what's good to play while watching the women's open next week

[Mike Mosely]

What good public courses are there in interlachen or about an  hour away?

[George Pazin]

Contact Dan Kelly and Rick Shefchik - they'll point you in the right direction.

Then go out with them and buy them a beer and send me the bill.

 

[cary lichtenstein]

The Quarry at Giants Ridge, maybe a little further away however

[Dan Kelly]

Very unfortunately, there are no good public courses in Interlachen. I'd settle for a good public 9-holer!

(Just joshin', Mike.)

These are the public courses I'd most highly recommend within an hour's
drive of Interlachen -- in no particular order:

StoneRidge (Bobby Weed; Stillwater)

Chaska Town Course (Art Hills; Chaska)

Keller (some old forgotten public employee; site of two PGA Championships and many St. Paul Opens; St. Paul)

The Wilds (Weiskopf and Morrish; Prior Lake)

Baker National (Medina; Hurdzan)

Rush Creek (Cupp and Fought; Maple Grove)

Troy Burne (Fought and Lehman; Hudson, Wis.)

(Jeff Brauer's courses, including The Quarry at Giants Ridge, are c. 4 hours north)

IM for more info if you want it.

[Tom_Doak]

Dan:  That's a lot of pretty good new public courses, based on the comments I've heard on them all in recent years.  How are they all doing in the marketplace?

[Dan Kelly]

Dan:  That's a lot of pretty good new public courses, based on the comments I've heard on them all in recent years.  How are they all doing in the marketplace?

Tom --

I really don't know.

I've played so little golf in the past couple of years (and I don't cover golf, as either a sport or a business) that I have no clue, really.

None of them has been dumping lots of e-mails on members of the Minnesota Golf Association, offering special rates and other come-ons (except during the early spring and the late fall) -- so maybe they're all doing OK.

I practice fairly regularly at Chaska and Baker National. Chaska always seems pretty busy. Baker National, not so much. Keller -- the one old course on the list -- has always been full when I've been there. (The price is very right.)

But that's just weak anecdotal evidence, and nothing more.

Dan

[Patrick Hodgdon]

I would add Legends Golf Club in Prior Lake (35 mins S of Mpls/St.P) to the top of Dan's list. It's my favorite public within 30-45 mins of Edina (Interlachen).

http://legendsgc.com/

I would also second Dan's suggestion Chaska Town Course (as well as everything else on the list for that matter.) More than a few people prefer it to its neighboring course Hazeltine. It made GolfWeek's top 30 public list someone just posted too.

Another good option is Willingers Golf Club which is another 15-20 mins S of Legends off of I-35 or about an hour from ICC.

http://www.willingersgc.com/

If I were in town I'd love to offer to play with you Mike but I'll be busy getting hitched down in FL next weekend. 

[Dan Kelly]

I'm not a fan of Willingers -- but mostly because they wouldn't honor a rain check 12+ months after they issued it.

I shan't return.

As for Legends: I haven't played it, but another member of this GCA community has told me that it's not at all worth the green fee. I'll let him speak for himself, if he cares to.

(Patrick -- Chaska Town Course made Golfweek's top 30 MUNICIPAL, not top 30 public.)

[John_Conley]

The Quarry at Giants Ridge, maybe a little further away however

There is no maybe about it. 

Meadowbrook actually butts up to Interlachen.  It is one of the five Minneapolis city courses.  It is a very good municipal known for its hills.  Lots of blind shots, which some don't like.

Braemar, also in Edina, hosted a Tour event in the late 60s and a women's APL around 1980.  It isn't going to knock your socks off but it is a solid course.

Stone Ridge, Chaska (2nd site for US Am when it was at Hazeltine), Rush Creek (APL won by Ryan Moore and also an LPGA site), the Wilds, Baker National, and Legends are your best bets for area daily fees.  One post mentions the value (or lack thereof) at Legends...worth noting that rates have fallen this year and it is more like $75 instead of three figs.

Some others that are interesting are Willinger's, Stonebrook, and Fox Hollow.

Minneapolis has very good municipal courses.  Hiawatha, Francis A. Gross (which I think held a PGA Championship), Columbia, and Wirth are the other four after Meadowbrook.  You'd probably like Hiawatha.

Owatonna Country Club is a private course about an hour south, but they'll probably let you on if you contact them and say you are in town for the Open. 

Have fun.

[Dan Kelly]

Meadowbrook actually butts up to Interlachen.  It is one of the five Minneapolis city courses.  It is a very good municipal known for its hills.  Lots of blind shots, which some don't like.

