of the marker pole.  This would be a mistake...



10th green; that's the 11th tee beyond



Another look at 10th green, with the fairway tumbling down to the firth



The tee shot to the partially-blind 11th green



13th green, as seen from above: the big dropoff from the green towards the firth not noticeable



15th approach



15th green: a stronger case could be made for the similarities of this hole to NSW 5 (but my original comparison regarded the routing...)


Mark

Tony_Muldoon

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Re: Golf House Club (Elie) New
« Reply #15 on: June 22, 2008, 05:51:35 PM »
Thanks for all the buzz guys.   

Andrew M states that a bad day on the course beats the best day in the office...


Well I had a fantastic result in the office last Monday, yet I can't help thinking....

Deep, deep sigh.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2008, 01:17:22 AM by Tony_Muldoon »
Let's make GCA grate again!

Marty Bonnar

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Re: Golf House Club (Elie)
« Reply #16 on: June 22, 2008, 06:37:31 PM »
Tony,
you were certainly there in our thoughts. At least, I seem to remember thinking: "Where's bloody Muldoon? It's time he bought me a drink!"

Kidding, natch.  ;)

You were more than there in spirit, I can assure you. Next time, mate.

best,
FBD.
The White River runs dark through the heart of the Town,
Washed the people coal-black from the hole in the ground.

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