Braemar, also in Edina, hosted a Tour event in the late 60s and a women's APL around 1980.  It isn't going to knock your socks off but it is a solid course.

Next week, unless I'm misinformed, Meadowbrook is going to be known for the cars parked on its hills.

And as for Braemar: It's not going to knock your socks off -- but it might knock your hearing out. (Beware the left rough on 5!) And if you end up going to Braemar: Don't allow them to put you out on Holes 19-27. A terrible, terrible addition to what John rightly calls a solid course.

(Gross, in Minneapolis, I like. It didn't host a PGA; I believe it hosted a Publinx. But I like Keller -- which hosted two PGAs -- much more.)

[John_Conley]

Of course Dan is right.  Keller held the 1932 PGA.  I had a real good round there once but never thought it was anything special. 

From Gross's web page:

Gross National Golf Club opened in 1925. It has gently rolling hills with elevated tees and greens. We rent riding carts, although many golfers enjoy walking the course. There are three sets of tee-markers on each hole to challenge all skill levels. It is a mature course with lots of old trees.

It hosted the 1964 USGA National Publinks Championship. The course’s location makes it readily accessible from Minneapolis or St. Paul with Interstate 35W marking the southern boundary.

A “great layout” is how most customers describe the course; another reason Gross has been considered “The People’s Choice'' for years.

[Dan Kelly]

Keller held the 1932 PGA. 

And the 1954 PGA.

And, as the Google has just reminded me the 1949 Western Open.

And the St. Paul Open from 1930 to 1968.

And the LPGA's Patty Berg Classic from 1973-1980.

[Rick Shefchik]

Tom Doak,

To add to the anecdotal evidence about the new Twin Cities publics, I've been receiving a steady stream of e-mails from StoneRidge this spring offering a $20 discount on their normal $79 greens fee.

Rates have not increased at any of the high-end publics over the past five years; Rush Creek is holding its top primetime rate at $105, but offering lots of off-peak and cardholder deals that bring the rates down to the $52-$79 range.

The Wilds standard green fee is down to $80 from $100 when the course first opened. Same with Troy Burne. The high-end publics in the Twin Cities wanted to establish $100 as the going rate for a round of golf at their CCFADs, but the market wouldn't bear it.

Having said that, the courses I mentioned seem to be doing okay with the belt-tightening, and are outstanding values.

[Scott Szabo]

Contact Dan Kelly and Rick Shefchik - they'll point you in the right direction.

Then go out with them and buy them a beer and send me the bill.

 

How could anyone pass up an offer like that? 

[Mike Mosely]

Can you tell me more about keller?

[John_Conley]

Can you tell me more about keller?

It is a Ramsay County course, not to be confused with a St. Paul municipal like nearby Phalen.

The course is okay.  Some like it a lot.  It held lots of LPGA events, the St. Paul Open when it was a Tour stop, and it turns out two PGA Championships.

A little short back 20 years ago, it must still be that way by modern standards.  I remember it being in good condition and nice.  It is probably 45 minutes from Interlachen.

Edina is a SW suburb of Minneapolis and Keller is around the N side of St. Paul.

What more do you want to know?  I'm not aware of any famed architect and dare say if it didn't have that history you would never guess as much after playing it.

[Rick Shefchik]

I like Keller, especially for the price, but it has two of the Stupidest Trees you'll ever encounter -- big, spreading, leafy shade trees directly in front of the 4th and 17 greens.

Some people find them quirky and fun. I'd take a chainsaw to both of them tomorrow.

[Dan Kelly]

I like Keller, especially for the price, but it has two of the Stupidest Trees you'll ever encounter -- big, spreading, leafy shade trees directly in front of the 4th and 17 greens.

Some people find them quirky and fun. I'd take a chainsaw to both of them tomorrow.

The one on 17: Chainsaw special. Agreed.

The one in front of 4 (a mid- to short-iron par-3 with a wide, relatively shallow green): It's a beautiful, beautiful tree, and there's no need to chop it down.

Here's what there's a need to do:

Get rid of the front bunker. Mow the grass to fairway height all the way up to the green. Let those who can play over it play over it, if they dare; let those who can't, play under it. (The bunker and the long grass prevent the Under shot now.)

You could turn that tree into one of the all-time-great "strategic" trees, if you got rid of the bunker and allowed the ground game. And when it falls, to blight or lightning, build a new front-side bunker.

[Dan Kelly]

What more do you want to know?  I'm not aware of any famed architect and dare say if it didn't have that history you would never guess as much after playing it.

Not fair, John.

No, it doesn't have a famed architect.

It's just a very good municipal course, for under about $35.

I think you should play it again sometime.

[John_Conley]

I think you should play it again sometime.

Probably won't.  There are things on my list like Troy Burne and Somerby that I haven't seen.

The Twin Cities has some excellent private clubs and lots of enjoyable daily-fee options.  What it doesn't have are a bunch of top-notch public-access courses that visitors are eager to play.

Keller's fine.  4 on the Doak Scale, agreed?

[Rick Shefchik]

I would maybe nudge that to a 5, with consideration for tradition/history.

And I also agree with Dan about the tree in front of the green on #4. We've talked about that before, and his idea is brilliant. But I doubt it will ever happen. Something needs to be done, and if they won't do what Dan suggests (and it would be so cool if they would), then the tree must go.

[John_Conley]

I would maybe nudge that to a 5, with consideration for tradition/history.

4. A modestly interesting course, with a couple of distinctive holes among the 18, or at least some scenic interest and decent golf. Also reserved for some very good courses that are much too short and narrow to provide sufficient challenge for accomplished golfers.

5. Well above the average golf course, but the middle of my scale. A good course to choose if you’re in the vicinity and looking for a game, but don’t spend another day away from home to see it, unless your home is in Alaska.

I don't consider Keller "well above the average golf course" and stick to my 4.  You give it a 5.  We're not far apart in our opinion of Keller.

Stone Ridge clearly rates a 5 for me.

[Paul Payne]

Aside from the odd tree Keller is a really great old course. Not Long but some creative shots. I would also recommend Chaska (although I think Art took a tip from Keller for the tree placement on number 3).

Most others on the list are good suggestions however IMO I would stay clear of the Wilds (absolutely choked off with housing development) and Rush Creek (extremely bland and uninspired for the price). Willingers is pretty nice but has a few seriously kooky holes.

A few others to consider are Edinburgh, (RTJ) although it gets busy and also has a lot of housing on it. Pioneer Creek just west of the city, a good layout and a fair price, (another Joel Goldstrand, our local GCA workaholic), nary a house in sight. And the Jewel, a Hale Irwin course about an hour south of the city is a very nice new course. Play before the houses arrive.

Another road trip worthy course is Dacotah Ridge a very good Reese course about 1 1/2 hours west of the city. There is a casino there to possibly make the lure of the road that much more compelling.

Enjoy your stay in the cities. If you plan on heading downtown let me know if you'd like tips on dinning. I am a certified food junkie.

Cheers.

[John_Conley]

A few others to consider are Edinburgh, (RTJ) although it gets busy and also has a lot of housing on it. Pioneer Creek just west of the city, a good layout and a fair price, (another Joel Goldstrand, our local GCA workaholic), nary a house in sight. And the Jewel, a Hale Irwin course about an hour south of the city is a very nice new course. Play before the houses arrive.

Paul, I used to play a lot at Timber Creek when I was in college.  I know Pioneer Creek is just N of it across from Windsong.  Heard good things but I haven't seen it.  If the bar is lowered a tad to "fun and affordable" I'll suggest Island View in Waconia (always loved that place) and Fox Hollow in Rogers (Goldstrand).

Downtown dining?  You gotta be kidding!  If he's at the Open he needs to hit Bunny's and have the Walleye.

[Dan Kelly]

... I would stay clear of the Wilds (absolutely choked off with housing development) and Rush Creek (extremely bland and uninspired for the price).

... Another road trip worthy course is Dacotah Ridge a very good Reese course about 1 1/2 hours west of the city.

Paul --

This is what makes horse races, I guess.

The Wilds "choked off" with housing? You and I must have VASTLY different ideas of "choked off." I can think of only a single shot at the Wilds in which the housing plays even the most minimal role. (The second shot on No. 2. Oh, and I suppose, maybe the second shot on No. 6.) I've probably played 10 rounds there, and I think the only ball I've seen go out of bounds there was a 2nd shot on No. 2.. Where do you see the housing playing any role at all -- other than aesthetic? (Yes, I'd prefer to have no housing in sight -- but without the housing, I'm pretty sure there'd be no golf course there.)

Rush Creek, I'll grant you, isn't the most inspired golf course I've ever played -- but "extremely bland and uninspired" seems unduly harsh. I don't know about the price; I think they have a good twilight rate, at least.

I'm pretty sure Keller and Chaska are better values, if it's value a person is looking for.

I've played the Wilds only during the "pay the temperature" seasons -- so I'd agree with you that the Wilds isn't a great value, at list price. But it's a good golf course, and sometimes very good.

As for Dacotah Ridge: A golf-course architect who occasionally posts here told me he thought it was just about the dullest golf course he'd ever played.

To each his own!